Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson Japan

Dyson today took the wraps off compact versions of some of its vacuum cleaners that are specifically tailored to fit the smaller Japanese homes [JP]. Chairman James Dyson said in Tokyo although the vacuums are Japan-only at this point, they may be eventually made available in other markets as well.

All three versions of the DC26 (DC26 motorhead complete/turbinhead complete/turbinhead entry) have strange names and are around 30% smaller than base models. Sized at just 205×320×266mm, they are comparable in size to a sheet of paper in A4.

The turbinhead entry costs $750, while the turbinhead complete costs $820. Buyers of the high-end model, the DC26 motorhead complete (pictured above), will be set back $900 when the vacuums hit Japanese stores on April 10. Dyson expects to sell 250,000 units a year.

Ace,
Well done!  Can you post a link to this interview and/or launch event?

DIB

Acerone thanks for the post, they are small!  I though the DC12 and DC22 was small, now the DC26 is 'small'!!  I did wonder what the DC26 would be havinf seen the DC27!  Do we know if these have the DDM in them?  I wouldn't mind one of these!   The trick now is to get the core technology into this size vacuum on top of the root technology!

DC18

DIB

I did some searching and found the below link with some pictures over 3 pages, one which I've posted below!  New power head too!  Just shows how small it is!  Smaller than the DC12 do we think!

DC18

http://www.excite.co.jp/ism/concierge/rid_4392/pid_1.html

Good Lord, that's small...

Thanks DC18.  Here is more information and pictures...

Story here.
Story here.

> click to enlarge

A shiny hutch for dust-bunnies...

Now I know what at least one former Forbes billionaire is doing in his spare time.  Modeling in picture shoots with his vacuums!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Quite unlike the notoriously camera-shy David Oreck, who never, ever, appears in the advertising of his products...

Dyson DC26 - Turbinehead Entry, Turbinehead Complete + Motorhead Complete

DC18 wrote:
You know i really wonder how he can sell this to the japanese with a strait face? I think i know why he has that sh##T eating grin on his face.Is he trying to see how gulliable the japanese are??????

mole wrote:

Such vitriol! I guess such overwhelming success will always attract jealousy and bitterness from those with nothing to offer.

mole wrote:
The Roomba sells for $800 US in Japan.  Seems the Dyson is in line with everything else.

We had a customer in the other day that had moved here from Japan and they were looking for a small vacuum.  We showed them the Riccar Sunburst and they said it was far to big. After seeing the pictures of the Dyson I now see what they were talking about as far as size goes.  Different lifestyles, different cultures, different markets.

Dusty

dusty wrote:
Hi Dusty,

Did they say whether they were living in an apartment or a decent-size house? The Dyson shown here might be just the ticket for someone living in a studio or one bedroom apartment with not a lot to clean.

Venson

Model2 wrote:

The difference is Dave ORECK is THE MOST recognized face in the vacuum industry.  James wishes he were.

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:
Hi Venson,

They had moved into a Condo that was mainly hardwood floor except for the bedroom.  I think they were still adjusting to the way we live...everything is bigger, appliances, cars, condos etc..


Dusty

Sir James enjoys much free publicity around the world.  It’s no different with the DC26 / meet Sir James Dyson launch event.  Excite.co.jp front page has for the last 24 hours covered the Dyson DC26 event.  No other vac manufacturer can come close to drawing this much free (and expensive if purchased) press - fact.  The Japanese love technologies and they respond to technologies invented at Dyson.

http://www.excite.co.jp/

CarmineD wrote:

A fond hope, I'm sure - where are the figures to back up this claim? 

Try standing on an English street and finding 5 people who know what an Oreck is, let alone who David Oreck is! James Dyson and his creations, on the other hand, are never out of the media - print, television, even radio!

So how do the japanese feel about vacuum cleaners made with parts from china???

MOLE

Model2 wrote:

The facts and figures are that your fave brand exports 2/3 of its total vacuums to the USA market.  In the USA, Dave ORECK is the most recognized face in the vacuum industry.  That is a given and well known fact here in the US vacuum industry.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:
Actually it has to be looked at the other way round MOLE. It is my understanding that the Japanese were kind of mean to the Chinese during World War II. Then again, even though Japan lost the war, it made a phenomenal comeback financially. The whole world went "Sony" and "Honda" and lots of folks went off smiling as they toted our dollars to the bank.

It's all a case of -- "He who laughs last, laughs best." I only hope everybody's friends again.

Venson

CarmineD wrote:

My 'fave brand' is Hoover, as was. Yes, I like Dyson. I don't love them, I don't hate them. I don't sell them, and I'm not a company employee, so I have no reason or motive to deceive anyone over figures of any kind. If the US market demand is for 2/3rds of the total production output, surely that speaks for itself.

Are you familiar with Facebook? There's a great group on there called 'I love my Dyson!', with over 700 members. There is also 'I love my Dyson Vacuum' (202 members), 'Dyson Vacuum Gang' (119 members), 'I'd rather own a Dyson' (112 members), 'Dyson Kicks Ass' (33 members), 'Dyson Vacuum Cleaners are Better than Henry Vacuum Cleaners (32 members), 'James Dyson is my Hero' (31 members), 'Dysoning Fans and Addicts' (20 members)...plus several more I can't be bothered to transcribe right now!

I can't find a similar group for the appreciation of Oreck's machines, but there is a group called 'I wish David Oreck was my Grandpa' (84 members). 

Is Oreck failing to catch the imagination of the younger, future generation vacuum-buyers in the same way Dyson is?

Model2 wrote:

Facts and figures again!  Depends on the total universe.  If you don't know that number [total universe], nothing speaks for itself.

Carmine D.

Model2 wrote:

Facts and figures again.  About 20 MILLION new vacuums are sold in the USA every year and have been since about 2000.   1000 internet users who speak up dyson on a regular basis is not even a good niche market.

Carmine D.

Model2 wrote:

It's not their imagination he has to capture, it's their money.  Since ORECK's been in business in the USA for over 45 years, he's doing it!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

And how do persuade them to hand you their money? By selling them a product. And how do you sell them a product? By creating purchase incentive. And how do you create purchase incentive? By capturing potential buyer's imaginations.

CarmineD wrote:

You introduced that figure, not me! You can use it to support your claims, but I can't - is that what you're saying?

Model2 wrote:

That's just part of it.  Being homegrown, with consistent praise from the leading consumer magazine, the first in lightweights, and having 45 years of experience with a network of 500 stores counts more.

Carmine D.

Model2 wrote:

I did not use it here first.  A dyson news article, which long ago use to be posted here ad neauseum, used it first.  I merely quoted it.  The USA vacuum market is the standard for a vacuum brand's success.  Not the UK.  Not Japan. 

Carmine D.

Perform a Google search and you'll find James Dyson's popularity be around 32 times that of Dave Oreck.  Not to bad considering Dyson is only a 16 year old corporation and Oreck is a 36 year old corporation.

I believe Oreck could of/should of been much more successful if they...  innovated.  Undoubtedly, they visit innovative ideas via independent inventors.  But the answer is always no (per patent filings).  Instead of wasting these independents time and money (traveling expenses) the Oreck Corp. should notify these inventors/warn the inventors that their position on innovation (both in-house and outside ideas) is a forgone conclusion... the answer is always going to be...  no.

DIB

Popularity doesn't sell vacuums.  Performance and price do.  ORECK has the lightweigh upright vacuum market.  James wishes he did.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Give numbers or otherwise please.

The Dyson story is something that resonates with people. - The Japanese launch event was such an example.  The Oreck's too, could contribute much more to society if they had the will.

DIB

45 years in the biz in the USA.  500 stores nationwide.  First in lightweights.  ORECK's aid to disaster victims and their families is the stuff of legend.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote: DysonInventsBig wrote: CarmineD wrote:
Come on Carmine, you hammer on us for not providing relevant numbers. So belly up and cough up some...  [relevant] numbers and otherwise please.


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

You missed it the first time around.  Here's an encore.

CarmineD wrote:

CarmineD wrote:

Numbers??????????

Your self proclaimed brilliance is covered by a cloud. 

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Your welsome DIB.  Thanks for posting the other links.  I can't see it being available in other markets as James Dyson says, it was said the DC12 would and it never did!  No mention of the DDM in any of them!  Very compact, smaller than the DC12!?  Like the new air driven brush head nozzle!

DC18

DC18,

The DC26 use a carbon brush motor.  The DDM was said to be noisy [costly too].

Look closely at the ball (hemisphere wheels) at the floor tool/pn, - very innovative. There is a video (below) of it's development on the Japanese DC26 web page.

DIB

http://dyson.co.jp/dc26/story/default.asp

http://kaden.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/news/2009/03/13/3657.html

HARDSELL wrote:

In due time, all the numbers will come out.  Patience.

But since you asked, here is a number from the Federal Reserve to wet your appetite.  It was released on Friday March 13 accompanied by a full front page article.   Since WW11 the Fed has tracked and reported on the wealth of Americans every year.  During this time, its always gone up, year over year, save last year.  Total wealth of Americans went down by 18 percent for a net loss of $11 TRILLION dollars.  You know the reasons for the wealth [asset] declines: Home values plummeted, 401 K's tanked, unemployment rose.

Now to get a feel for the magnitude and meaning of this number:  $11 TRILLION.  It exceeds the combined total of the annual output for Germany, the UK and Japan last year. 

Since you follow the new auto sales, you know the sale of all luxury cars was down last year and many luxury car brand companies like BWM and even your fave Toyota reported losses last year.  They both are predicting losses this year.  It's called the "wealth effect."  When wealth is growing, US consumers splurge and particularly on luxury items.  With the steep losses in wealth, it now cuts the other way spurring frugality.  What I called in my synopsis of vacuum sales a retail phenomenon called "trading down."

Carmine D.

Carmine:  Get it together first...  get the numbers, facts and relevant info and then post your positions.  The "Believe me I'm a vac professional/industry professional" is a "line" and it may or may not of worked magic in your shop.  On the web fact checking is oh so easy.

I liked Model2's FaceBook illustration, it reminded me of Apple users posting their love for their Macs.

Model2:  Good illustration (FaceBook and Palace), just be prepared to be challenged - always.  I’ve learned to take these challenges, attacks and otherwise and use it for my betterment.  I can smoke these guys if and when I choose.  I back off much and let em have their fun.


DIB

CarmineD wrote:

If you didn't know all of this before Friday it is further proof that yhour brilliance can't shine beyond the cloud.  I believe there are now less than 800 billionaires on the planet.

We discussed the decline in auto sales months ago.  As usual you wanted all to believe that Toyota was the only manufacturer suffering.  All are still feeling the crunch as they were back then.

I never said you are right or wrong.  I simply asked for numbers.  As usual you can't provide. Yet you think the rest should.

Getting the numbers is the hard part.  Why?  If you completed your 2008 taxes, you know that the IRS extended the due date for mailing of all pertinent tax documentation from Jan 31, to Feb 15.  Something about a Stimulus Package that caused the dealy.  Considering it was a Sunday and the next day an official Holiday, the real due date was Feb17.  This in turn extends all reporting dates.  Like the requirement for publicly held companies to file financials for 2008 by March 31, 2009.  Privately held companies are even longer.  Recall dyson issued 2007 financials in November 2008.  A luxury of being owned by one person who does not share data unless it is spun to his and company's best light.  Then once all the data is individually reported it has to be collected, verified, compared and reported.  Takes time.   But it always comes out sooner or later.

Carmine D.

PS:  I am retired and haven't worked in/for the vacuum industry in over 2 years.  I have no inside information, no more professional connections and no business contacts.  I spend full time in enjoyment watching and assisting my 3 grand children grow up and occasionally mentoring them with their vacuum interests, among other matters of importance to little ones.  And occasionally spend a few minutes a day posting here for the benefit of others. 

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Only thing you are smoking is a double bong!  The fun is watching you run for cover when you get caught.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Thanks DIB for the info.  Thought it might use a carbon brush motor!  Although I believe they are trying to work on more smaller, quieter, powerful versions of the DDM!  Do like the new floor tool, looks air driven not motor driven?   Very different to the ball on the motorhead power nozzle!

DC18

P.S. We now at my place of work have Airblades installed!  I think they are the new AB02's not the AB01's!!

DC18 wrote:
DC18,
The hemispherical wheels/ball look like they steer the nozzle well.

The nozzles are air and motor driven.  The Motorhead uses a Telescopic Wrap system.

On a “cool factor” rating, IMO the DC26 is just as cool as the DDM DC22.  Sir James is on the attack of late by out-inventing his *enemies and rivals.

The Airblade’s are great.  Folks like to comment on them as you’re drying your hands.

DIB

*Those mfgs. who strong-arm and steal from Dyson.

HARDSELL wrote:

Forbes said that in the recent edition of the Richest in the World.  Down over 300 from 2007.  You know any one who was knocked off the list?  According the Forbes wealthy list editor, nothing runs more scared than a noveau riche who falls off the billionaire's list.  After being use to the perks and prestige, they can't cope with giving them up.

Closer to earth and home, according to the latest survey of the Spectrum Group which follows these matters, the number of millionaires in the USA in 2008 fell by 27 percent.  The total number of US households with net worth of at least $1 MILLION [not counting home of residence] sank from 9.2 M in 2007 to 6.7 M in 2008.  The population of millionaires is now at the same level as 2003-4, meaning the economic crisis has erased the millionaire boom of the past 5 years.

Use to be when old man Forbes was at the helm, a friend of mine, I subscribed.  Back then they said 2/3 of the Forbes subscribers were millionaires.  Wonder if the fallen still are?

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:
I've always presumed that the AB02 was a modified AB01, with slightly a different build for some international markets. Is there any designation on the unit? I've seen some which state AB01 on the side.

M00seUK wrote:

Sorry M00seUK my fault I meant to put AB03, which I checked under the unit of one today at work.  On the UK Dyson Airblade the other week or so under the Latest News Dyson launch the AB03 which is a next generation Airblade but instead of being made from the original die-cast aluminium it is made from tough, heat resistant polycarbonate-ABS same found in Dyson Vacuum Cleaners.  So my works Airblades are the new AB03, but it not stated on the front or side only on the serial sticker\plate underneath!  They only have the 2 accreditations on the front.

DC18

CarmineD wrote:

Several of my closest friends were knocked off the list.  I was only $99 short of being on the list.  I may give up buying cars, mowers, golf clubs and vacuums to try again to get on the list of billionaires.

I have ocean front property on the north side of Las Vegas.  I will sell it cheap if you are interested.

DC18 wrote:
Ah, right. Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I've noticed that models at some locations are made of ABS/Polycarbonate.

HARDSELL wrote:

No, not interested.  If I want a water view, I'll put my underground irrigation system on manual and let it run for a day or two.  It will flood the neighborhood!

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

You know the definition of a recession?  When your neighbor's wife loses her job.  You know the definition of a depression [with a small d]?  When your neighbor loses his job.  You know the definition of a Depression [with a large D].  When you lose your job!

Nice to know that you have not been affected [yet]!  Vegas and Nevada have been hard hit.  Probably one of the worse affected in the country on all accounts:  Jobs loss, property values depressed, foreclosures, ad infinitum.  Even the influx of people out-of-state and country, so long the foundation of the construction industry which fueled the people and business growth, has subsided to all time lows.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Lexus, your fave luxury brand, was dropped from the top dependabilty spot by J.D. Power & Associates.  Beat out by BUICK.  Seems car buyers are trading down too not just vacuum purchasers.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I like buicks.  THey have always been GM's quality auto IMO.  Better than Cadillac.

They still do not drive and rid as good as the Lexus. 

As a car aficionado you know it takes about 4 to 5 years to take a new vehicle from the desk to the dealer.  Even changes to an existing model can take as long as 2 years.  I mentioned here several years ago exclusively for your benefit that toyota was taking the fast track on new products.  Ignoring the industry practices and using computer graphics instead to shorten the life-cycle of product design and implementation to less than a year.  It's had its consequences.  Still, as you say, Lexus is a nice riding car.

Carmine D.

I saw today that the DC26 is heading our way... USA that is... If that were the case then we would have the DC22, 23 and 26 canisters. Large, Medium and Small canisters which sound's purity good.

http://www.allergyuk.org/prod_newlatest.aspx

Hello Acerone and thanks for the update.  It appears the country info is from the British Allergy Foundation and its seal of approval.  Are you sure the info that the organization uses and publishes is accurate and up to date?

Carmine D.

Acerone wrote:
In concept...  I like the idea.

It sounds like the DC26 is now due to be launched in markets outside of Japan:-

BERLIN: Dyson has launched a new vacuum cleaner at the IFA 2009 trade fair in Berlin called the DC26 City which is so compact it sits on an A4 piece of paper and weighs just 3.5kg.

http://www.current.com.au/2009/09/07/article/IQCRZDDZGD.html

I really like the sound of this model, it might even convince me to buy a Dyson canister for the first time.

<BR> M00seUK wrote: <BR><BR>I like the DC26 model but it doesn't have the DDM... <BR>

IFA [trade show] 2009 in Berlin. Dyson PR rep interviewed. > Here  The DC26 is sugested for a home with a second floor - an upstairs vacuum.

   Kinda neat looking......so how much?

retardturtle1 wrote:
Around 800 bucks the last time price came up.

Venxon

Sorry, but $800 is waaaay to expensive for this machine.  Even if it had DDM, I don't think a price above $550 would be reasonable, by Dyson standards anyway: however, without the DDM, $400 should be the price it is sold for.  Think about it, the DC26 is a DC31 with wheels and a hose, sans the DDM.  It should be priced comparably with the DC24.  If this machine does cross the pond with an $800 price tag, then why not jack up the MSRP of the DC24 to $700 (of course, I don't see this happening).  An $800 MSRP for the DC26 is too freaking much.  

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Dyson needs to pull an Apple, and open up concept stores for their products.  I believe consumers buying expensive higher-end goods demand an equally high-end buying experience as well, with product experts abound, product demonstrations, and an appealing sales floor environment that draws in the curious (that's why I go to the Apple store to buy my Mac stuff rather than Best-Buy or the late CompUSA).

I agree I mac,

This machine would have a fighting chance at 300.00 to 350.00.But at 800.00 its a HARDSELL ,what is dyson offering for the 8 beans? a trip to dysonworld headquarters.

Please tell the pricemakers at dyson to get their act together.Its hard enough to crack the high end market but at least give them a high end machine.

mole

$800 U.S. dollars for a U.S. DC26?  Says who?

DIB

mole wrote:

mole,

you ain't gonna believe this.  At $800 you should get a trip to Disney Land to meet the other Goofy.

HARDSELL wrote:

Better to buy an ounce of gold at that price.  And dyson ain't gold.  Not even nickel.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:
Now, now MOLE - lets be generous. You know with the exchange rate being what it is and shipping costs being what they are plus all the money being pumped into the pockets of already over-paid factory laborers that it's a steal at that price.

Venson

Venson wrote:

NO WAY.....for that? ....talk about the dyson shaft and no kiss.

But no doubt the dyson groupies/collectors will line up for another session with james.

turtle1

These have just been released in Spain priced 399€. We had been mulling over which to buy and saw this yesterday.
SOLD! Why would you want anything else bigger?

Here are the specifications in the same format as the other products on the Dyson site (took me a few Google translations of the Japan site and a UK phonecall to source):

Patented cyclone technology : Root Cyclone™ technology core separator
Delivery : -
Suction power : 165 AW
Movement type : Fixed wheel
Filtration : Lifetime HEPA
Cleaner head : Mini Flat Out™ head
Stair cleaning : Sits on stairs
Bin capacity : 0.65 litres Clear bin™
Tools / accessories :
* Crevice tool
* Stair tool
* Brush tool
Dimensions : 266x320x205mm(HxDxW)
Max. reach : 8.6 metres
Cord length : 5 metres
Weight : 3.22 kg (5.62 kg)

I think that this is all - any corrections welcome. Note that the Japanese site does not contain the Power rating.

Mike

If my conversion from Euros to dollars is correct the 399 Euros equates to $590 US.  Down from the $800 price previously announced/posted here.  The price decline can be due as much to the weakening dollar as fall off in consumer buying and spending.  Especially for pricey household items that are nice to have but unessential to life.

If I recall, a poster criticized the smallish bin capacity on the VAX lightweight upright at 1.5 liters.  This DC has a .65 liter dirt bin capacity, less than half the VAX size, and yet almost 2 times if not more than the likely price of the VAX upright.  Teenzie weenzie is cutzie wootzie right up until the times you have to dance the dirt bin dump shuffle every 10 minutes.  Not to mention all the required filter maintenance with a half pint sized vacuum with165 AW of power.  The two, baby suction power and baby dirt bin, will keep the buyers/users of these baby dysons up close and personal with their vacuuming needs.  There's reasons these dysons are called 'baby.'  Obviously not because of the price.  More in terms of needed attention and TLC.

BTW, the VAX lightweight upright has 200 AW of power.  Comparable to a  full size vacuum.

Carmine D.

mikegoodstadt wrote:
Hi mikegoodstadt,

My place is certainly not large but a vacuum with a nine-inch PN would not serve me well when I'm cleaning. It will also probably prove an annoyance to eventual slick spiel-impressed buyers when it gets down to brass tacks with the average vacuum user. This particular vacuum would be best suited for anyone living in a one-bedroom or less young exec or execette pad who has little traffic and faithfully uses and empties it every day.

Everyone is entitled to his or own opinion but I still view this machine as merely an expensive toy. All I can say to that is blessed are those who have enough available cash, or credit, to cover the cost of this kind of amusement. In that, yes your right, I'm jealous.

That said --- in this case stats don't mean a thing to me as the cleaner is just too small in size and too high in price to be of any practical use in the average home.

Its size is so diminutive that it is more a cute hand vac than anything else. Save for the manner of dust collection and the mini PN, it is not new. General Electric/Premier and Westinghouse had easy to store mini-canisters with stronger than usual motors on the market 1940's and 1950's. Hoover's Porta Power also picked up the banner along the way and besides Eureka's Mighty Mite there are now also "compact" canisters put out by many makers that can do five times the work of this little thingy at less than a fourth of the price which, again, is the most thing impractical about it.

Not bragging, for years there has been ability and technology here to have fitted an American mini-can with a PN. I strongly suspect the lack of that event was due to acute knowledge of the market and not oversight. Instead, power nozzles were often delegated to even more easy to store ans use lightweight stick vacs.

I wish him well but considering what's already available and how American market value goes, this machine should sell for no more the equivalent of $300 to $350 American at best if Lord Jimmy expects to give anyone a run for the money here in the U.S.

Best,

Venson

James Dyson is still trying to pitch "value" [not saying dyson products are, just saying his pitch is] while consumers, at least Americans, are looking for cheap.  It's not 2002 anymore when BEST BUY convinced James to launch the dyson lineup in the USA.  It's 2009, people can't spend what they don't have.  2010 and 2011 if the US gurus are right, aren't looking any better.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

HI CARMINE

Nothing about dyson [pitch/products]  says value.....a cool looking little canister ,  it is.  Alot better/equal  at far less is availiable all over the market..

$300 for this is still way overpriced.....even to those who can afford. ..$100-120 max is about right for this one..and at that price range the compitition is dangerous and will domininate/outlast  dysons best....old/and new.....keeps his prices high to avoid direct comp.  just my view , but it is what it is.

turtle1 

mikegoodstadt wrote:
Mike,
I see you received a “meet & greet” by some of our nations biggest Dyson bad-mouther’s and rock-throwers.  These so-called vacuum experts have a long comical history here (and in their vacuum stores) of bad-mouthing Sir James, his people, his philanthropy and his products.

Your vacuum is a world’s first in many ways and nothing can touch it in terms of a) size/no loss of suction, b) no additional costs (no bags, no hastle), c) maneuverability and yes… d) suction strength.  Because all bagged vacuums loose around 40-50% of their suction strength (typically use - fine dust clogs bags), your vacuum maintains its air watts (no loss of suction strength).  Do the math… comparable sized bagged vacuums prove they underperform their advertised suction claims. 

Your vacuum’s nozzle out-turns all other power nozzles.  Dyson is calling the steerable power nozzle with its hemispherical wheels “V-Ball.”
Sir James is a smart guy…  Did you know the conservative party wants him to lead the UK (if voted in) in technological advancements or promoting/starting and selling UK technologies?  It’s big news in the UK but the so-called vacuum (UK) enthusiasts refuse to post it here.

I wondered if a pancake-like pre-filter and [this type] airflow routing would be the way to go to reduce a canisters size and now we know…  it is.

Since your vacuum is very convenient to store and use you may be using it more often and you will notice less dust in your home and in your carpets too.  If you push/pull the nozzle over carpeting slower (than typical) you’ll pull more out of your carpets and rugs.  Any vacuum larger/more powerful than this on hard surfaces is typically unnecessary.

Enjoy your vacuum…  a worlds first and another Dyson-only solution to an untapped market.  Certainly another money-maker for Sir James and another problem solver for its users and another vacuum for Dyson’s competitors to study and attempt to reverse engineer.


DIB

P.S.  While the self-acclaimed... the so-called experts here hammer Dyson’s price points they openly use and/or support their vac-dealer buddies who sell big margin $400-$1200 vacuums.  Comic relief…   it does not get any better than this!

DIB:

As usual you got it wrong.  We hammer dyson products, not James.  $600 plus for bagless plastic out sourced Malaysian made mediocre performing vacuums that require buku TLC is way over the top.  Hence the reason many many indies don't carry and sell the brand. 

Add to the above mix the worse global recession in 40 years, and the dyson product pricing strategy is a lose lose proposition.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
And Who  are we suppose to  listen to You'' Dubba, I know  you couldnt change a cord on vacuum let alone your 23lbs dyson ball that you found in the trash,go spout your party line in spain,

MOLE

DysonInventsBig wrote:
mole wrote:
The word is...  the uncomplicated, in the public domain/tired bagged imports will soon be sold by the pound, not unlike a piece of Cod.  My apologies to the Cod.


DIB

P.S.  You've never listed on this forum, the names of the high margin (for the vac shop owner) vacuum manufacturers you represent.  Would you list them now?

DIB:

New vacuum sales were never a money maker in my 42 years of owning and operating a vacuum cleaner sales and service business.  I sold new vacuums as an accomodation to my clientele.  For example, customers would come in and want a new vacuum purchase for a gift/occasion.  New in the box fit the bill.

The new makes/models I sold new were HOOVER, EUREKA, Westinghouse and Panasonic.  If you think these are and ever were high profit margin vacuums you validate what we already know here about you and your knowledge of the vacuum industry.  My business served the working people of 3 major cities and towns.  New import models were out of the question.  If customers wanted a new KIRBY, LUX, Rainbow, Air-Way, I put them in contact with one of the sales reps/branch managers for these brands.  I never asked what the prices were and/or a kick-back, despite many who offered me a kickback. 

My business was primarily in rebuilt vacuum, which I GUARANTEED for ONE YEAR just like a new vacuum at the time, parts and repairs of all makes and models of vacuums.  Not new vacuum sales.  Never.

Now that you know my background in the vacuum business, care to share with us what is your background in the vacuum business/industry?  I've asked you this before and you always are silent.  While we in the business, apst present, like MOLE, Procare, and others are forthright and honest.  Makes us think you are hiding something.  Are you hiding something?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Am I hiding something?  Absolutely!

I’m glad you found something you’re good at...  swapping out clogged vacuum bags for clean ones.  Riveting!

Good distracting story and con.  Mole has posted on this forum that he sells a vacuum that retails for $1200 (and you know it).  I say vacuums at these price points profit the vac dealer around $600-$800.  Dyson’s margins for dealers is only a small fraction of this.  These small Dyson margins and no additional [exclusive often only thru the dealer] bag and belt sales are the primary reasons dealers lie and bad mouth the competition - that is, the Dyson vacuum line.


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:

The only part of your post that is truthworthy and with which I agree is the highlighted part.  All the rest is smoke and mirrors to hide behind. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

HI

CARMINE

You did things the right way...the only way.....thats why you and so many here are and were in the business for so long....plain and simple.

Fly by night groupies/collectors come and go...but its you guys that are a part of history.....present and future.....you guys set the standard for all to follow.

Riccar -panasonic -hoover -sanitaire comm -royal mtl comm-fuller......are what we sell  new. we double mfg warr at no charge.

Kirby-royal mtl comm-sanitaire comm- are what we sell used....all with 1 yr warr...if and when we get them.

If we dont have what the customer is looking for..and it happens....we can track down who does and send the customer there......and half the time they return to us .

We dont do the massive DYSON price shaft thing......dont need to.  We have a solid- honest reputation and stand by all we sell/service....and make the customer the most important priority......here in the bible belt  word of mouth will either make you or break you....and word spreads fast around here.

turtle1

CarmineD wrote:
The Book (not a weakened/watered down book) says not to throw my pearls before swine.  Hiding good things is apropos.

DIB

The BOOK, which I know fairly well too, also says the truth shall set you free! 

Carmine D.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Hello 'turtle1'

The vacuum business is no different than any other sales and service industry.  Treat customers right, stand behind your products, give value for the price, and your business, with a good economy, will grow itself. 

Carmine D.

retardturtle1 wrote:
Retardt,

It’s only a shaft if Dyson is the doorkeeper to a “cannot survive without it” commodity.  Your problem is choosing a low-wage occupation and then lying about those who have the guts to go it alone - who walk the wire without the safety net of an employer.  We live in a free market and often times low-wage earners feel like victims, feel entitled and feel they can lie about doers.  Your choice.

Your dealer buddies here sell vacuums with double the price tags and double the margins (for dealers) than Dyson vacuums.  Additionally the profits keep pouring in when they have an exclusive territory and are typically the sole supplier of bags, belts and repairing/servicing to these so-called exclusive [i.e. hyped, in the public domain] vacuums.  “Dyson shaft” is another example of a lie told by a Dyson competitor.


DIB

P.S.  Glad to see you borrow my “groupies” tag where I describe the goofs who look up to bad-mouthing and dishonest vacuum dealers.  I liked it, that’s why I introduced it.

CarmineD wrote:
...Yet you slave to lies.  I doubt you spent even one day in this "freedom" (after childhood), if you did you'd want to remain there.


DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB,

You should know by now that it is not about vacuum sales.  It is about profits in parts accessories and REPAIRS, hence the dislike for Dyson.  Carmine supported repairs and parts for 3 major cities.  Never sold a Dyson or Dyson part.  Yet he tells us how poor the quality is with Dyson. 

Truth is the other brands require as many or more repairs, belts bags, etc than Dyson.  Otherwise those like Carmine could not have survived and the others would not have such a dislike for Dyson.

Did I forget to mention that Dyson has bitten one when he down played their possibility of being a threat to another brand?

HARDSELL wrote:
Hardsell,

Don’t you believe it...  New vacuum sales account for much.

What do you mean in the above (orange)?


DIB

DIB, H.S.,

            To me Dyson is a Niche cleaner with others trying to grab a piece of the action.What percentage of the business is Dyson trying to get? What percentage of the country will buy Dyson? I don't mean Dollars spent but percentage of the machines sold. As far as Dyson's service , there is always one coming in whereever there are Dysons sold. Parts would not be available if they weren't.  No vacuum cleaner even the weak powered Dyson are invincible and don't need repair. The new DC-26 is weak at 165 airwatts power. It compares to some of the of the better performers of the late 1980's.  Sanyo sold a Mite Hunter in the 80's advertised with 170 airwatts power.

           Dyson is not God's gift to the people as you would have us believe. A man had an idea and people said they liked the idea. Many are being turned off after using the various cleaners including Dyson. As long as there is someone out there that hasn't heard of Dyson and his concept there will be some sales. But there will always be repair.

                                                                                             Procare

          

procare wrote:
For an inventors kid, you sure fail to see the upside to patentable and problem solving inventions.

DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

You hide behind lies.  42 years in the same location in the vacuum cleaner sales and service business.  Honesty is the best policy.

Carmine D.

procare wrote:

I have never claimed Dyson to be trouble free.  Nor have I claimed that they are the best for everyone.  I do believe that there is a lot of deceipt among the anti Dysoners. They dislike Dyson because the didn't or can't sell dyson as indys.    Airwatts have been discussed many times here.  I do not believe that airwatts is the only measure of performance.  Neither do I believe that the brush with out proper suction is any better.  Oreck produces a high RPM brush.  However, it will not deep clean carpet.  BTW, cleaning hourly or daily does not constitute deep cleaning.  Only surface cleaning.

Hoover and Oreck are not god sends. However some would lead us to believe that they are.  I doubt that you ever admit to a prospective customer that there are other brands as good (or better) as you sell.

I agree.  They all need service, repairs, bags, etc.  If all those other brands are so good why is this?

HS:

Dancing the pay toilet shuffle.  You were the one here who said dyson has never regained the performance in vacuums that it achieved with a DC07.  Hence the reason you don't own and use one.  That's what you said.  Right!  If after 9 years of trying and 500 engineers dyson still can't match a flawed ridden DC07, then the "anti-dysoners' here have it spot on as my UK friend says.  You my good friend and DIB are living in the glory days of dyson's past.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

However, unless you are still living in the glory days of dyson's past, as I allege, you would admit that Procare has it all exactly right.  A DC26 has 165 AW.  A standard in suction power achieved in the vacuum industry in 1980's, almost 3 decades ago [one whole generation].  Where's the innovation in that?  Other than the high price and baby size.  On the latter, Venson cogently explains that others have come before.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

It is a well known industry fact that bagged vacuums, from the cheapest $40 Dirt Devil to the most expensive import, are and always will be more resilient to user abuse and misuse than a bagless dyson.  Ask any of the indies, dyson authorized too, who repair.  Look at yourself.  You were so confident in your DC07, what did you do?  You bought an extended service plan from BEST BUY along with your purchase.  Then couldn't use it because you sold the DC07 a few years after purchase.  Pay toilet dancing again.

HS you fail miserably to comprehend the reality of the consumer economy and spending on the the vacuum repair and parts business.  Vacuum users have to agree to doing the repairs and buying new/used parts.  In good times, vacuum customers forego vacuum parts and repairs and instead buy new every few years.  Big box rip off stores see their profits skyrocket.  In bad times, vacuum customers defer new vacuum purchases and instead repair their old vacuums.  Indies can make a decent living.  Too high prices, and/or shoddy workmanship, and the vacuum indies would lose the repairs, and parts business.  That's a formula for going out of business real quick like in bad times like these. 

Carmine D.

You HS and your anti indy poster DIB luv to minimalize the achievements/business acumen of the independent vacuum cleaner store owners and operators.  The backbone of the vacuum industry.  You malign and impugn us whenever you can.  When the we reciprocate with valid consumer and industry expert criticisms for the big box store vacuum brands, products and companies, who slave to them like your dyson and HOOVER, you take personal offense.  You call us names and try to undermine our business integrity and skills.  Have you or DIB ever been self-employed and run your own business.  For 42 years?  For one year?

Like I always tell DIB and it applies as much to you too:  Before you criticize the splinter in your neighbor's eye, remove the log from your own.  [That comes from the same good BOOK that DIB often quotes here when it suits his purpose].

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

I personally enjoy being the thorn in their side, So called big military industrial complex like corporations believe they are invincible and can get away with anything they want,This includes fleecing the consumer and being protected by the laws and the lawmakers who sold the little guys[middle class] out for profits and greed.

Anyone remember the french revolution.LET THEM EAT CAKE, or i got mine and the hell with you.

Dysons upright is made for less than 80 bucks.................

Seeing Dyson machines on sale for up to $100 off a cleaner that people said didn't need a sale price -my my. This is in the Dyson web site. Remanufactured machines too. That is an awful small digital motor. Says the magnet is tens that of a refridgerator magnet. The refridgerator magnets I see are not that powerful anyway.

                                                                                                                 Procare

procare wrote:

I saw a brand new DC27 still in carton with a bundled DC16 [handheld] included at a garage/yard sale yesterday in my community.  After 8 hours, it wasn't sold.   

Postscript:  A former poster here and a BIG TIME self-avowed dyson card carrying advocate once boldly posted that he would die of a heart attack first before a dyson would ever be sold at a backyard junk sale.  I posted in reply that I hoped his soul made it to heaven before the devil found out he was dead. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I bet your lack of *good judgment - the DC27 and/or the DC15 were stolen.

DIB

*You should of called the police and let them decide to act on it or not.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
CarmineD wrote:
I want to say thanks to you and the other Dyson DC26 rock-throwers…  It forced me to take a closer look and see what some of the benefits are and what makes this vacuum untouchable.
Bagged canisters clog and lose suction faster than uprights – fact.  When a canister is shrunk in size, so is its bag or the surface area (its filtration).  All mini sized bagged canisters are dogs…  that is, they clog/begin to clog with suctioning up only a ¼ cup of fine dust.  A homeowner needs or should often need to replace a mini-bag every room so to keep up with the no loss of suction DC26.

The DC26 destroys any canister in this category – fact.

DIB

HARDSELL wrote:

If the point you are trying to make is that ORECK does not deep clean if you use it daily, then I disagree.  If the point you are trying to make is that ORECK doesn't deep clean with a brush roll that revolves at 6,500 revolutions per minute, then I also disagree.  If the point that you are trying to make is that ORECK doesn't deep clean because it lacks the necessary suction power, then I also disagree.  If the point you are trying to make is that for all 3 reasons, the ORECK does not deep clean, then I still disagree.  Conversely, for all 3 reasons ORECK does deep clean and groom comparable to many full size vacuums on the market today, if not better.

Deep cleaning is a function of 3 vacuum features:  Rug pile agitation, brush roll action, and suction power.  I suggest that you familiarize yourself with the concept of direct suction path.  ORECK puts 102 mile per hour hurricane force wind between the carpet and the vacuum.  Where's it's needed the most.  The combination of the rug pile agitation created by the brush roll revolving at 6,500 RPM and the gale force wind of 102 MPH wind with the suction power at the closest point of vacuum cleaner [2 inches in] provides deep cleaning and grooming by the ORECK that is comparable, if not better, to many full size uprights on the market today including a dyson.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:
Hi mole,

You did not mention what Dyson upright costs “80 bucks.”  Anyhow…  if true, then your $1000-$1200 “ancients” (aka tired vacuums) build costs should come in around 50 bucks.  The fact is, these ancients require no R&D and are no longer exclusive property (protected by patents), but instead in the public domain inventions (public property).   Any pimply-faced kid with daddy’s money can copy your tired vacuums at will.


DIB

P.S.  How come you have not announced here what brands and models you carry?

              To many the bagless vac is unhygienic. There is talk that self sealing disposable containers may increase in popularity. Also wonder what is the true power is in a 115 volt motor  versus 220 volt in use over seas. 165awp is at 220 volts not 110.

              It has been noted that  many U.S. made vacuums achieve better cleaning performances as good or better than European vacuums despite our using up to 1400 w 0r 115 volts. Europe is even considering cutting wattage of their cleaners down thus needing work to improve performance Any truth to that DIB? You seem to know all.

                                                                                                                                                                                 Procare.

                                                                                                                        

DysonInventsBig wrote:

I didn't want to go there but you force me.  Dyson is a gift.  The couple, over 55 years of age, don't want it.  They plan to buy an ORECK, which they are currently using as part of the free in home trial.  They want to sell the unused dyson and use the proceeds to defray the cost of the ORECK.  They sold the dyson Sunday as part of the garage/yard sale.  Couldn't get their price but didn't want to be stuck with it.  So they took the highest offer.  It was more than $250 but less than $300.   

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

I'm curious DIB what is your fact based on?

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Perhaps MOLE is following your advice from Matthew 7:6. "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine,lest they trample them under their feet,and turn again and rend you." 

Why should not MOLE do the same as you?  Are you special? 

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
CarmineD wrote:
Come-on…  Turn a-bout is fair play Carmine.  Many Independent Vacuum Dealers beat up Dyson openly in their shops, beat up Dyson in forums and beat up Dyson by posing/lying/pretending to be consumers at online review pages or sites.  Come-on…  posting his or other Dyson bad-mouther’s wares here (vacuum brands and models they rep) should be fun.

DIB

Poor dyson, DIB.  Must be a country-wide vacuum cleaner industry conspiracy against dyson.  

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB........never really thought of dyson as a competitor....in any way.  I express only what iv seen,  and feel about dyson....or any overpriced vacuum reguardless of who made it. So....no lies...just my views...comments...

Low wage occupation....nah..i do what i love and love what i do.....no commissions wanted/needed....i sell only the very best / all repairs 100% guaranteed....nothing but the best for the customer.....before - during and after the sale.

And as always DIB.....i respect and enjoy your views and comments....reguarding your knowledge /exp..on vacuums...and look forward to more of your posts.

turtle1