Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I actually played with one at Lowes the other day. Overall, I liked the design, but the foam pre-filter is crap compared to Dyson's recent pre-filter design (which is also featured on the Hoover Platinum Cyclonic and Panasonic/Kenmore canisters...but I suppose its washable HEPA filter makes up for it. http://smallappliances.electroluxusa.com/ Highlights: - 14 foot cleaning reach - LED headlight - "Ball-like" swivel action - Metal Soleplate - 5 year warranty - $299

Mike_W wrote:

No, quite the contrary:  You're wrong.  I SAID I PREFER THE SWIVEL AND TWIST OVER THE ANCIENT DYSON BALL.  Now, seems I recall when dyson launced its ball model in 2005 YOU SAID it was styled after the old fashioned metal uprights of years ago.  Am I right?   Who wants an old fashioned looking vacuum that sits on a ball and costs $500-$600.  Except perhaps you.  Tho, from what you have said here you really don't.  Just arguing that the ball has a smaller radius to turn and easier for persons with bad wrists to use.  Now, those are both excellent reasons to buy a full sized upright rather than a lightweight. 

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:
Interesting point - the Hoover Slalom also suffers from the same problem plus the fact that its so poorly made, it doesn't always lock up when you put the handle upwards and store away - or use the hose.

My mother is a professional pianist and has been a pianist for most of her life, aside from playing the church organ which she now feels is better suited for her. Why? She broke her hand in three places, had to give up playing piano when she was 45. She's now in her late 70's. She loves the Miele stick vac because it is so lightweight but it hurts her wrist when she turns it - another design where the motor is located at the top but yet is bottom heavy because of the design. She couldn't stand the Slalom and it also hurt her wrist. She liked the Sebo X1 because it adjusted automatically to the floor but it would take her ages to slowly do carpets compared to me whizzing around with the Felix. She likes the Felix a lot - finds it pain free when moving, even using the traditional handle. The Felix is also "top heavy" but the electronics support the need to induce a little self-mechanised movement - evident from the difference where you switch off the floor head and find that it just doesn't move as easily.

The best vacuum she "ever had" was the Oreck XL but the noise killed her senses - and I've often wondered if SEBO would engineer a similar handle - it certainly does ease wrist pain. Another model she loved was the Electrolux Ergorapido/Pronto because it was lightweight, had a swivel built in, yet the rubberised gripped handle was good enough for her to ease her pain. I'm considering buying the improved one - knowingly from our previous model - it would help her out as well (even though it does a minimal job) as me doing secondary cleaning up after her.

My mother however doesn't like cylinders bar the SEBO k3 with the similar Felix floor head - not for the fact that you have to pull the machine after you - but for the fact that despite lightweight tubing, turning a tube side to side is painful with a suction only floor head added or a heavier air driven turbo brush - unless it has a "proper" handle that doesn't either feel too blocky or forces you to lay your hand out - a problem that the standard "bent" handle of the Miele cylinders induces, alleviated somewhat better by the Deluxe ones fitted to higher end S5 models. Again with the SEBO power head fitted, there is less stress to her hands when its forever powering the need to push a lot in front of her.

Therefore, my question is - does the Nimble have an inducing self-mechanism of moving forward by its own - or not?

vacmanuk wrote:
I am not quite sure what you are asking, but the machine is not self propelled. The Nimble is heavy, but there is slight forward movement w/the help of the longer, aggressive brushroll bristles and human assist.  What I call the "handle-weight" is heavy and I believe this would be hard for a much older person to use, IMHO.  Even w/a nicely designed looped handle, the Nimble would be hard to use.  The user must turn the upper portion of the upright, using your wrist, to turn the cleaning head slightly.  It is much harder than SEBO.

I have always said that looped handle uprights are better to use.  I even said, eventhough I do not ORECK uprights are the best, David Oreck got it right w/the handle.  I find you do not have to grip the handle in order to push it forward.  With looped handles, very little gripping is involved.  I have tested this out with many a upright.  Having a handle, which must be gripped is more work.  I could take a Panasonic/Kenmore upright, with looped handle and pull back the machine just using my thumb and pointing finger.  Better looped handles are ones where the handle is bent enough, so that the palm can be used on the forward motion(like ORECK).  This requires little movement.  The only drawback is if there is arthritis in that area.

I do not know if I answered your question or not.

CarmineD wrote:
When it comes to the "twisting/swiveling" feature of a vacuum cleaner and this is usually how a vacuum is sold or promoted as, then yes, dyson wins.  As for what it looks like, well, that is not what I am talking about.  I am not talking about the price.

While I am not sure if I said what you think, but I would not put it passed me to say it looks like vacuum which utilize "bell shaped" cleaning heads.  There is something I remember saying to T.G., Venson, etc. It does not matter how old a vacuums design is, as long as the vacuum  cleaner works.  I think one comment T.G. used was that the Sanitaire uprights were "old fashioned".  That may be true, but it is great at carpet cleaning, low maintenance, and now, better filtration.  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  I thought Royal "all metal" uprights cleaned very well and were old fashioned.  I even have the 4000.  It does have some cons, but what do I always say? "There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner".

I do not get the whole "full sized upright rather than a lightweight" statement.  Not everyone should be using a lightweight vacuum cleaner.  I cannot see everyone using a  HOOVER  Air in a large home, unless it is for quick pick-up.  There are going to be complaints. They are going to complain about having to empty the container constantly.   A Riccar Supralite is great, but maybe someone wants the features of a full sized upright.

Mike_W wrote:

Try reading Vacmanuk's post about his Mother's broken hand and her experiences with vacuums.  [You brought up your wrist problem.]  She likes the ORECK and SEBO [save the ORECK sound and I understand the latest models sold by SEARS may even address the noise problem].  That's the point.  Vacmanuk got it, so did his Mom.  Simple to read and comprehend.  

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:
Thank you for answering the question.

None of SEBO's uprights are self propelled either - they don't involve a mechanism which is geared or mechanised to offer that faciity - yet they surge ahead and feel lighter to the user. Re-thinking the swivel on the Nimble - it looks very much like that of the Miele S7 swivel - i.e.e larger pivotal mechanism joined between bottom of the vacuum where the pre-motor filter would be located and the top of the hood of the upright. SEBO's Felix has a small pivotal neck and thus doesn't require that much turning - compared to Miele & Nimble seen by the photos.

Not all looped handles are the same though - the Oreck impels owners to hold the handle almost dead upright as if they are holding a joy stick when the Oreck upright vac is in use. More modern uprights with a looped handle employ the hand to push down at a flatter angle, also similar to that of the Hoover Freemotion cylinder which lacks a loop but is orthopaedically more comfortable:





Hoover however made the mistake of making the handle flatter despite being more comfortable by "looks," and then adding a heavy clip on tool directly underneath. In practice, it endangers pressure on the side of the hand, thus employing a clenched pose rather than using all bones within the hand equally and putting too much weight on one side of the hand - which is clearly demonstrated in the above photo.

Mike_W wrote:

There may not be the BEST or Perfect vacuum for all BUT surely vacuum makers who make their products better for all persons to use are attempting to defy that statement, which frankly is antiquated and disengenuous.  This AMAZON video is for the HOOVER lightweight bagged upright and dual compact canister.  Consumer Reports has rated this duo as its top rated pick on several occasions and within its top 10 picks on all occasions where it/they are rated and reviewed ALONG with full size uprights.  CR never adds the qualifier that it is a lightweight and only should be considered for quick pick ups and/or in conjunction with a full sized cleaner for home cleaning.  That thinking is stuck in the very old vacuum past.  The vacuum world has changed.  I've chosen the HOOVER vacuum team becuase you and others here have mentioned it in the past favorably.  

ORECK is THE VACUUM maker that has been the leader in the dual vacuums' marketing strategy.  Dave Oreck contradicted this wrong lightweight vacuum thinking when he introed his lightweight upright almost 50 years ago.  Vacuum makers from RICCAR, HOOVER, ELECTROLUX, KENMORE, SEBO, dyson and others followed ORECK's lead.  There is no difference between a full size canister with a power head nozzle and a direct suction lightweight upright [like the ORECK/HOOVER] for cleaning parity on rugs and floors.   

Carmine D.

 

CarmineD wrote:
There is a difference in Oreck and other brands.  The other brands actually remove imbeded dirt.

CarmineD wrote: You see, you are agreeing w/me and then contradicting yourself again.  It is not "antiquated and disengenuous" if it is true.  Manufacturers continue to try improving their product(s).  While they may add an improvement, something else may lack.  I will continue to use that phrase, because it is true.

You are not understanding my statement.  I said-
Mike_W wrote:
This was in response to your "smart" statement, which I could not understand.  I took liberty and responded w/a logical statement.  As anyone can see, I gave a full explanation.  I used the HOOVER Air as one example, as well as the Riccar Supralite.  You chose to pull every lightweight vacuum together and say I have said the same thing about everyone of them.  The Riccar would be fine for a very large home,  but someone will complain that they do not want to run and get a suction-only vacuum, for other vacuuming chores.  What does ORECK do, he puts out the Edge w/an onboard hose.  The only problem is, hose use is only good for small work ilke dust on a baseboard.  The Edge is not perfect or the Best.  Do you understand now? I even stayed in the lightweight category. Again!

Mike_W wrote:

Hopefully you understand now.  If not ask, I'll be happy to assist you just as I do your buddy here HS.

Carmine D.