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maddy4


Joined: Dec 12, 2010
Points: 4

Miele S4 or S5-Air or Power?
Original Message   Dec 12, 2010 5:14 pm
Hi: I'm looking at Mieles. My 1st post - apologies for the length. I've read conflicting info and am confused about the options. I had a vintage electrolux canister for years-no electric head-same brush for floor and rugs. Have a cat: some but not major. (would sometimes get build up in old head that easily pulled out.). Rug cleaning was a little workout, but it okay.  1,200 sq ft dusty city apt,parquet floors, a few very thin pile oriental and Persian (old/not hand knotted) rugs with very short fringe, plus a kilim. Rugs get tracked mostly w/dirt, litter - some, but not huge amts of hair. Floors: typical dust, dirt, some hair.
 
I've read that non-electric miele is fine with pets - others say no. Air-Turbo head is good for oriental rugs - others say no and say not good for pets. Some say electric head for rugs, others say no if any fringe.  In the store, I first looked at an S4 Galaxy with hepa installed, turbo head, parquet twist, and ergo handle. Seemed perfect & on sale for $499 (recently discontinued store exclusive). But then salesman said he recommends low end S5 models over high end S4 -says S5 has more suck power and overall is made better. It did seem stronger when I tested both-wondering why if motors are all the same?  He showed an Airel (combo 450head, elec-upgradeable) and Pisces(ergo, turbo head, parquet twist, hepa, elec-upgradeable).  I sampled the 450-head, he said it can be used on parquet whereas 250-s combo that comes w/some S4s can scratch. When I said "cat" he said pet hair could clog the turbo and i'd likely need to bring it in for unclogging and repair. ugh. But it seems like turbo got the test dirt up better than the 450 head and is easier to push. He said with pet I should consider powerhead...I don't know if I need electric for 3-5 rugs, plus the wand seems heavier and a little more bulky and slightly harder to maneuver-at least compared to the other. My mother's home is filled with a dozen+ rugs like mine and a Maine Coon cat-she has Kenmore, but never uses the electric head that comes with machine-prefers the standard-but maybe Kenmore is different for rugs/hair, and she cleans more often than I do.). My friend w/2 cats one sm rug and wood loves her Polaris, but she cleans frequently and has very small apt.
  • -- Does anyone with oriental rug/wood floor plus pet use and like the non-electric? Which model and head(s)? Is the Turbo head a mistake for my situation? Anyone with a pet use this?   I like the ergo handle (I have bad joints), hepa, parquet twist looks nice for wood and getting into tight places. I like not having to switch heads, but could get used to it if necessary. I'm not sure any one machine has the combo I might end up wanting, so I may need to supplement.
  • -- Should i get the S4 on sale for $499 with lower suck;  and add an 450-s to complete the package?  Is it strong enough?
  • -- Or go with non-elec S5 and add heads/ergo handle?  Is the S5 a better investment? How is it better/different?  
  • -- Or go electric? - which I'm not really feeling right now pricewise, and because it seems like overkill for my situation and like i might park the head and not use it, but will keep an open mind (I don't want the s2)

    [PS. right now my floors aren't sealed and the dirt gets stuck between wood strips so need suck power, but this will change sometime and before sealing I'll likely rent a commercial vac to super clean.

    Most grateful for your advice and experience. 

    Many thanks.

    Maddy

  • This message was modified Dec 12, 2010 by maddy4
    Replies: 4 - 13 of 13Next page of topicsPreviousAllView as Outline
    vacmanuk


    Location: Scotland UK
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Points: 1162

    Re: Miele S4 or S5-Air or Power?
    Reply #4   Dec 13, 2010 2:45 pm
    maddy4 wrote:
     
    Good to know the turbo head can be used on the wood floor too. From your note:---Protected by a lifetime toothed belt, the larger air driven turbo brush is lightweight (around 140g) on the end of the suction pipe and also gives a lighter gliding for use on hard flooring thanks to it's built in changeable slider on the front of the floor head. This lets out air so that the turbo brush is easier to glide as well as using on delicate surfaces---- I  just want to clarify-Is this a description of the standard 205-3 turbo head? Is there only one size turbo head (by "larger air driven turbo brush, do you mean larger compared to combo brush or compared to a smaller version of the turbo, (I found the mini-head, but not a larger version than the 205-3.) Pisces AC info says: The Pisces also comes standard with the air powered Turbo brush to sufficiently clean your area and scatter rugs, so I didn't know if there might be an advanced version that upgrades the "standard."  The salesguy said the hole into the hose on the one he showed me, the 205-3 I think, that's why he felt hair will get trapped or wrap around the bristles),  So good to know I can unscrew it to clear pet hair if needed without having to take it to the shop.
     
    Do you use the combo head?  Note: I had wrong model# in my previous post - the combo  tool that comes with Ariel and that I tested is #550.  The standard 450 has natural bristle only along one side and metal along the other and so it will scratch, whereas my salesguy showed me the 550 with bristle all around and said it is better suited for wooden floor (although seems like parquet twist is safest for delicate and finished wood).  Seems like the US Miele models that feature the turbo, but not combo head, also include the parquet. But maybe that's a marketing thing so they can bump the price and say it's suited for all wooden floors. Do you use the turbo on rugs only?
     
     The S4 and S5 I tested were both without electric power-so I don't know why S5 seemed suckier--maybe it was my imagination- also the salesguy said it has it has stronger suck, but he may have been trying to persuade me to go S5.  Although I loved that the S4 included so much for $500-everything with possible exception of the dual head if the S5 has the larger chassis and bag capacity, given my sq feet (in the 950-1,200 sq ft vincity), seems like I need to go in that direction. I didn't realize S4 was the compact-thought s2 was. Prices for s2 were good, but salespeople in two shops were a little skeptical of longevity and one said she is seeing them returned already for repair. 
     
    If anyone told me I'd be considering $700+ for a vacuum... yikes - way way more than I ever thought I'd spend, but from reviewing posts on this site and Amazon, it seems like in the long run it's cost-effective than replacing every few years - and the Miele traps the nasty air better than cheaper brands.  My sister has had her Kenmore for 15 years and loves it-as does her friend and my mother. That's about $400 with all attachments-so that's an option too. I saw a YouTube comparison of escaping dust from the vacuum, comparing Miele and Kenmore - not sure how legit this was, but Kenmore seems to emit lots. My family lives in the country - but for city-dwellers I might want to trap that nasty air in the tigher-sealed Miele.
     
    Thanks again for your help--very much appreciated.
    Maddy

    Hi Maddy

    I use the turbo brush on rugs and parquet on delicate floors. For vinyl and the limited rooms I have wall to wall carpet, I use the standard 450 floorhead that comes with the S4. However when the floor head on my S571 suddenly gave way after many years of abuse, I bought the bigger 550 S5 floor head that you speak of. It has a stronger action only because it has a much wider suction channel and as your dealer says, it has a whole perimeter "all around" wall of stiff bristles that come down against the 450 floor head that only has the bristles at the front. Whilst it only differs from suction channel sizes and the wall of brushes, I'm not a fan of the 550 floor head because the button release takes a hefty "shove" of the foot to get the brushes up or down and the softer pedal on the lighter 450 is far easier as well as being a lighter and far more compact floor head to use in general. However to minimise the scratching, this is another reason to why I bought the default Parquet brush. My own home is small so the cable length was the least importance - but I've accumulated quite a long list of Miele spares and extra floor heads. I recommend most buyers to get the S5 as it has everything on board compared to the cheaper and smaller S4. The S5 also has a lot more resale value if you ever think about selling it second hand!

    My mum's home is much larger and has a lot more floors to cover which is why I personally bought a SEBO D2 which has just come out in the States. It is fairly more expensive than the Miele vacuums but does everything with just as much efficiency with a much needed longer amount of cable on offer (nearly twice as much cable as the S5!!)

    When it comes to non-branded turbo brushes, you have to take caution though. Miele's main large tools lock onto (as with SEBO) the main suction tubes and handle (the small cleaning tools don't but this isn't much of a hardship as they fit friction fit and rarely come off) so once they're on, they're usually on for life until you unlock them. I've tried "aftermarket" other branded turbo brushes that give as much speed but don't feel as well made, or easier to glide despite having the same air outlet holes or selectors. The Miele STB 205 is well made in general, has an easy to unlock bottom plate for cleaning and for pet hair, the raised hood means less clogging. A lot of the different floor heads I've bought don't always have easy to remove sole plates and most of them need 2 to 4 screws to undo if anything gets clogged. Also they are far from easy to glide and often don't come with lockable buttons to lock onto the Miele tubes. They often come with a plastic adaptor that slides on but can be tricky to take off when you don't need the turbo brush added.

    To be honest though Maddy, when it comes to using the Parquet brush, the tool itself has quite a thick wall of brushes and it can often clog with dust meaning that you have to constantly pick the dust off the brush and push it into the suction channel. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT to any other Parquet brush tool on the market. The Twister you speak of has a shorter amount of brushes and a swivel neck that is designed to go into corners. It can work well if you have wide spaces between appliances and walls, but not worth it really if you don't. It doesn't need as much cleaning though because of the shorter bristles but the Parquet brush has proper horsehair which is softer and kinder to most delicate surfaces such as real mahogany flooring or marble.

    I've actually reviewed a lot of Miele accessories fit for consumer reviews. If you have the time, have a look at the following:

    http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/vacuum-cleaner-accessories/miele-turbobrush-stb-205-2/1166589/
    http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/vacuum-cleaner-accessories/miele-sf-aac-50-active-air-clean-filter/1298535/
    http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/vacuum-cleaner-accessories/miele-sbd-550-3/1202560/
    http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/vacuum-cleaner-accessories/miele-sfd20-flexible-crevice-nozzle/

    Once again if you buy the base model and add "what you need" from EBAY you'll still be under guarantee for having bought the basic machine rather than be pressured to buy a specific model from Miele's dealers. However I'm not too sure if the U.S have the same "cost optional" 10 year guarantee that is available on selected models, so it is well worth considering to ask the dealer what guarantees you are actually able to get.

    Hope this is all helpful to you. FINAL LINE; I wouldn't recommend buying any other turbo brush tool other than the Miele ones. Miele also make a "mini" stair cleaning tool (but it doesn't hide on the machine) and goes under the model name/number Miele STB 101
    maddy4


    Joined: Dec 12, 2010
    Points: 4

    Re: Miele S4 or S5-Air or Power?
    Reply #5   Dec 15, 2010 8:57 am
     
    Thanks Vac man. You are a rock star of vacuum cleaner information!!  I appreciate the great advice and  I enjoyed reading your helpful reviews. 
     
    I realize i have to really scrutinize ebay photos and posts-of course true of everything on ebay. Some items with fabulously low prices are cleverly listed so they appear to be Miele brand, but are really after-market that fit Miele machines.  Makes sense to buy only Miele brand for most tools.  Right now the  Miele brand accessories are at or above the dealer price.  Miele Hepa # you shared is happily $20 less than retail, but the more substantial items are pricey .   I'll keep watching  for the deals -.since I know I want parquet  and turbo tools, I will probably wait to find the accessory deal on ebay before buying the base vacuum from my dealer. That way I'll know which base model configuration is going to be most-cost effective.  Ultimately, I will have to decide s4 or s5..   S5 makes a lot of sense from your suggestions.  S4 pros:  with my old vac i rarely if ever used the onboard accessories, so I'd likely park those, and I always used a long extension cord since I'm lazy, so i'd do that again with either model.   So for me it's s5 bag size and resale, vs. lower cost and lighter weight - and in an apt.  the slightly smaller size works for maneuvering into smaller spaces.  I'll have to take the plunge soon - the dust is building!  
     
    Most frustrating is that on the Miele UK site prices are significantly lower than in the states - e.g.,  Turbo Head 205-3 = 34 GBP, ($54 US).   Miele USA charges $129!     Unfortunately, Miele U.K  does not deliver to the States.  And the vacuums: the Miele S5211 =  229.99GBP ($360US).  In the US, its $519.  I know we use different wattage, but it's the same Miele machine. Yeesh.
    I think in the states the motor is under warranty for 7 years - machine parts, accessories, and labor - 1 year. 
    Many thanks.
    Maddy
    This message was modified Dec 15, 2010 by maddy4
    RAD1


    Joined: Dec 6, 2008
    Points: 17

    Re: Miele S4 or S5-Air or Power?
    Reply #6   Dec 15, 2010 9:49 am
    Hi there Maddy, et al -
    Great wealth of information has been provided to you ... Can I ask why your dealer hasn't shown you the Miele S2 line? Electrobrush models for both $500 and $600 range... Just thought I would let you know that they are available as well - more or less as an "intro" to the Miele Brand (same motors as the S4 and S5  to boot!!)
    Lucky1


    Joined: Jan 2, 2008
    Points: 271

    Re: Miele S4 or S5-Air or Power?
    Reply #7   Dec 15, 2010 1:12 pm
    Maddy First off let me say I'm a dealer so you may not want to listen to my advice. LOL First off I HIGHLY recommend the Powerhead over the Turbo. My demo turbo is always in need of attention. It hates sand/grit and after a year or so it will hate hair. If you know vacuums and/or have the time to maintain them you might like the turbo. I don't. If you only had 2-3 area rugs and no pets I would then recommend the turbo. The S4 is an amazingly well constructed machine I'm not sure why your dealer doesn't think so...unless he's purposely trying to move you to a higher pricepoint. On all that I have tested, the suction equals the S5. I would recommend the Libra at $829 (average IN STORE Price). It has everything you want, Sealed HEPA System, Powerhead, Swivel Floor brush, Large Bag, Well Made, Tools on board and no need to continue shopping for add ons. Unless your once again into the whole vacuum thing or love the thrill of bargain shopping, hunting for bargains on tools, filters, bags, etc is really a waste of time vs the amount of savings in return. Heck your willing to pay extra at the allergy club online instead of a your local vac shop. Next, if price were an issue, I'd get the S2 Delphi and then find the add on bargains.
    vacomatic


    Joined: Jul 26, 2007
    Points: 649

    Re: Miele S4 or S5-Air or Power?
    Reply #8   Dec 15, 2010 11:58 pm
    My brief experience with Miele turbo brushes is they are relatively quiet compared to the competition, but bog down easily and can stall out on carpeting.  Better to go electric.

    Miele offers two different electric Powerheads, the 217 and more expensive234/236 series. 
    The 217 is smaller, lighter, and has longer, softer bristles.  It's a good all around powered brush but so far only manages a "good" for rugs from the Consumers Union tests of Miele cannisters.
    The 234/236 has headlight, is wider, heavier, has 5 height adjustments.  Consumers Union's never tested it but for me it's better on rugs and not so good on bare floors than the 217,

    The S5's bigger bag means you can go longer between bag changes, but the vacuum will be a little larger, heavier and more expensive.

    Good luck!
    Venson


    Joined: Jul 23, 2007
    Points: 1900

    Re: Miele S4 or S5-Air or Power?
    Reply #9   Dec 16, 2010 6:00 am
    vacomatic wrote:
    My brief experience with Miele turbo brushes is they are relatively quiet compared to the competition, but bog down easily and can stall out on carpeting.  Better to go electric.

    Miele offers two different electric Powerheads, the 217 and more expensive234/236 series. 
    The 217 is smaller, lighter, and has longer, softer bristles.  It's a good all around powered brush but so far only manages a "good" for rugs from the Consumers Union tests of Miele cannisters.
    The 234/236 has headlight, is wider, heavier, has 5 height adjustments.  Consumers Union's never tested it but for me it's better on rugs and not so good on bare floors than the 217,

    The S5's bigger bag means you can go longer between bag changes, but the vacuum will be a little larger, heavier and more expensive.

    Good luck!

    Hi,

    Just to make mention, there is now the SEB228 power nozzle.  The housing design has been altered but it appears to have all the fetures of the top of the line PN except the flourescent headlight is gone.  The Miele "stoe" is offering it  for $209.  I have only seen this on Miele shop-online pages and have no idea when it will start to sell with canisters.

    http://www.mielestore.com/stores/miele/buy_online/item_details.aspx?product_category_id=1&product_group_id=1&product_subgroup_id=1&item_id=267&product_type=ACC&item_number=

    Venson

    vacmanuk


    Location: Scotland UK
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Points: 1162

    Re: Miele S4 or S5-Air or Power?
    Reply #10   Dec 16, 2010 7:14 am
    Venson wrote:
    Hi,

    Just to make mention, there is now the SEB228 power nozzle.  The housing design has been altered but it appears to have all the fetures of the top of the line PN except the flourescent headlight is gone.  The Miele "stoe" is offering it  for $209.  I have only seen this on Miele shop-online pages and have no idea when it will start to sell with canisters.

    http://www.mielestore.com/stores/miele/buy_online/item_details.aspx?product_category_id=1&product_group_id=1&product_subgroup_id=1&item_id=267&product_type=ACC&item_number=

    Venson


    What did I tell you Maddy? There would be different opinions - and that's good but i BET You never expected such a huge response before - if only, all things in life were as valued making all kinds of other purchases! However, Guys - Maddy wants a bargain and doesn't want to feel pushed to buy expensive - see previous posts.

    The Miele S5 UK is different and you'd have to use a transformer to use it each time if you bought it from the UK to be shipped to the US. This applies to any UK appliance that has a different voltage.

    As for the S2, Lucky - Maddy has already been made aware of the S2's poor reliability - not from me but from the dealer that Maddy has gone to.

    When it comes to dealing with precious rugs et al I've only ever used the air driven turbo brush. The electric heads have a motor all of their own that powers up including the motor suction from the vacuum. Though similar, the electric heads are heavier whilst the larger turbo brush is lighter. Granted the air driven one will clog - but then so do powered motor heads - and both have easy to remove screws on the base plate to clean the brush from clogs.

    I must admit it's not easy being a pet owner when it comes to cleaning up animals that moult. My SEBO Felix & Sebo uprights deals with that quite effectively, but Maddy would find it hard to buy a Felix or X/Windsor Sensor on the amount of money she is prepared to pay out and not being able to clean hard flooring at the same time unless she considers the Felix upright with the additional parquet brush changeover.
    CarmineD


    Joined: Dec 31, 2007
    Points: 5894

    Re: Miele S4 or S5-Air or Power?
    Reply #11   Dec 16, 2010 7:58 am
    Maddy:

    I would argue the case that you buy the best MIELE cann you can afford right now.  Recommending an electric P/N over the air turbine.  Why?  In a few months/and even more likely longer, the value/purchasing power of your current money will get you less [perhaps significantly so].  With the current MIELE inventory for sale, you'll get the most bang for your buck not just now but well into the near and distant future.  Maybe you're buying more than you need right now, but not for future.  You mentioned "investment."  As an investment if your needs change in the future, by upgrading your wants now, you're ready for whatever happens in the future cleaning wise. 

    Don't have to be concerned about electric P/N on delicate carpeting, just adjust the suction power on the MIELE S5 to compensate.  Simple solution.

    Carmine D.

    maddy4


    Joined: Dec 12, 2010
    Points: 4

    Re: Miele S4 or S5-Air or Power?
    Reply #12   Dec 16, 2010 8:42 am
     
    Thanks all for weighing in.  I'm fascinated about how much there is to know and all the nuances of vacuum cleaning-and can't thank you enough for taking the time to respond. (And Lucky, I absolutely appreciate insights from a dealer!)  I was leaning toward air models since I'm used to that having owned an electrolux canister and kind of like the simplicity of the air models. I read many raves on Amazon from Neptune s4212 buyers using turbo with shedding dogs/cats living in apts larger than mine (not sure if they are in the honeymoon phase though). And a friend with 2 pets wants to marry her Polaris.  But I hear you all on the clogging hair and grit in the Turbo pipes issue.  The electric head certainly cleaned up the sample rug brilliantly, but I was a little worried about electric harming my very thin antique rugs-so good to know powering down is the key. The electric wand seemed heavy and clunky compared to what I'm used to but I'm willing to grow. I'll look at electric more closely this weekend. Family members (much more fastidious about dust and hair than I am) never use the electric head that comes with their brand.  You're noting clogging on the turbo head though -- I don't know what kind of non-electric head comes with theirs (Kenmore)-might have a different construction because they have pets and grit, but no clogs. And maybe their electric head is more of a pain to take off/put on too--not sure, just know they have option to use either, but use air only. Probably not a fair comparison-Miele/Kenmore.
    Re: the s2s: Interesting:Two dealers recommended the 4 or 5 over the 2-both have the S2 Titan in their line up which costs more than the S4s they showed. Pointed out that the inside is a little less sturdy, the dial on the hood doesn't click into place, etc. One said she's already seeing a few sent back for repair. But that's just from two -I'm sure there are happy buyers who own it and love it. Also, I think I read somewhere that all Miele's are "sealed system" canisters, but the Miele site lists that S2 Titan and Delphi canister construction is a "clean air" system. The S4 and 5s are "sealed." I'm not sure how much difference this makes or how it affects the vacuuming experience.  But since I live in a big city, if I have the option I think I prefer to trap toxins inside of the machine as much as possible - if in fact that's what that means. I probably breathe more toxic stuff in the street or office, but I can't have my little cat's lungs taking in nasty air if I can help it!  (it's her house, I just live here).
     
    PS - Lucky, I love the online options and information at sites like allergyclub, but I plan to do the buying from a dealer who has a small business and huge patience. with the uninitiated like me.  I like to support local establishments whenever possible.  However, if I'm ever in the UK, I'm going to shop for some compatible Miele vac accessories!
     
    Thanks again all for your input. Your advice and experience is really helpful.
    Maddy.
    This message was modified Dec 16, 2010 by maddy4
    CarmineD


    Joined: Dec 31, 2007
    Points: 5894

    Re: Miele S4 or S5-Air or Power?
    Reply #13   Dec 17, 2010 1:27 pm
    Maddy,  Whatever you buy in the MIELE canister line, electric P/N or air, compact or full size, you'll be pleased and they will do the job superbly.  You can't make a mistake or go wrong.  IMMER BSSER.

    Carmine D.

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