Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I recently visited a local vac shop, not the one run by a close friend. We discussed Dyson and other brands. He maintains that Dyson WAYYY overestimated the cost of returns/warranty repairs when he invaded the US vac market, which is why the Dysons were given a 5 yr warranty. He said Dyson, despite rumors to the contrary, is making money hand over fist, and show no sign of slowing down. Even though the hose is excluded as a warranty part, Dyson is issuing repair authorizations for them. He also said he is selling Dyson dirt canisters, cords, roller brushes, and hoses like there is no tomorrow.  He said Dyson is ready to cut prices when necessary to boost flagging sales.  The DC-07 will make a reappearance at  $299 or lower when the time is right.

I stopped by Best Buy to purchase a memory card  for my camera, and wandered down the vac aisle, of course. 33 full size vacuums on display. THREE bagged machines, all uprights. Other than Dyson, only ONE canister, a Dirt Devil straight suction. Dyson had on display three cans and four uprights, over 20% of the vac sku offerings!  There are new and interesting things in the vac shops, but nothing has changed at BBR where most of America buys their vacuums.  According to him, Panasonic has lost the contract to build Sears canisters.
All of this is, of course, excellent news for Kirby.

Hello Trebor:

The prices of new dyson models as well as old MUST drop drastically in printed ads.  Dyson MAP is out.  Big box retailers were forced by dyson to use MSRP in printed ads for dyson with caveats "before in store savings."  This may have worked in the past [pre-2008] when dyson was on a roll [due to the overextended economy and consumers] but no more.  Retailers want to advertise the low dyson prices to get customers in the stores.  Expect NEW DC17 and/or DC27's, better rug performers per Consumer Reports, advertised by big box retailers for $299 before discounts and savings.  With refurbs in the same models at $199 by discounters.  DC07 and DC14, DISCONTINUED dyson models, will be advertised and sold new for $199 for the few that are still in warehouses/stores unsold. 

I'm not surprised Sir James, the former dyson CEO and its founder, overestimated cost of returns and warranty.  Why?  Three reasons.  One, he overestimated the new sales of dysons in the USA after the economy tanked [starting in the last quarter 07 thru 2008, 2009 and so far thru 2010].  Returns and warranty are based on a percentage of new sales.  If new sales are down, what happens to returns and warranty?  Hint: Go down in direct relation.  Two, the influx of much less expensive bagless competition vacuum sales are robbing dyson sales in the last 2 years.  Three, Sir James didn't account for an unknown factor:  Disgrunted new/past dyson customers trading dysons still under/just out of warranty for independent vacuum store brands [like HS did with his DC07] rather than repair under/out of warranty and/or ship back to dyson and wait 3 weeks for a fix.  The three facts working in concert easily account for Sir James misque.  Not surprising.  He is not a vacuum business man.  He's just about style and profile. 

Carmine D.

Hello Carmine,

I understand what you are saying in your reply. I have to disagree on a couple of points. First, the presumed decline in Dyson sales.  Best Buy is HUGE.Their merchandising plans are consistent throughout the chain.  The store I just visited has already undergone the annual spring rip up and re do merchandising during the after holiday doldrums.   20% of the skus in vacs dedicated to Dyson, with some duplication on the two endcaps facing the store main floor.  It looks like they are planning on selling a lot of Dyson product, and have been doing just that. Every mailorder catalog seems to have the DC07 and/or DC14 in them. Walmart still has their one Dyson on display.   Walmart is ruthless about dumping vendors that don't meet sales expectations.  Second, there are people who blow through a few TTI/Bissell pieces of junk and decide to go with what they perceive to be as something better, and buy a Dyson.  If a 79.00 vac lasts 6 mo to 1yr, a 400.00 vac that lasts 5 yrs or a bit longer is not out of line., in their minds.

The Dysons are everywhere, and people do have them repaired, more than I can believe.   Price drop, sure they will, but that does not automatically equate to a sales drop.  I, too, prematurely assumed the demise of Dyson, due to the numbers traded in/needing repair, but those are a drop in the ocean compared to the numbers being sold.   Jimmy D is going to be around for awhile yet, I think.

Trebor

Hi Trebor:

Here's the Best Buy internet listing of the vacuum brands by number of models carried.  Dyson is number 3 for total sku's carried to BB total.  Far behind bissell and HOOVER [not counting Dirt Devil which is partnered with HOOVER under TTI].  Dyson accounts for 11 percent of thje Best Buy inventory of models.  Obviously, individual Best Buy stores vary from locale to locale.  I know the top selling BEST BUY store for dysons on the east coast.  Dyson sales are down at that store year over year from their highs and have been since 2008 in cluding this year to last.  It is by all accounts what I said it would be in 2002 after a few years.  A niche vacuum seller and not main street America. 

Retailers lease end cap positions [desirable locations] to brand makers.  Whoever buys gets the locations.  It has nothing to do with the quantity of product sales. 

Trebor wrote:

Speaking of Kirby and Dyson, there seem to be a lot of people doing Kirby -vs- Dyson comparisons on youtube.  Of course, they don't do valid tests, but they do tests like the door to door sales people taught them to do (last vacuum wins).  Curiously, when one person did a half way decent test of a Bissell against a Dyson, and the Bissell seemed to pick up a lot more dirt than the Dyson, he apologized for the results.  The Dyson owners who commented on the video insisted that the Dyson (DC07) must have clogged filters.   The major reason for the difference is the terrible brush roll on the Dyson DC07.   

CarmineD wrote:

I sold my DC07 simply because I wanted to try other vacs.  I never expeienced any problems or loss of performance as you would like others to believe.  I was not a disgruntled owner.

I have returned two Orecks because of poor performance.  I WAS A DISGRUNTLED OWNE

HOOVER FAILED AND HAD TO SELL.  ORECK IS NOW BEING SOLD AT DISCOUNTED PRICES AND ALSO IN WAREHOUSE STORES.  Must be all those over stocks from redusced sales at company stores.  Looks like Dyson isn.t alone in these slow economic times.  Did I misread or did the independent say that Dyson was selling great in these hard times?

Trebor wrote:

James Dyson seems like a likeable guy.  He may not be quite the salesman that David Oreck is, but he is the face behind the product.  He gains empathy from people who believe that he is truly trying to make a better product for them to use.  Dirt Devil, Hoover, Eureka, Bissell lost a lot of good will when they made high maintenance bagless vacuums with filters in the middle of the dust bins.   While he might be solving nonexistent problems with some of his features, I think he gains good will for his efforts. 

The biggest problem is getting people to part with $400 for a vacuum.  Given the success that Dyson is having, I've got to assume that the advertising campaign about low cost of ownership is working.  When you see replacement bags for vacuums costing $5 a piece that need replacement monthly, it isn't surprising that people are attracted to the idea of $0 cost of ownership with a Dyson.  Dyson is wise to be liberal in making repair authorizations for damaged hoses to build good will. 

If would be really nice if Dyson could find a way to build/assemble some of his vacuums in the US, since this is one of his biggest markets. 

Severus wrote:

Yes, but -- it would seem our own home-based companies won't to do the same without commanding an arm and a leg pricewise.  My gut feeling is that if Dyson were made here prices would probably double and reduce or jeopardize sales.  A nice face is one thing and a keen mind another.  I think Lord Jimmy knows exactly what he's doing and why.

Best,

Venson

Hi Sev.

Its not hard to get the consumer to part with over 4 beans for a vacuum. The key is to just back your words up and not tell stories about how their going to be taken care of if need be, The consumer really wants their moneys worth today more than ever, Its not the product in  most cases, But the people telling big long stories filled with empty promises,The way of doing business today is  how much money can we scam out of people and then GLOAT about doing gods work.

What gives in thinking that these ceo's are woth so much money thats obsence and can not be spent in 6 lifetimes.

Karmas a real B---TCH

regards

mole

HARDSELL wrote:

A little testy HS?  If you are so satisfied with the brand, why didn't you buy another dyson to replace the old DC07 you sold?  Actions speak louder than words, even capitalized words. 

Like you, many of the US first time dyson buyers, don't buy another new dyson after the first experience.  It's estimated that less than 10 percent of dyson buyers are repeat new dyson buyers.  Hence, the reason its market share is down in the UK which is Sir James country of origin.  From a high of 43 percent of the vacuum market in 2005 to a low of the 20's now.  If the other new vacuum sales markets are the same as the UK, as we are always told by dyson fans here, the same is true: Market vacuum share is declining for new dyson sales across the board.  Niche seller.  Not main street USA.

Carmine D.

Severus wrote:

Hi SEVERUS:

With Sir James' popularity in the UK waning year over year as a result of his move from the UK to Malaysia in 2001, any move to the USA, ever so slight, would be even worse for him in the eyes of the Brits.  He would have to resign his commission as tech czar.

Carmine D.