Upright wanted--Hoover? Original Message May 13, 2010 3:21 pm
I am interested in buying an upright vacuum, bagged, and I am willing to spend up to, say, $350. It will be used, not heavily, by an older woman who has a shedding cat and is not mechanically apt. A longish cord and an attachment for a linoleum floor would be a plus. I'll take any suggestion, but in the absence of any I am looking at a Hoover UH30010COM Platinum Lightweight Bagged Upright Vacuum Cleaner with Canister, which is sold on Amazon. My concern with Hoovers in general is that according to CR they are highly repair prone. Anybody have experience with this model in particular, recent experience with Hoovers in general, or any other suggestions?
Re: Upright wanted--Hoover? Reply #45 May 20, 2010 7:29 am
CR over recent years typically tests and rates big box store brands more often than the indy and d-t-d brands. I opine because more vacuum buyers gravitate toward these brands and models with their pervasiveness in all the big box stores. Usual price ranges for these big box brand vacuums are $50-$250. Exception is dyson. If vacuum buyers are more discerning, and have budgets in the $250-$350 and more for their vacuum purchases, local vacuum stores are the best source of brands, models.
It's not about a one time vacuum purchase, it's about a business relationship. CR doesn't look at it that way and sadly probablt can't. Most vacuum buyers don't. CR caters to the mass marketed brands and models. For these reasons, in addition to the reasons already provided, makes it a guide not the gospel.
If my vacuum can remove even one spec of dirt that yours misses, then mine is better than yours - even if there's no proof that mine would have picked up as much dirt as yours...
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 397
Re: Upright wanted--Hoover? Reply #48 May 20, 2010 1:14 pm
Mike_W wrote:
I will say it again, CR should only be used as a way to compare some vacuum cleaner’s features.For countless years, I have found evaluations inaccurate.These have been mentioned in past years, like saying one machine made by a manufacturer “feels heavier” than the same machine under a different brand name.I have read comments from others, who could not understand why their vacuum scored low.I have also heard the same thing when people post comments on CR’s website.There are inaccuracies.
Severus,it is fine if you think CR is good reading. I think it is quite funny reading sometimes myself.I read it, but I do not read it for the same reasons you might.I need to know what they are printing in regards to vacuum cleaners, so that I can comment when someone says a particular machine was highly rated.Or, if a vacuum cleaner did badly in the ratings.Vacuum enthusiasts wait in anticipation of the vacuum issue.I noticed that you were the first to post a thread on its arrival.
A vacuum salesman/repairman should not be using CR for their business.What I mean by that is that they should not be following what CR recommends, to promote their business.Look at it this way, hypothetically, CR evaluates vacuum cleaners and the top choice is Aerus.You, the Aerus salesman tell your customers,“Look, CR even promotes the Aerus machine as the number one choice.They know what they are talking about.What a great magazine.”A year goes by and CR does not give a favorable evaluation of the same Aerus.The salesman then says CR magazine is a worthless piece of junk.The same customers have heard the salesman after both CR issues.What is the customer to believe?The customer is going to think the salesman does not know much about vacuum cleaners, or his product, if he has to rely on CR to sell or back up his product.A good vac salesman will be able to use his knowledge to sell.
If a salesman is selling a product, he should tell someone about the product and not that CR rates it “number two” or “thirty”.The only time that I have ever used CR’s scores is to use it against someone.It happened on one of the vacuum forums, when a person said they follow CR religiously.That person put down one product and exalted another.I showed that person the one that was put down was rated higher than her praised one.
Carmine, only using a few samples limits choices when shopping for a vacuum cleaner. We are talking vacuum cleaners in the U.S. and not the world.CR is a U.S. publication.What is worse, Good Housekeeping usually has a smaller selection.For the longest times, people did not know what a Riccar or Simplicity was.I highly promoted these two brands, because they were durable, good quality, good performing machines.Yet CR did not always test these brands until more and more people heard about them.
Carmine, not everyone knows that “experts in the field are the final and best source of advice”.That is why they turn to CR and shop at big box stores. BTW, not everyone is an expert.That is why people should visit a few places and not just one.
Certainly you have a different motivation for reading it than I do, given that you are in the business and I am a consumer. I would agree with you that it is foolish to promote CR rankings. Rankings depend on whose included and who isn't. However, the total scores and individual scores are invariant to who's included. Assuming that the tests are relevant to your situation, then they are valid for comparison purposes.
CR tests are valid, fair, and repeatable. They use solid experimental designs that ensure that each vacuum has the same opportunity to perform. Obviously the user reviews are helpful supplements. Based on the CR reviews, I would have no idea that the Dyson DC07 failed on some carpet types. I'm not sure what vacuum would be best if I had deep shag carpeting.
If I had to recommend to a consumer how to use the ratings, I would say to see if the vacuum has an overall score of 61 to 80, in which case its considered a very good vacuum - these are CR's top tiered vacuums. If you have bad allergies, look elsewhere for advice because CR's emissions scores don't discriminate at a level that is helpful.
If you tend to pick up a lot of fine dust, the CR results may be of limited value given that tests are conducted with empty bags. I will leave it to experts to say what vacuums work better on low pile carpeting, berber, and shag, since CR only tests on medium pile cut pile carpeting.
This message was modified May 20, 2010 by Severus
The smart tyrant writes his own story to ensure that it is favorable. The lazy will repeat lines from the book without fact checking.
Re: Upright wanted--Hoover? Reply #49 May 20, 2010 3:34 pm
CR's ratings will be debated forever. However as a not-for-profit organization that I have no memory of hearing of using its position or name for the purpose of self-aggrandizement, I don't recall CR ever consenting to use of its recommendations by vendors in the first place.
Does anyone know if or when Consumer Reports stopped "policing" use of its recommendations by sellers or vending entities to push. product? They usually took such vendors to task or court over it. In past CR highly frowned upon the practice and still does unless policy has been changed.
I had a friend who worked for CR at some point in time and she informed me that the organization took all it set its hands to quite seriously. Use of CR ratings by vendors to garner sales is an issue kindred to the re-use of disposable vacuum bags. People are told not to do it but go ahead and do it anyway.
Location: Scotland UK
Joined: May 31, 2009
Points: 1162
Re: Upright wanted--Hoover? Reply #50 May 20, 2010 6:02 pm
CR's ratings mirror GHI and Which? in the UK; consumers generally check to see what is rated as the "best" and move onto buying the products. Id hazard to guess that only a select few will continue to read the features further on with the way the Internet delivers information.
Re: Upright wanted--Hoover? Reply #51 May 20, 2010 7:55 pm
Venson wrote:
CR's ratings will be debated forever. However as a not-for-profit organization that I have no memory of hearing of using its position or name for the purpose of self-aggrandizement, I don't recall CR ever consenting to use of its recommendations by vendors in the first place.
Does anyone know if or when Consumer Reports stopped "policing" use of its recommendations by sellers or vending entities to push. product? They usually took such vendors to task or court over it. In past CR highly frowned upon the practice and still does unless policy has been changed.
I had a friend who worked for CR at some point in time and she informed me that the organization took all it set its hands to quite seriously. Use of CR ratings by vendors to garner sales is an issue kindred to the re-use of disposable vacuum bags. People are told not to do it but go ahead and do it anyway.
Venson
Hi Venson:
CR has not changed. CR, owned by the nonprofit Cinsumers Union, forbids companies from citing its respected awards in their ads. CR's annual auto issue [April 2010] recommended slightly more than one out of every four GM models the magazine evaluated. David Champion, CR's director of auto testing, says it buys the vehicles it tests from dealers. "We do not want to be beholden to the manufacturers in any way," he said. " We don't want to be seen as selling our names to manufacturers."
Contrast this with Consumers Digest which sells its awards usage to makers to advertize. Consumers Digest chose 15 GM cars and trucks for its 2010 "Best Buy" awards. Then GM paid the magazine fees for the right to mention those awards in its ads. CD says its typically asks $35,000 for the first award and $25,000 for each subsequent award. CD has a different business model than CR. Fees for its awards are one of its main sources of revenue. Its magazine has no subscribers, runs no ads and is only available in certain bookstores and retail shops.
Re: Upright wanted--Hoover? Reply #52 May 21, 2010 8:44 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hi Venson:
CR has not changed. CR, owned by the nonprofit Cinsumers Union, forbids companies from citing its respected awards in their ads. CR's annual auto issue [April 2010] recommended slightly more than one out of every four GM models the magazine evaluated. David Champion, CR's director of auto testing, says it buys the vehicles it tests from dealers. "We do not want to be beholden to the manufacturers in any way," he said. " We don't want to be seen as selling our names to manufacturers."
Contrast this with Consumers Digest which sells its awards usage to makers to advertize. Consumers Digest chose 15 GM cars and trucks for its 2010 "Best Buy" awards. Then GM paid the magazine fees for the right to mention those awards in its ads. CD says its typically asks $35,000 for the first award and $25,000 for each subsequent award. CD has a different business model than CR. Fees for its awards are one of its main sources of revenue. Its magazine has no subscribers, runs no ads and is only available in certain bookstores and retail shops.
Carmine D.
Thanks for the verification Carmine,
Say what you want about it, that's why I like Consumer Reports. Were it a publication funded by the manufacturers of product it reviews I'd be highly skeptical about making use of it. As CR strives to keep itself set apart from that kind of nonsense, I never need to always agree with its recommendations but have still found it a good tool for shopping as I find most of its advice relatively sound.
If my vacuum can remove even one spec of dirt that yours misses, then mine is better than yours - even if there's no proof that mine would have picked up as much dirt as yours...
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 397
Re: Upright wanted--Hoover? Reply #53 May 21, 2010 12:53 pm
Venson wrote:
Thanks for the verification Carmine,
Say what you want about it, that's why I like Consumer Reports. Were it a publication funded by the manufacturers of product it reviews I'd be highly skeptical about making use of it. As CR strives to keep itself set apart from that kind of nonsense, I never need to always agree with its recommendations but have still found it a good tool for shopping as I find most of its advice relatively sound.
Best,
Venson
CR is far from perfect, but it has the most comprehensive data available. Certainly it doesn't pick up on issues like some vacuums not functioning properly on wool carpeting. However, that is why user and professional reviews are also helpful.
The smart tyrant writes his own story to ensure that it is favorable. The lazy will repeat lines from the book without fact checking.
Re: Upright wanted--Hoover? Reply #54 May 21, 2010 3:12 pm
Severus wrote:
CR is far from perfect, but it has the most comprehensive data available. Certainly it doesn't pick up on issues like some vacuums not functioning properly on wool carpeting. However, that is why user and professional reviews are also helpful.
Hi Severus,
If wool carpeting was in very high demand I believe CR would probably give the matter deeper thought if brought to their attention or of bigger issue. However, how many people are buying wool especially now? It's an extremely pricey material that most people look at, and positively adore but then ask the sales guy, "Um, can you show me something that runs a little bit less?". From what I've seen, wool's just great but nylon with a good, dense weave is the next best choice.
I have never known any decent vacuum that had problems on wool carpet. If Berber or looped pile is the issue, my first thought is to either go for an upright with brushes as soft as possible or to consider very frequent vacuuming with a straight suction machine to help preserve the distinctive look it was bought for.
No, CR is not perfect but it helps everyday people who are not overly informed as to what's available and how it should work in the process of doing its job. CR has done wonderfull things for me. It explained basic things that go beyond brand or make. Did you know that half the battle with dishes is won if you have the water temperature to your dishwasher at the proper temperature. (If that's difficult to achieve the next best thing is a machine that can boost its wash temerature.) Dishwashers depend upon high alkalyne detergent and water teperatures hotter than our hands are meant to endure to work well. That in mind, to the benefit of many CR helped dispel notions that a humble $300 dishwasher couldn't hold its own against te bells and whistles on a 1,000 buck model.
Another example -- Forget wattage draw, merely the way a blender jar is designed can make all the difference in performance in a low wattage blender and one that can pull a truck..
That said, over the years I've seen CR as very helpful in helping regarding vacuum choices along with many other items especially where one might have been led to spend more thinking there was automatic advantage by way of higher price. Whether they're walking around on silk or olefin, CR's users are generally people who haven't the time to ponder long over the purchase of just a vacuum. That's why it's still popular both as a hard copy periodical and online Where else should they go?
