Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

2)  March 17, 2009:  While many independent vacuum dealers bad-mouth, lie of and/or dismiss James Dyson and his teams contributions, many others champion the man.  Watch James Dyson in his element - in his Malmesbury Headquarters.  NBC’s “Today Show”  http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-us&vid=71fa9222-10d2-413c-bf31-0007895697ac

2)  Older video news:  I could not resist...  A Hottie car-news chick mentions the rumor of Dyson working with car makers, and Oreck gets a mention too (funny).

www.blinkx.com/video/hamann-stallion-audi-a7-fast-lane-daily-24jun08/JQ18e2m7y5hiULCgEQWSvw

H.S. i was NOT talking about suction delivered at the end of the hose,i was explaining how air movement and suction is delivered at the rug cleaning nozzle,Thats the part with the brush rollor in it,

But since you asked about the KIRBY,ROYAL, AND THE DC14, the suction at the hose end on the dc14 is a little more than the royal,the Kirby is a fan first open chambered set up,has tremendous air movement, suction at the hose end is between 35 and 40  on an iwl meter,not very much,the dyson and royal are between 70 and 98 total, but do not touch the kirby for fast and though rug cleaning, HAVE I LOST YOU YET? .

This is why a canister or tank set up cleans as well as any upright out there,with the right agitator or powerhead set up,The hey day of uprights are over,besides not to many people have carpeting in their homes anymore,except for a few scatter rugs here and there.

MOLE

You are right to a point.  If and only if the customer chooses after market parts should be used.  It is not the certainly not choice of the indy to use after market parts and charge the higher Dyson (if it is higher ) price,   I suspect that it happens very frequently.  Any inteligent person knows that it is no concern of Dyson if the customer is paying the bill.

The irony is a indy using after market parts and telling the customer that genuine parts were used, regardless of brands.  Dyson fans ar ecorrect to lamblast indys for selling vacs that need bags, belts and service on an annual or semi annual basis.  You could sit upside down and still sit on your a$$.

H.S. i was NOT talking about suction delivered at the end of the hose,i was explaining how air movement and suction is delivered at the rug cleaning nozzle,Thats the part with the brush rollor in it,

But since you asked about the KIRBY,ROYAL, AND THE DC14, the suction at the hose end on the dc14 is a little more than the royal,the Kirby is a fan first open chambered set up,has tremendous air movement, suction at the hose end is between 35 and 40  on an iwl meter,not very much,the dyson and royal are between 70 and 98 total, but do not touch the kirby for fast and though rug cleaning, HAVE I LOST YOU YET? .

This is why a canister or tank set up cleans as well as any upright out there,with the right agitator or powerhead set up,The hey day of uprights are over,besides not to many people have carpeting in their homes anymore,except for a few scatter rugs here and there.

MOLE

Mole,

I misread your original post.  The DC14 that I owned had as much suctiion as the Kirby using Kirby's test procedure.  The Royal was not close.  When do you predict that uprights will go away?  It is difficult to find a cannster at any store or indy.  I have been in many expensive homes, old and new.  The bedrooms continue to be carpeted.

I can hold the Kirby hose a few inches from the baseboards and watch it pull the dust off them.  The Royal will not do this.  I disagree about the Kirby cleaning carpet better than the DC14.  During the Kirby demo the salesman had to work hard to get dirt out of the carpet and show on the filter that they use in the Kirby.

Now you and Carmine can understand why I have a difficult time with words coming from pros like you.  I realize there are some honest ones who do not bash everything that they do not sell.  Bashing another product means that you have something to hide in your product.

HS:

If you have proof, you can say for sure whether it happens and with what kind of frequency.  If you don't have proof, you're shooting from the hip, with no bases for saying how often it happens. 

Your last sentence is correct.  I said it first here before you.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

I have as much proof that it is happening as you do that it isn't.  You already know my story about the pro tring to sell me a motor for my Rainbow when it only needed brushes.

HS:

I have plenty of proof that replacement dyson parts are sold by authorized dyson retailers.  Several of the big box retailers authorized to sell dysons, like TARGET to mention one of the big ones, who carry and sell vacuum parts, have replacement dyson filters [pre/post motor] for sale.  Not sure of the prices and how they compare to the originals. 

My suspicion with your Rainbow repair [which if I recall correctly your son brought in, not you] is that the store was not an authorized Rainbow repair shop.  It did not sell Rainbows, nor did it want to take the vacuum in to check and repair.  This is not uncommon for vacuum stores to "blacklist" brands from their store.  Some vacuum stores are doing the same for dyson repairs.  Turning them away.  Routing dyson customers for sales, service and parts elsewhere.  Especially if they don't sell new/refurb dysons.  I have plenty of proof of latter also.  2 indy stores in Las Vegas avoid dysons like the plague.  Partly their aversion to bagless, partly the very high prices, and partly their inherent dislike for the Malay contractor workmanship. 

Carmine D.

Carmine,

It is not  a matter of whether the dealers sell after market parts.  It is a question of whether he uses these less expensive parts and charges for genuine (higher priced) parts.  The big box stores carry bags, filters, belts, etc.  They are on the shelf and the customer can see that they are not labeled with the genuine brand of the vacuum that they fit.  When a vac is serviced the dealer does not allow the customer in the repair area to watch.  Who knows what is really being repaired and what parts are used.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               I called the store prior to my son taking the Rainbow  in and they told me that they would service a Rainbow.  They supposedly service all major brands.

If a dealer does not service a brand as you describe then you can add that to another reason that I do not trust so many indy shops.  A polite " We do not service your brand" would be in order.  To simply accept the vacuum then report that some bogus repair is needed is stealing.

In your effort to respond you attributed your remarks to me as author?  Would you like me to respond to myself?

If I understand correctly your question, then you completely missed my point.  If a maker [say dyson] outsources its genuine parts to a generic parts supplier or vacuum maker [say panasonic for motors], then its prices to authorized dealers for the parts will be higher than they would be if the dealer buys direct from the outsource supplier [panasonic].  Simply because dyson [insert your own brand name of choise] is charging a middle man fee to the end dyson dealer for the processing and sale.

Dyson is required by contract to price all the parts the same to authorized dealers.  Not so with vacuum parts from suppliers even genuines.  These suppliers may offer better price deals to better dealers [read larger orders and rapid payment].  If I am a panasonic authorized dealer [and I was in NJ], AND I am not a dyson dealer, I might pay considerably less for the panasonic motor [for dyson] than a authorized dyson dealer pays for the motor from dyson.   In fact, I would guarantee it to be the case.  This is true for all the outsourced genuine parts.  At least it was when I was in business.  

Carmine D.

I simply implied that all brands have customers that are not enthralled with their purchase if they have a problem.  You could have said the same, however you always choose to single out Dyson.  Your bias shows and really ruins all credibility in your comments.

You are the one missing the point.  What you say about subbing parts applies to most consumer repaired goods.  I have not disputed the quality nor the price of after market prices.  Most manufacturers sub out as opposed to building in house.  The point is the dealer should not use parts that cost him less and charge the price that the customer would have paid for the branded one.  Again,  that is stealing.

We had a parts program where I previously worked.  We sold parts for practically all brands, not just ours.  This allowd our dealers buy their parts from a single source rather than from all the manufacturers.  It also kept our competition from getting in the back door.  These parts were not branded with the with the various manufacturer names.  I really have no idea what the dealer told their customer.  I would be surprised if some failed to tell the customer the difference. 

There are only a few manufacturers of compressors for residential air conditioners so you will likely get one of theirs in any brand.  Sometimes they are generic and sometimes they are built to spec for the manufacturer. Therefore they are not always of the same quality.