Abby's Guide to Vacuum Cleaners
Username Password
Home Discussions Reviews More Guides
Abby’s Guide > Vacuum Cleaners > Discussions > “Anything” Dyson that makes news.

Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Search For:
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454


Original Message   Jun 28, 2008 12:41 am

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

.

This message was modified Aug 2, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



Replies: 474 - 483 of 624Next page of topicsPreviousNextNext page of topicsAllView as Outline
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454


Reply #474   Jan 16, 2009 5:51 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
... That's been my view too and for some time.

re: blade drag
 I do not own a DC18 and only experimented with one at my home for a little while. The blade simply does what it is designed to do, that is... scrape. On my Berber carpet it was noticeable and measurable. With the vacuum running and with the blade removed the vacuum measured about 1/2 of a pound easier to push/pull (if I remember correctly). In my opinion this COULD OF been easily avoided (engineered better) and when Which Magazine announces - the Slim feels "heavy"  ...is this the kind of publicity Dyson wants from a [powerful and popular] consumer magazine?

 I believe the Slim is Dyson's most creative, only because I have never seen anything that predates/is similar to this ball set up. I have seen ball canisters in the patent office and ball toys and Sir James said the Ball Barrow was a DC15 inspiration, etc., but I've never seen a ball/Slim set up before I learned of the DC18.  I was terribly disappointed with the build on the DC21 - great idea, poor execution.  I need to ice my wrist after vacuuming.  Our housekeeper hates my DC21 and reminds me of it every time I pull it out.   :)

DIB

Model2 wrote:
With the DC24 and DC25, the blade remains, but it's made of a thinner material. Also, rather than one solid strip, it's sliced into little tabs, so it offers less resistance whilst performing the same function. Perhaps the blade on the DC18 could be similarly modified to improve performance? That said, I don't fancy taking a craft-knife to it when I don't really find it to cause a problem in the first place!

The first true steerable cleaners were the Air-Way uprights of the 1920s (of which the DC18 is VERY strongly reminiscent; I'd be shocked if the designers hadn't had them in mind when they created it!), and the Apex Model 120/Vactric Airflo of the mid-1930s. Vactric charmingly called the feature the 'Witchway Handle'! From 1908 - 1922, Hoover offered models which had ordinary front wheels and rear swivel-castors, all running on ball-bearings, which achieved a similar effect. So it's not really a new idea, it's just repackaged for the new century. 'Putting a new spin on an old idea'!


Model2,

 I have seen two vacuums in the United States Patent Office, that use a manipulating handle (1. a swivel and 2. a gimbal) both from the 1930’s (early and mid). These two vacuums are the obvious forerunners in function to the Miela S7 and alike.  If there is a vacuum that rides on a DC18 type roller it is not in the US patent office (I’m 95% sure).  I’d like to see this vacuum, do you have anything illustrating it that you can post?

 I have a love/hate for wiper blades under vacuums. It may be a good consumer element but it’s not the best way to vacuum a hard surface as you know. I’ve yet to see a broom that uses a wiper blade.  The Dyson blades cut into fingers as you pointed out certainly have more benefits than a straight edged blade. I too think the DC18 has some benefits unlike the DC25. I assumed moving the motor, HEPA and all the housing from the DC18 handle and into the DC25 Ball would have lightened up the DC25 handle weight considerably, which it did not. I found this to be disappointing.

DIB

P.S.  The vacuum [wand] swivel dates back to 1909.

This message was modified Jan 16, 2009 by DysonInventsBig



Venson


Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900


Reply #475   Jan 16, 2009 7:57 pm
Hi DIB,

Please take a look at the following link -- http://www.137.com/museum/airway.htm

You will be led to an image of one of the ealiest innovation in electric vacuum cleaners.  It is the Air-Way upright vacuum that I mentioned in an earlier post. I believe.  This Air-Way vacuum originally began with just a straight suction nozzle but all, the way back in the late 1920s somebody got the idea to make what had to be the first electric power nozzle.

This idea did not seem to validate itself until the very latter 1950s.  Imagine an Electrolux XXX or Hoover Aerodyne tank-type fitted with one of these.  Then again  . . . To everything there is a season  . . .

In the nearer past Hoover produced a PN for am series of canisters that that allowed you to lowerr an actual brush strip for cleaning bare floors. They also supplied for one stick vac model.  'Tis true I -- I owned one.

Someone please correct me if my memory has failed but I believe circa 1970-something Panasonic canisters used a plastic blade on its PNs. 

Plastic or rubber blades in in the past 50 years in general have usually only been used for "squeegee" tools meant to remove fluids from hard flooring.  Pardon my presumptuousness, but the standard for hard floor cleaning has been either natural or synthetic bristle used to compose brush strips intended to aid vacuum cleaning hard flooring.  In my opinion, plain old plastic strips tend to moreso push whatever is loose on a dry floor that dislodge adherent matter as well as a for real brush strips do.

Venson
Model2


~ It Beats...as it Sweeps...as it Cleans ~

Location: England
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
Points: 155


Reply #476   Jan 16, 2009 8:07 pm
Hi DIB,

the Airway vacuum I refer to doesn't ride on a roller or a ball; in comparing it to the Slim, I referred to more general similarities between the two machines:

  • they both have rear wheels for stability which aren't used when vacuuming - the Slims retract automatically, the Air-Ways are clear of the floor when you're holding it for use
  • they're both slim-profile, lightweight uprights
  • the Air-Way rides on a floorhead which has two wheels, meaning it is possible to steer the cleaner more easily than a conventional, 4-wheeled upright. The swivel-neck means the cleaner can be turned on its side for doing underneath low furniture
  • they both have change-over valves which divert suction down the handle for 'above-floor' cleaning - the Air-Ways being a round celluloid dial you turn manually; the Dysons being automatic. The Air-Way has a wide, hollow handle, which you can affix a hose to for 'above floor' cleaning
  • stylistically the floorhead on the Slim is VERY reminiscent of the one used on the Air-Way twin-motor models

The biggest difference between the Airway and the Slim is that Airway introduced disposable bags, and Dyson introduced a system which made them obsolete! When I first saw the Slim, my impression was that the Dyson designers and engineers had looked at the innovative Air-Way, and updated it for the new millennium, taking its overall design and features and making them more user-friendly. Here's a set of pictures of my Air-Way 'Fleetwood Special':


~ However Clean - Hoover Cleaner ~
Venson


Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900


Reply #477   Jan 16, 2009 8:21 pm
Thanks Model2.  It's a real stunner.

Venson
Model2


~ It Beats...as it Sweeps...as it Cleans ~

Location: England
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
Points: 155


Reply #478   Jan 16, 2009 8:28 pm
Venson wrote:
Hi DIB,

Please take a look at the following link -- http://www.137.com/museum/airway.htm

You will be led to an image of one of the ealiest innovation in electric vacuum cleaners.  It is the Air-Way upright vacuum that I mentioned in an earlier post. I believe.  This Air-Way vacuum originally began with just a straight suction nozzle but all, the way back in the late 1920s somebody got the idea to make what had to be the first electric power nozzle.

This idea did not seem to validate itself until the very latter 1950s.  Imagine an Electrolux XXX or Hoover Aerodyne tank-type fitted with one of these.  Then again  . . . To everything there is a season  . . .

In the nearer past Hoover produced a PN for am series of canisters that that allowed you to lowerr an actual brush strip for cleaning bare floors. They also supplied for one stick vac model.  'Tis true I -- I owned one.

Someone please correct me if my memory has failed but I believe circa 1970-something Panasonic canisters used a plastic blade on its PNs. 

Plastic or rubber blades in in the past 50 years in general have usually only been used for "squeegee" tools meant to remove fluids from hard flooring.  Pardon my presumptuousness, but the standard for hard floor cleaning has been either natural or synthetic bristle used to compose brush strips intended to aid vacuum cleaning hard flooring.  In my opinion, plain old plastic strips tend to moreso push whatever is loose on a dry floor that dislodge adherent matter as well as a for real brush strips do.

Venson



Air-Way put themselves out of the upright market by copying Hoover's Agitator for their powerhead. Hoover successfully sued them for patent infringement. Air-Way claimed that since their beater-bars were mounted on rubber, their design was distinct from Hoover's, but the courts ruled against them.

Air-Way are also notable for being the first brand to introduce disposable dustbags on their machines; or as they called them, 'cellulose filter fiber dirt containers' . Hoover then offered similar disposable bags - 'Hygienisacs' - made of treated pulp-felt, as an option on their machines in 1929. There's some confusion as to what happened next; Air-Way did take Hoover to court, and my understanding was that it had again ruled in Hoover's favour, because the Hygienisac was re-useable, and the Air-Way bag was not. However, an Air-Way expert advised me that this was not the case, that Air-Way won and Hoover had to stop making them. Certainly, the Hygienisac wasn't around for long, but I couldn't say which ending is correct!

WRT the wiper-blade, it was originally included to stop uprights with revolving brushes from scattering debris when used on hard floors. I know Sebo have included them for quite a long time. They seem a little redundant on uprights where you can switch off the brush-roll for hard floor cleaning, but I guess they help focus the airflow in front of the nozzle, and prevent debris from being missed by guiding it into the airstream.

~ However Clean - Hoover Cleaner ~
Venson


Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900


Reply #479   Jan 16, 2009 8:53 pm
Model2 wrote:
Air-Way put themselves out of the upright market by copying Hoover's Agitator for their powerhead. Hoover successfully sued them for patent infringement. Air-Way claimed that since their beater-bars were mounted on rubber, their design was distinct from Hoover's, but the courts ruled against them.

I hope I get an actual chance to look one of these over .  In any event, I still find merely "suctioning" a bare floor with an upright vacuum when in need of a good cleaning as less than worth the while.  I much prefer a hose and bare floor attachment -- if the cleaner has the power.  A quick pass or so to get up a dust mote with an upright is probably not all that bad but Kirby's felt pad -- though it only allowed for airflow at either end -- was probably the most serious anhancement to any American upright regarding bare cleaning.  For a time, the G series was accommodated with a snap-on plastic plate that had a brush strip -- I've got one -- that was even more helpful on bare floors.

Venson
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894


Reply #480   Jan 16, 2009 9:46 pm
Model2 wrote:

WRT the wiper-blade, it was originally included to stop uprights with revolving brushes from scattering debris when used on hard floors. I know Sebo have included them for quite a long time. They seem a little redundant on uprights where you can switch off the brush-roll for hard floor cleaning, but I guess they help focus the airflow in front of the nozzle, and prevent debris from being missed by guiding it into the airstream.


My ORECK XL Classic has the wiper blade too on the rear of the sole plate that goes the length of the brush roll.  One pass forward is all that it takes to get anything/everything up and off the barefloor for the entire swath of the nozzle.  But as I've tried to tell HARDSELL many times, the trick to get the best performance from the ORECK is to turn it on.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jan 16, 2009 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894


Reply #481   Jan 16, 2009 10:02 pm
Model2 wrote:

Air-Way are also notable for being the first brand to introduce disposable dustbags on their machines; or as they called them, 'cellulose filter fiber dirt containers' . Hoover then offered similar disposable bags - 'Hygienisacs' - made of treated pulp-felt, as an option on their machines in 1929. There's some confusion as to what happened next; Air-Way did take Hoover to court, and my understanding was that it had again ruled in Hoover's favour, because the Hygienisac was re-useable, and the Air-Way bag was not. However, an Air-Way expert advised me that this was not the case, that Air-Way won and Hoover had to stop making them. Certainly, the Hygienisac wasn't around for long, but I couldn't say which ending is correct!



The HOOVER Handi-Sacs [with the bag clips for the top openings] were reusable papers that were very expensive, labor intensive, and messy.  They were standard equipment on two new HOOVER upright models offered in the USA: The HOOVER 61 [circa about 1949] and HOOVER 62 [early 50's].  Then they disappeared in favor of the disposable Type C papers on the HOOVER 63, 64 and all the bottom fill Convertibles.  But the HOOVER Handi-Sacs were still available for many years for customers who still had these bags in their H-61 and H-62.  Most customers hated them for the cost and the mess.  And vacuum repair shops offered work arounds to avoid the reusable papers in favor of a straight cloth bag/disposable paper. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jan 17, 2009 by CarmineD
Model2


~ It Beats...as it Sweeps...as it Cleans ~

Location: England
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
Points: 155


Reply #482   Jan 16, 2009 10:12 pm
Hoover's Hygienisacs pre-dated the Handi-Sacs by over a decade:



~ However Clean - Hoover Cleaner ~
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894


Reply #483   Jan 16, 2009 10:13 pm
Venson wrote:
Thanks Model2.  It's a real stunner.

Venson



Hi Venson:

Among other things, it claimed to be an excellent hair dryer for women.  Maybe that's where dyson got the the idea for the Airblade

Carmine D.

Replies: 474 - 483 of 624Next page of topicsPreviousNextNext page of topicsAllView as Outline
Vacuum Cleaners Guide   •   Discussions  Reviews  
AbbysGuide.com   About Us   Terms of Use   Privacy Policy   Contact Us
Copyright 1998-2024 AbbysGuide.com. All rights reserved.
Site by Take 42