Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I started the thread about lead cleanup and the Eureka sealed-HEPA system...

I'm now looking at spending the extra dollars to purchase the Simplicity Synergy.  The price tag alone makes me worry that the Eureka sealed HEPA isn't as impressive as the marketing makes it sound.

Again, I know a vacuum cleaner alone isn't a solution to a lead-paint chipping problem but I am venturing to guess that the right vacuum cleaner (with a sealed HEPA system) will improve the situation while the wrong vacuum cleaner (an inexpensive Bissell or Eureka) may actually make the situation worse. 

I cringe to think that every time I'm vacuuming I'm just blowing more lead dust up into the air and making the environment more hazardous than it was to begin with.

The Simplicity salesman I spoke with told me that the Synergy air filtration was "hospital grade."  I also remember reading on here that "hospital grade" is not necessarily a good thing.  Can anyone elaborate on this?

Is $700 a reasonable price for a Synergy (this is marked down $200 with a trade-in). 

I've seen the Minuteman Lead HEPA for $625 here.  Any opinions on if the filtration of the Synergy would be equal to or better than this Minuteman Lead HEPA?

I also forgot to ask the Simplicity salesman about canister vacuums- would these be less expensive?

He did confirm that a bagless vacuum is not the way to go- I will not be purchasing one of these.

Thanks again,

Tech

It looks to me like the bag coupling collapsed , was there a new bag installed in the machine when you got it?, did you install the bag ?Did the thermal switch shut the machine down after 10 minuets of use.

I smell a rat, maybe self induced sabotage?

Your not fooling me, Are you on DYSONS payroll too

mole

techphet wrote:
I stand behind my previous statement.  The inside of the compartment should not look like that.  Even if you used the blue microlined bags, it would not look like that.  The Simplicity HiFlow HEPA bags work really well.  There are a few things that may have happened.

Did you look inside before you started cleaning at home?  I am wondering if you received it like this or if it happened on "your watch".  When you opened and discovered this, was there quite a bit around the bag opening?  There is very little chance that this bag was put in wrong, because it only goes in one way.  If the collar in not completely locked into its holder, the lid will not close and you will not be able to use the vacuum cleaner.  The machine-end of the hose is inserted inside the bag.  The membrane around the opening helps seal the dust in.  If the bag is not completely locked into place, the hose will not insert.

Look all around the bag for holes, tears or excessive discoloration on bag.  These bags are more difficult to tear, but it can happen.  Look behind the bag collar and see if there is any tear where the bag is attached to the cardboard. 

Open up the exhaust filter cover and remove the filter and inspect it.  What do you see? 

The Verve could have been purchased and returned or used as a demo, then boxed up and left a secret.  When the Simplicity is unpacked, most of the parts are wrapped pretty well.  The main unit should have been wrapped in the large plastic bag and not found at the bottom of the box.  That is a clue right there.

You must pay the shop a visit.  Get the manual, because it cost a pretty penny. 

Hello David Tech:

Bad new vacuum experience!  It happens.  Very shoddy for the store to let the Verve leave the store without the Users Manual/bad paper bag/installation.   It happens!  Inexperience by the store staff/busy with several customers...........whatever.  It happens.  The issue now is as you said: Customer service!

Questions to ask the store sales person:  Is the bag pictured in the vacuum the original equipment paper bag installed from the factory?  Did the Verve ship from the factory without a Users Manual?  If yes to either, it's a factory problem. 

If no to either, and the store inserted a new HEPA filtrete, and removed the Users Manual, then it's a store problem.  Either way, the store owner/operator has the responsibility to make it right and satisfy you, the customer.

I'm inclined to believe the later since the Users Manual was missing.  Let's go on the latter assumption.  The store staff removed the original bag in the Verve [for whatever reason] and replaced it with a new bag that was bad/installed incorrectly.  The store should make it right and provide you with a User's Manual plus something extra.  

Don't call.  Go in person to the store with the Verve.  With the questions I posed above in your mind to ask.  Talk with the store person who made the sale.  Just open up the bag compartment and ask him/her what would cause this to happen?  Let the store tell you what happened.  Also ask:  Why didn't the vacuum's fail safe shutoff switch work?  [MOLE's point]. 

Solution:  This is a correctable problem with an answer that only the store's owner/operator knows for sure.  If you paid the full price for a new Verve, then the store should sell you a new Verve in a box with the paper bag installed from the factory and a Users Manual.  Not a demo/display that has most probably been tampered and/or manipulated [either by the store staff/customers] to cause the problems you had: No manual and a bad bag/installation.  If you learn from the store staff that this Verve was in fact a store demo/display [customer return?], and it insists you must keep it [after they correct the dirt/bag problem] ask for a discount from the price you paid.  Substantial discount if a customer return!  Stand your ground.  The store has to satisfy you. 

Compromise position:  If you don't get a new Verve, and/or a substantial discount for buying a demo/display [customer return?] , ask for a supply of the HEPA filtrette bags.  A year's supply would equate to 8-10 bags.  That's the least the store can do after it corrects the vacuum's problems.

Keep us posted on your progress. 

On a postive note, you now know for sure that the Verve vacuum is completely sealed since the dirt in the bag compartment never leaked out and onto the outside of the vacuum and/or into the air your breathe.  Had this happened, you would have stopped and opened the vacuum up to investigate sooner minimizing the effect of the bad bag/installation.

Carmine D.

Do not forget to ask for the "Simplicity Customer Service" phone number. It will be very useful it you do not get what you want. They are, IMHO excellent people to deal with, (at least from my experience at the dealers standpoint). Even though they did a demo, I'm also a little perplexed why they didn't open the box, put it together for you at the store and go over it step by step with you again. Customers do not grasp everything during their demo as they have other things like affordability factors or confusing features of different models they are shown running through their minds that cloud their retention.

Mike, Carmine, Lucky

Thanks for the advice.  I plan on stopping at the store today if the manager is in, otherwise Tuesday.

Mole,

The vacuum never shut itself off.  The bag was already installed.  I had opened and closed the bag compartment as I was ensuring that the motor filter was clean (there was a very light amount of dust in the hose).  The bag compartment and motor filter were spotless when I had looked inside. 


Tech

techphet wrote:

Hi David:

Something went awry with the bag/installation either before you bought the Verve and/or after.  Perhaps you did it, perhaps not.  The store owner/operator and you will determine once you take it in and discuss.  He/she will ask you what you did and how you did it [opening and closing the bag compartment].  And he/she will correct you if you made a mistake.  He/she, as Lucky and others said, should have walked you through the bag installation referring to the User Manual while doing so, regardless of how easy/difficult the task.  It's part of the demo and sales process. 

Dust in the hose is not an issue.  Sometimes you shut the power switch before all the dirt makes its way through the hose to the bag.  If you are concerned about it, perform this simple task.  Before you shut off the Verve, hold your hand over the tool end of the hose as though you were testing the suction at the end of the hose.  Block the hose opening for a few seconds with your hand and then remove your hand.  Do this a few times until all the dirt is pulled through the hose into the bag.  Then shut off.  This is probably a good practice to get into considering the asbestos and lead conditions you have.

Ask about the fail safe switch shut off.

Keep us posted.

Carmine D.

Hi,

The Verve manual is free.  See following link: http://www.simplicityvacs.com/about-my-simplicity/manuals/Verve_OwnersManual.pdf

Venson

Hi Venson:

I had to laugh at the words on the cover of the User's  Manual:

Chances are you'll never read me

Carmine D.

Aren't bags great?  If the bag comes adrift in use like in this situation, the motor compartment is filled with dust, the brand new HEPA filter is filled with dust, not to mention the owner has to clean out the bag compartment and that compartment will still not be as clean as it was new!  If that bag was SEALED to where it could not come adrift, this would not have happened.  Or in a Dyson, where there is no wrong way to replace the bin after it is removed.  The cyclones can't come adrift. 

In this situation, a decent amount of fine dust already went past the pre-motor filter, through the fans of the motor, and into the post-motor HEPA filter.  The HEPA filter is no longer clean.  Had the bag not come adrift, there would be less dust in that HEPA filter after 6 months than there is right now. 

So why are bags best again?  Same reason a horse-drawn carriage is better than a car?!

-MH

Hi Tech,

Had you bought a Perfect which is the new name for the Electrolux, you would have gotten a metal-bodied vacuum with HEPA bags.  The bags are sealed, and they cannot come adrift.  There is no way that an Electrolux bag would leak dust under any circumstances unless it gets wet.  This machine uses the HEPA cloth bags which makes the filtration even better.  It's a classic design that will clean any home no matter where you live.  It's durable, powerful, and versatile.  It happens to be, in my opinion, one of the best values in a vacuum cleaner I've ever seen.  It really is perfect.  Not to mention the combination dusting brush/upholstery tool is the best in the world and has been since Electrolux invented it in 1965.  It has never been superseded. 

Would you want the bag to leak dust when you're picking up lead paint chips?  Of course not.  I would return the "Complexity" and ask for a Perfect (Electrolux).

-MH