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DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

“Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Original Message   Jun 28, 2008 12:41 am

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

.

This message was modified Aug 2, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



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DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #1   Jun 28, 2008 12:51 am

...reporters got a little carried away by jumping to the conclusion that it means he IS developing a motor for cars.

Story here  and here.

This message was modified Jun 28, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #2   Jun 28, 2008 1:53 am
Hi DIB,

Fascinating articles, I've seen a lot of that surface lately about James' plans for improving the electric car.  But what really intrigued me is the canister pictured, I have not seen that model before.  I looked a bit through the Dyson websites in different countries and it appears to be a variant of the DC19 but I'm not positive.

-MH
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #3   Jun 28, 2008 3:47 am
Hey Motorhead,

I actually have 2 of these air seperators, it is the DC08.  There are 12 cyclones and a cluster of 3 in the center (which are a little smaller than the outer cyclones).  The shroud is the weak link, the DC21 shroud is much better.  I've been wanting to upload this photo for some time and so I'm glad you asked.  Enjoy.        DIB             Enlarge pic

P.S.  It is still for sale online as a special offer - the DC08

This message was modified Jun 28, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #4   Jun 28, 2008 6:30 am
So what's the news?  That's there's really no news!  That's news?  I said that about the original news story when several posters added it here.  It's not news.  It's hype.  Surprised?  Why?  If 450 dyson engineers can't improve the run time on its DC16 beyond 6 minutes on a battery charge, how on God's green earth can it build a battery charged electric car?  Dah!

Look at the facts fans.  What happened to dyson's original business logo and mantra:  Doesn't clog, doesn't lose suction.    That WAS the cornerstone of dyson's claim to fame.  Nothing but hype.  LIke the above newsstory.  It was false.  Untrue.  Dysons clog, dysons lose suction just like all bagged vacuums.  Even after 5127 dyson prototypes. 

What happened with the latest dysons DC24/25?  Same price, much more filter maintenance required by users to make the warranty effective.  More time and effort to keep the dysons working properly by users!  Why?  Answer, please.  DIB?  You said you know but won't say.  Afraid?  That's the news that all the dyson fans are ducking.  Why? 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 28, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #5   Jun 28, 2008 9:12 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Hey Motorhead,

I actually have 2 of these air seperators, it is the DC08.  There are 12 cyclones and a cluster of 3 in the center (which are a little smaller than the outer cyclones).  The shroud is the weak link, the DC21 shroud is much better.  I've been wanting to upload this photo for some time and so I'm glad you asked.  Enjoy.        DIB             Enlarge pic

P.S.  It is still for sale online as a special offer - the DC08


Look at all the pretty parts that break off just like the uprights.Can you say overpriced JUNK
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #6   Jun 28, 2008 12:25 pm
CarmineD wrote:
So what's the news?  That's there's really no news!  That's news?  I said that about the original news story when several posters added it here.  It's not news.  It's hype.  Surprised?  Why?  If 450 dyson engineers can't improve the run time on its DC16 beyond 6 minutes on a battery charge, how on God's green earth can it build a battery charged electric car?  Dah!

Look at the facts fans.  What happened to dyson's original business logo and mantra:  Doesn't clog, doesn't lose suction.    That WAS the cornerstone of dyson's claim to fame.  Nothing but hype.  LIke the above newsstory.  It was false.  Untrue.  Dysons clog, dysons lose suction just like all bagged vacuums.  Even after 5127 dyson prototypes. 

What happened with the latest dysons DC24/25?  Same price, much more filter maintenance required by users to make the warranty effective.  More time and effort to keep the dysons working properly by users!  Why?  Answer, please.  DIB?  You said you know but won't say.  Afraid?  That's the news that all the dyson fans are ducking.  Why? 

Carmine D.


Carmine,

Hype?  Can you demonstrate a Dyson press release stating Dyson was getting into the car motor (not battery) business?  I have seen not one.  The media gets excited around super successful inventors and leaders.  One misquote led to much news, it spread like wild fire online, and ALL FOR FREE!  This guy is loved and gets much free press, even when he only speaks.  Your fav guy cannot steal press like this.  J

 

Filtration:

I understand very well the Dyson filtration.  It would be most unkind for me to discuss this filtration openly.  I loath the garbage kapok so-call industry standard test done by bad mouthing of Dyson dealers and so why in the hell would I help these desperate rats bad mouth Dyson any further?

 

No Clogging:

Call Mr. O and ask how his bogas lawsuit is going with suing Dyson over the no clogging and/or no loss of suction.  Mr. O circumvented the FTC and the agreed (upon by manufacturers for fast and cheap) decisions of NAD and instead sued.  Those who sell tired product tend to sue.        DIB


mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #7   Jun 28, 2008 1:06 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote

 

Filtration:

I understand very well the Dyson filtration.  It would be most unkind for me to discuss this filtration openly.  I loath the garbage kapok so-call industry standard test done by bad mouthing of Dyson dealers and so why in the hell would I help these desperate rats bad mouth Dyson any further.        DIB



Why dont you tell us ther truth,and say it will cost you your job.

MOLE

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #8   Jun 28, 2008 7:06 pm
mole wrote:
Why dont you tell us ther truth,and say it will cost you your job.

MOLE

BINGO! EUREKA! That's it MOLE. Mr. DIB's posted here before in regards to one of my posts that he fears saying something without sanction. Why? Due to the possibility of a lawsuit. He has a family to consider. Kudos for his family concern. If that's the reason for his silence about the compromised dyson filtration in the DC24/25, then he should say so. Rather than beat around the bush with all the smoke and mirrors.

Keep up the good work Mr. MOLE and keep your posts coming. I enjoy your analytical and thoughtful observations about the strengths and weaknesses of all vacuums. Even if the truth offends the dyson fans and admirers who hold the Sir Knight in such high esteem.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 28, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #9   Jun 28, 2008 9:47 pm

Mr. Carmine,

50 years in the vacuum business and you plead with me to explain cyclonic’s?        DIB

This message was modified Jun 29, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #10   Jun 29, 2008 6:18 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:

Mr. Carmine,

50 years in the vacuum business and you plead with me to explain cyclonic’s?        DIB



Mr. DIB

Absolutely, I'm all ears and eyes.  If that's what it takes for you to come clean and tell us what you know about the compromised dyson filtration on the DC24/25 and when, then so be it.  I'm never too old and/or too smart to learn. 

 Still afraid Mr. DIB?  Do the right thing!  Tell the truth.  The truth will set you free.

Carmine D.

PS:  A sidebar on your comments about the ORECK-dyson lawsuit:  If Mr. D took the route Mr. O took with the lawsuit, you would call him a maverick.  You would praise Mr. D for his unwillingness to take the easy road and instead take the road less travelled.  ORECK does it and what do you say?  You impugn Dave, his company, and his products.  All of which are irrelevant to the lawsuit against dyson which is about the truth.  Where you stand, depends on where you sit. 

I can't and won't speak for ORECK just myself.  I object to the NAD settlement/resolution.  It doesn't go far enough.  The dyson claim: Never loses suction is a half-truth [read misleading].  Dyson buyers are deceived unless and until the claim includes the printed warning: IF YOU PERFORM THE FILTER CLEANINGS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS.     That's one BIG IF.

When people take an oath in a court of law in the US to tell the truth, they put one hand on the Bible and with the other arm lifted in the air and raised to GOD they say:  I swear to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me GOD.  They don't say anything about half the truth.  It is a criminal offense to take this oath and lie.  It's called perjury and obstruction of justice. 

YOU GO DAVE ORECK!

This message was modified Jun 29, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #11   Jun 29, 2008 11:55 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:

Mr. Carmine,

50 years in the vacuum business and you plead with me to explain cyclonic’s?        DIB

CarmineD wrote:
Mr. DIB

Absolutely, I'm all ears and eyes.  If that's what it takes for you to come clean and tell us what you know about the compromised dyson filtration on the DC24/25 and when, then so be it.  I'm never too old and/or too smart to learn. 

 Still afraid Mr. DIB?  Do the right thing!  Tell the truth.  The truth will set you free.

Carmine D.

PS:  A sidebar on your comments about the ORECK-dyson lawsuit:  If Mr. D took the route Mr. O took with the lawsuit, you would call him a maverick.  You would praise Mr. D for his unwillingness to take the easy road and instead take the road less travelled.  ORECK does it and what do you say?  You impugn Dave, his company, and his products.  All of which are irrelevant to the lawsuit against dyson which is about the truth.  Where you stand, depends on where you sit. 

I can't and won't speak for ORECK just myself.  I object to the NAD settlement/resolution.  It doesn't go far enough.  The dyson claim: Never loses suction is a half-truth [read misleading].  Dyson buyers are deceived unless and until the claim includes the printed warning: IF YOU PERFORM THE FILTER CLEANINGS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS.     That's one BIG IF.

When people take an oath in a court of law in the US to tell the truth, they put one hand on the Bible and with the other arm lifted in the air and raised to GOD they say:  I swear to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me GOD.  They don't say anything about half the truth.  It is a criminal offense to take this oath and lie.  It's called perjury and obstruction of justice. 

YOU GO DAVE ORECK!

Carmine D.

Carmine, I find many of the things James does interesting, I'm not an employee.  After much study and thought did I learn what I know of the Dyson filtration, I do not profess to be expert.  I stated my why’s of not disclosing my "learnings" earlier. 

.

I’d love to chat some more, but I am heading out for vacation.  Talk later.        DIB

 P.S.  I am already free, He paid my bill a long time ago.

This message was modified Jun 29, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #12   Jun 29, 2008 3:51 pm
DIB:

Enjoy your vacation.  We'll take up where we left off with dyson filtration when you return. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #13   Jun 29, 2008 7:42 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Mr. DIB

YOU GO DAVE ORECK!



Please go and take Carmine and mole.  
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #14   Jun 29, 2008 10:04 pm
HS:

I'd certainly support ORECK and favor its chances of winning.  Why?  The NAD ruling was clearly against dyson. 

Of concern in the legal proceedings is whether ORECK is allowed to use the DC24/25 as evidence.  Why?  The case filing predates these dyson models.  If dyson wins and continues to use the "NO LOSS OF SUCTION" mantra with the DC24/25, then ORECK would have to file a motion to reopen the case and introduce the DC24/25 as evidence in support of its position.  Then ORECK will IMHO win.  And dyson will have to drop the claim/qualify it with a warning about the filter cleanings. 

Either way, the writing is on the wall for dyson.  DIB will avoid any mention of the compromised dyson filtration for fear of giving ORECK ammunition to use against dyson.  Just as MOLE said.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 29, 2008 by CarmineD
Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #15   Jun 29, 2008 11:14 pm
Oreck HAS no evidence.  Why?   The plain and simple truth of the matter is on the DC24/25, the diameter of the HEPA exhaust filter (which mostly serves the purpose of catching carbon-brush dust from the motor and not much else) has been reduced in order for the filter to be contained in the Ball assembly and eliminate the ducting to the separate filter compartment as on the DC15.  First of all, DYSON errs on the side of caution and believes that the DC24 or 25 will be used to clean a large house with infrequent emptying (i.e. allowing the bin to go beyond full capacity on each use).  Some of you may be thinking that the DC24 or 25 are lightweight uprights and theoretically for smaller homes, right?  WRONG!  Unlike Oreck, DYSON does not make that generalization and believes that any of its machines, regardless of how large or small they are, will be used for any purpose in any size home.  THAT is the reason for the more frequent filter cleaning intervals.  Not only because of the diameter, but because of the potential for heat to build up in the motor compartment in the Ball if the machine is used in a large home with infrequent emptying and the pre-motor filter (which is mounted in the usual spot above the bin) is left neglected over long periods of time.  If the bin is frequently allowed to get beyond full capacity, no doubt a minute amount of fine dust will make its way to the pre-motor filter a few times; more than would occur if the machine was used properly as it was intended and emptied frequently, of course.  Sure, the cyclone separators are good, but as with anything else, can only do so much.  DYSON is obviously aware of this potential.  As anyone can see that has absolutely NOTHING to do with clogging or losing suction, it is just a heavy use scenario.  Obviously if you are going to use a DC24 to clean a 3000 sq. ft.  house and only expect to empty it once (allowing the dirt to pass the MAX line each time it is used), yes, you WILL have to clean the filters more often, that goes without saying!  The filters have to be cleaned because the machine can clean. 

While we're on the subject of filter cleaning intervals for the DC24/25, you may notice the intervals at which the filters should be removed and washed...3-6 months.  Again, that is DYSON being cautious (realizing the potential for heavy use) and warning the owner as such.  In reality, the filters can be left alone for 6 months to a year (if not longer) with regular, proper use (read: frequent emptying during normal cleaning, and vacuum large amounts of extra-fine substances slowly) and the machine will fare just fine under normal circumstances, holding true to the fact that it never clogs, or loses suction.  The same wonderful fact (no half-truth about it, sorry Carmine and Oreck) which is, always has been, and always will be proudly displayed on both the box and the machine. 

The reason this is the first time we have heard of this is because the DC15, due to the separate compartment (and the ducting running from the Ball to said compartment), uses a large-diameter permanent exhaust filter like the others. 

What does this mean?  Two words: General Maintenance.  Filter washing is done at the same frequency as changing the belt on an Awfulwreck, but not necessarily required (usually under normal use the filter is not that dirty when going by Dyson's 3-to-6-month intervals, and the machine is still delivering the same performance it did when new), and MUCH easier

-MH
This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by Motorhead
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #16   Jun 30, 2008 7:19 am
Motorhead wrote:
In reality, the filters can be left alone for 6 months to a year (if not longer) with regular, proper use (read: frequent emptying during normal cleaning, and vacuum large amounts of extra-fine substances slowly) and the machine will fare just fine under normal circumstances, holding true to the fact that it never clogs, or loses suction.  The same wonderful fact (no half-truth about it, sorry Carmine and Oreck) which is, always has been, and always will be proudly displayed on both the box and the machine. 

-MH



Hello Motor:

Spoken like a true dyson fan with irreverence for the facts.  So, you're pinch hitting for DIB while he's on vacation?  Did DIB sanction you!  

As usual, you are wrong.  The NAD decision ruled that dyson and retailers are not allowed to say the dyson filters don't clog.  Because they do clog and 36 dissatisfied dyson customers along with HOOVER and ORECK took exception to the dyson claim, they protested the claim saying its hype and untrue, and they prevailed.  Dyson lost.  Hence, the revised dyson mantra:  Never loses suction.  All the dyson references to the old claim have been scrubbed and new product lit and cartons reflect dyson/retailers' compliance.  Some, like you, thought dyson can just move on.  Not ORECK.  Hence the court case.

Did you get sanctioned by DIB to post this info about the dyson degradation of filtering?  DIB is the Forum poster who claimed authoritative knowledge of the compromised dyson filtration.  Not you!  DIB has remained conspicuously silent on the matter [probably fearing the ORECK-dyson lawsuit implications].  You're not.  You poured forth like an untapped well of knowledge just waiting to gush!    Pride and ego, the worse of sins.

Do you know when DIB is due back.  Curious to hear his perspective on your post.  If he's still speaking to you.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #17   Jun 30, 2008 7:57 am
Motor:

How well do you remember your fairy tales?  Remember the one where the dog stops to rest and misses catching the rabbit?  If only the dog didn't stop to rest, it would have caught the rabbit.  IF!  Your post reminds me of the fairy tale. Only your post is chuck full of IF-s.

Carmine D. 

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #18   Jun 30, 2008 9:38 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Motor:

Spoken like a true dyson fan with irreverence for the facts.  So, you're pinch hitting for DIB while he's on vacation?  Did DIB sanction you!  

As usual, you are wrong.  The NAD decision ruled that dyson and retailers are not allowed to say the dyson filters don't clog.  Because they do clog and 36 dissatisfied dyson customers along with HOOVER and ORECK took exception to the dyson claim, they protested the claim saying its hype and untrue, and they prevailed.  Dyson lost.  Hence, the revised dyson mantra:  Never loses suction.  All the dyson references to the old claim have been scrubbed and new product lit and cartons reflect dyson/retailers' compliance.  Some, like you, thought dyson can just move on.  Not ORECK.  Hence the court case.

Did you get sanctioned by DIB to post this info about the dyson degradation of filtering?  DIB is the Forum poster who claimed authoritative knowledge of the compromised dyson filtration.  Not you!  DIB has remained conspicuously silent on the matter [probably fearing the ORECK-dyson lawsuit implications].  You're not.  You poured forth like an untapped well of knowledge just waiting to gush!    Pride and ego, the worse of sins.

Do you know when DIB is due back.  Curious to hear his perspective on your post.  If he's still speaking to you.

Carmine D.


Dyson has been EXPOSED for what they really are,the overpiced hyped doesnt clean your carpets any better than a 39.95 dirt devil, they just cost more to fix,

IT'S soon to be just another big box machine sitting on the shelf,that has to be dusted off every week[,but are pleasing to look at wild colors] The bins can also be used as a bird feeder,Carmine and I told you so ,its just too bad that the public did not catch on sooner,I must say that the DYSON marketing department is one of the best propaganda machines in the industry,Now we and the public know that the gig is up,Is the return center filled up to the max yet?

Whats next another overpriced hand vac with a sr motor that costs 599.00[HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,........

MOLE

Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #19   Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Motor:

How well do you remember your fairy tales?  Remember the one where the dog stops to rest and misses catching the rabbit?  If only the dog didn't stop to rest, it would have caught the rabbit.  IF!  Your post reminds me of the fairy tale. Only your post is chuck full of IF-s.

Carmine D. 


Carmine, speaking of fairy tales, this is yet another example of you repeating your own lies over and over again, and eventually believing it.  Sort of like the statement about the U-bend on the DC07.  When I was at Wal-Mart last week to pick up another new machine (more on that later), I noticed the DC07 Original on the shelf right next to it.  I pulled the display model down, looked it over, and sure enough, the U-bend was exactly the same as all of the other DC07s I had seen in the past 6 years.  No changes whatsoever. 

Just like your claim about Dyson being forced to remove the "filters that don't clog" statement.  In the new DC25 brochure, "no clogging or loss of suction" is mentioned several times throughout.  You had mentioned the removal of this statement before the introduction of the DC24/25, and it's still there on a brand new model.  What happened?

-MH
Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #20   Jun 30, 2008 12:17 pm
mole wrote:
Dyson has been EXPOSED for what they really are,the overpiced hyped doesnt clean your carpets any better than a 39.95 dirt devil, they just cost more to fix,

IT'S soon to be just another big box machine sitting on the shelf,that has to be dusted off every week[,but are pleasing to look at wild colors] The bins can also be used as a bird feeder,Carmine and I told you so ,its just too bad that the public did not catch on sooner,I must say that the DYSON marketing department is one of the best propaganda machines in the industry,Now we and the public know that the gig is up,Is the return center filled up to the max yet?

Whats next another overpriced hand vac with a sr motor that costs 599.00[HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,........

MOLE


In you and Carmine's eyes, Dyson is always "soon to be" *something*.  Soon to disappear from the shelves, soon to be "scrubbed", etc.  But it never is.

I'd work on improving my "predictions" if I were you.  The track record on both of your posts isn't that great, to say the least.
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #21   Jun 30, 2008 1:38 pm
Motorhead wrote:
Carmine, speaking of fairy tales, this is yet another example of you repeating your own lies over and over again, and eventually believing it.  Sort of like the statement about the U-bend on the DC07.  When I was at Wal-Mart last week to pick up another new machine (more on that later), I noticed the DC07 Original on the shelf right next to it.  I pulled the display model down, looked it over, and sure enough, the U-bend was exactly the same as all of the other DC07s I had seen in the past 6 years.  No changes whatsoever. 

Just like your claim about Dyson being forced to remove the "filters that don't clog" statement.  In the new DC25 brochure, "no clogging or loss of suction" is mentioned several times throughout.  You had mentioned the removal of this statement before the introduction of the DC24/25, and it's still there on a brand new model.  What happened?

-MH



Motor:

Here's the truth.  Within the first year of launch, dyson retooled the DC07 u-bend air way joint.  Making it permanent on the DC07-s and not removable.  It was removable originally on the first and early DC-07's supposedly to allow users to clear clogs/blockages.  It had a yellow thumb tab on it to depress to remove/attach.  People thought it was the handle release and would step on the thumb tab.  The piece came off and most stores' staff didn't know how to attach it.  It remained along side the dyson display model/still in the box never used.  Result:  No suction in the tool mode.  Fix:  Dyson knew a buck item was poised to derail its launch, and made the piece permanent.  Quick like. 

Good thing ORECK stayed the course and took dyson to court.  I have not seen the latest DC24/25 product lit.  But, if dyson is still using the false claim, then dyson is violating the NAD ruling and subject to punitive and monetary disciplinary actions.  Dyson isn't that stupid.  Even the dyson retailers have long dropped the use of the false dyson claim.  

Carmine D. 

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #22   Jun 30, 2008 1:53 pm
Motorhead wrote:
In you and Carmine's eyes, Dyson is always "soon to be" *something*.  Soon to disappear from the shelves, soon to be "scrubbed", etc.  But it never is.

I'd work on improving my "predictions" if I were you.  The track record on both of your posts isn't that great, to say the least.


Motor:

The writing for dyson is on the wall.  Look at the UK.  From 43 percent vacuum market share in 2004 to 28 percent in 2007.  Based on the facts, our prediction was accurate.  Dyson sales in Mr. D's country of original are off an average of 5 percent a year for 3 consecutive years steady. 

BTW, weren't you the one here who said dyson new vacuum sales in the USA were 4 MILLION units in 2007?  Was that a prediction?  It was wrong!  Certainly not a fact.  According to the dyson expert here, Matt mmc AirBlade, 2 Million dyson units [not counting returns and refunds] were sold in 2007.  You were wrong by a factor of 100 percent.  

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #23   Jun 30, 2008 4:08 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Motor:

The writing for dyson is on the wall.  Look at the UK.  From 43 percent vacuum market share in 2004 to 28 percent in 2007.  Based on the facts, our prediction was accurate.  Dyson sales in Mr. D's country of original are off an average of 5 percent a year for 3 consecutive years steady. 

BTW, weren't you the one here who said dyson new vacuum sales in the USA were 4 MILLION units in 2007?  Was that a prediction?  It was wrong!  Certainly not a fact.  According to the dyson expert here, Matt mmc AirBlade, 2 Million dyson units [not counting returns and refunds] were sold in 2007.  You were wrong by a factor of 100 percent.  

Carmine D.



Neither you nor mole predicted the Dyson sales to drop in the UK.  Once again you lie.  You said for three years that each new Dyson would put Dyson out of business and I said you were wrong.  I was correct.

You saind numerous times that BB was discontinueing Dyson and again I disagreed.  I was right again.  Your predictions are not so accurate.

JackD


Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Points: 6

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #24   Jun 30, 2008 4:19 pm
CarmineD wrote:

Good thing ORECK stayed the course and took dyson to court.  I have not seen the latest DC24/25 product lit.  But, if dyson is still using the false claim, then dyson is violating the NAD ruling and subject to punitive and monetary disciplinary actions.  Dyson isn't that stupid.  Even the dyson retailers have long dropped the use of the false dyson claim.  

Carmine D. 

First post here and I am curious.  I keep reading a couple posters saying that Dyson can no longer use this claim and yet :

 "no loss of suction"

and  statements like

"Dyson proves no loss of suction using the IEC 60312 Cl 2.9 test standard on uprights and canister
vacuums and using a test method based on the IEC 60312 Cl 2.9 standard for the handheld.

Dyson proves no loss of suction, best average pick up, and 'overall outcleans other vacuums' using results from
IEC 60312 Cl 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.8, 2.9, ASTM F608 and F558, and DTM 755— an independently conducted Dyson test."

Are plastered all over thier webpage.  Are some here not understanding a ruling correctly, just blowing smoke to make an argument, or is Dyson in violation of a court order?

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #25   Jun 30, 2008 5:26 pm
Hello JackD and welcome aboard:

Here's a synopsis based on my understanding.  I speak for myself and not a representative of any of the companies and customers directly involved in the matter. 

It's not a court ruling, but an NAD ruling.  NAD is a USA industry arbitrator who facilitates cases brought by customers and companies against businesses who make false, misleading, and deceptive advertising claims [read: untrue].

NAD and dyson.  The original dyson claim, also once used by retailers advertising dysons, WAS:  No clogging, therefore no loss of suction.  Dissatisfied dyson customers [read: with clogged dysons that lost suction] along with ORECK and HOOVER brought the dyson claim before the NAD.  Based on the evidence, NAD ruled that dyson could no longer say its vacuums didn't clog [read filters].  Dyson revised its claim to: Never losses suction.  Retailers stopped using the claim in print.

ORECK [possibly encouraged by other vacuum makers sitting on the sidelines monitoring the developments] decided to proceed against dyson with a legal action.  ORECK's right.  That's where it stands.  In court awaiting a hearing, trial and ruling. 

Hope that assists you in getting brought up to date.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #26   Jun 30, 2008 6:11 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
Neither you nor mole predicted the Dyson sales to drop in the UK.  Once again you lie.  You said for three years that each new Dyson would put Dyson out of business and I said you were wrong.  I was correct.


HS:

What makes you think the USA is different than the UK?  I quote you this because it was an overused statement on many vacuum forums to convince consumers that the USA would fall for dyson the same way as the UK.  Contrarily, the reverse is true.  We can expect here what's already happend in the UK. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #27   Jun 30, 2008 6:15 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
... You said for three years that each new Dyson would put Dyson out of business and I said you were wrong.  I was correct.

You saind numerous times that BB was discontinueing Dyson and again I disagreed.  I was right again.  Your predictions are not so accurate.


HS:

Over the last few weeks, several posters here provided you with incontrovertible proof that all the major retailers are culling dyson vacuums from their shelves with discounted prices advertised much lower than dyson MAP.  MOLE and I predicted this would come to pass with the big box store venues and dysons.  It has.   One dyson supporter, Dusty, recently posted that he agrees with us as it concerns dyson and big box stores.   

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #28   Jun 30, 2008 6:17 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
... You said for three years that each new Dyson would put Dyson out of business and I said you were wrong.  I was correct.

You saind numerous times that BB was discontinueing Dyson and again I disagreed.  I was right again.  Your predictions are not so accurate.


HS:

Let's recap 6 years of dyson facts and circumstances in the USA and our predictions.  

The DC07 and DC14, supposedly the dyson signature models [you owned the DC07 but sold it], are being discontinued and sold on clearance by all the major retailers.  The DC07 as low as $289 this week.  Brand new.  From an MSRP of $439.  MOLE and I predicted this would happen.  

The DC11 canister for $499 was pulled off the USA markets after 9 months.  I was one of 2 of the biggest critics of its puny power nozzle as early as April 2004.  Right again.

The DC15 original Ball was launched for $699 in March 2005.  By September, dyson dropped the price to $599 starting with BEST BUY stores, as I predicted .  Currently, it is $499 and less. 

The DC16 cordless hand held has a 5 minute run time.  Disgraceful for a $150 vacuum product.  I was a huge critic of the product when HSN demoed it and one went dead on air in less than 2 minutes.  It is currently being discounted by dyson for $49 with any new dyson purchase.  Right once more.

One major USA rug maker voided its warranty if any of the dyson vacuums are used on its carpets. 

Consumer Reports consistently rates all the dysons, save the DC17, as fair to middlin at best in a field of many less expensive makes and models.  Even the DC17, with an original MSRP of $549, is discounted now for $499 [before other buyer incentives]. 

The DC16 Slim for $469 [supposedly dyson's best selling sku] is currently being sold for $369 and is being scrubbed by most big box retailers after just 2 years on the market. 

The DC24/25 are too new to have a past.  But the filtering is seriously degraded from the earlier dyson models.  Still researching and learning the reasons.  Tho MOLE posted the reasons in a post awhile back.  And we are slowly learning he's right.

The air watts and dirt bin capacities have been consistently down sized with subsequent dyson model.  Now the filter maintenance is also increased.  Making the user more burdened with performing frequent filter cleanings which degrade the life of the filters.  Prices are the same and/higher.

A sad commentary for dyson, its products and dyson fans who praise them.  The only glimmer of hope that dyson can point to here in the USA is the reliability rating it received from Consumers Report in March 2008.  It was second only to Kirby.   But this is the first time it was rated for reliability.  CR adds the caveat that the rating must be sustained to be meaningful.  Time will tell.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
JackD


Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Points: 6

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #29   Jun 30, 2008 6:34 pm
Isn't high product turnover good for a company?  I mean what company doesn't want new product turnover to boost the bottom line with resales?  As I read here there definitely seems to be a healthy "Dyson" debate with a couple of posters on both sides.  It is obvious by the Pro Dyson side who they like, but I am curious what company the other sides posters prefer?  Is there currently a more succesful company that you guys stand behind?  If so how do they hold prices in these economic times, re sell without product line turnover, and how are they currently more succesful than Dyson?  It just seems so easy to nit pick a company if all you are going to do is take the negative side so I am wondering what you see as the current and climbing success story.
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #30   Jun 30, 2008 6:44 pm
Hello JackD:

Can I conclude, since you have changed directions in your posts, that your concerns are satisfied at least for now with the dyson printed claims, their revisions, and the events and dialogue surrounding them?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
JackD


Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Points: 6

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #31   Jun 30, 2008 7:14 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello JackD:

Can I conclude, since you have changed directions in your posts, that your concerns are satisfied at least for now with the dyson printed claims, their revisions, and the events and dialogue surrounding them?

Carmine D.



Not really, I am still researching.  A little confused by the posts here.  Seems to be both some strong support for Dyson here as well as what seems to be some vitriol towards the company and/or product.  I guess I am just first trying to figure out what the animosity is about from both sides as well as trying to figure out some facts as I don't think I could figure them out from this site alone as it appears to be a bit of emotional "gotcha" rather than Pro and Con discussion.  I suspect there is not really a "consumer" debate going on here but a few "insiders" looking to influence the market in thier direction.  I do appreciate the answer and the point in the right direction but in reading the posts I think I might be better off looking for the answer myself.

I guess my follow-up was really just trying to figure out what the Non-Dyson side's "angle" was as the other side seems obvious.  So I really didn't "change direction" in my posts I am still fact finding, perhaps guards may come up quickly here.

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by JackD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #32   Jun 30, 2008 7:40 pm
Perhaps others will respond and provide some more answers and insight for you. 

Most of the posters here, unlike you, are veteran posters of many years on several different vacuum Forums.  Going back to even before dyson launched in the USA in 2002. 

Not having the benefit of the past history and personalities, it's understandable to look at this site now and have the view you have.  Particularly about the persons who critique dyson.  It's like reading the last page of a novel, learning about the death of the protagonist, and asking why.  Well to get the answer, you need to read the beginning, middle and end of the novel.  Then, it all comes together.  Unfortunately they don't make/sell Cliff Notes for Vacuum Forums with the main characters, themes and plot neatly summarized!

I was in the vacuum business from 1949 to 1992.  I owned and operated a vacuum store in Bloomfield NJ.  I sold the business to another vacuum dealer who still has the store.  He and I still talk and keep up to date on the bsuiness.  The store is an historic landmark on the Newark, Bloomfield, Belleville border lines.  After 1992, I was a self-employed consultant to the industry working for both private and government entities on all matters related to vacuums.  In August 2006,  I retired and moved to Las Vegas.  I receive at least one offer of part/full-time employment every week related to the vacuum business.   So far, I've turned them all down.  Some reluctantly.  Not for love of money, but love of the business. 

I trust your research and fact finding will be successful.  If I can assist, I certainly will try.  If you prefer private emails, that's fine too.  Just send me a message offline and I will answer in kind.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #33   Jun 30, 2008 9:10 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello JackD and welcome aboard:

Here's a synopsis based on my understanding.  I speak for myself and not a representative of any of the companies and customers directly involved in the matter. 

It's not a court ruling, but an NAD ruling.  NAD is a USA industry arbitrator who facilitates cases brought by customers and companies against businesses who make false, misleading, and deceptive advertising claims [read: untrue].

NAD and dyson.  The original dyson claim, also once used by retailers advertising dysons, WAS:  No clogging, therefore no loss of suction.  Dissatisfied dyson customers [read: with clogged dysons that lost suction] along with ORECK and HOOVER brought the dyson claim before the NAD.  Based on the evidence, NAD ruled that dyson could no longer say its vacuums didn't clog [read filters].  Dyson revised its claim to: Never losses suction.  Retailers stopped using the claim in print.

ORECK [possibly encouraged by other vacuum makers sitting on the sidelines monitoring the developments] decided to proceed against dyson with a legal action.  ORECK's right.  That's where it stands.  In court awaiting a hearing, trial and ruling. 

Hope that assists you in getting brought up to date.

Carmine D.

HI Carmine,

Is this a different lawsuit from the first two?  As I understand the first Oreck / Dyson suit was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum of money.  Part of the settlement however was that Dyson could continue saying "no loss of suction" about any of it's current product sold in the USA.  When the DC18 came out, Oreck sued again over the same thing but the case was dismissed because the earlier case had been settled and was not subject to any appeal.

Dusty
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #34   Jun 30, 2008 9:56 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Here's the truth.  Within the first year of launch, dyson retooled the DC07 u-bend air way joint.  Making it permanent on the DC07-s and not removable.  It was removable originally on the first and early DC-07's supposedly to allow users to clear clogs/blockages.  It had a yellow thumb tab on it to depress to remove/attach.  People thought it was the handle release and would step on the thumb tab.  The piece came off and most stores' staff didn't know how to attach it.  It remained along side the dyson display model/still in the box never used.  Result:  No suction in the tool mode.  Fix:  Dyson knew a buck item was poised to derail its launch, and made the piece permanent.  Quick like. 

I would encourage you to take a look at a DC07 somewhere.  Any that I have in stock have a removable air joint and even the Dyson websites (US and Canada) clearly show a thumb tab to remove the elbow (choose the 360 view)

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #35   Jun 30, 2008 10:20 pm
dusty wrote:
I would encourage you to take a look at a DC07 somewhere.  Any that I have in stock have a removable air joint and even the Dyson websites (US and Canada) clearly show a thumb tab to remove the elbow (choose the 360 view)

Dusty

Hello Dusty:

You're in Canada, and it was late to the dyson sales game.  Just the last 3 years if I understood correctly.  I suspect you're getting old dyson DC07 stock before the u bend airway was made permanent.  And the dyson pics are old.  All the DC07-s now in the USA [that I have seen in stores since the launch of 2002] have a permanent u bend airway joint.  The removable one has been obsolete here in the USA.  I speak with experience in several states on both coasts.

It's an important piece.  Without it, the vacuum has no suction in the tool mode. [FYI: The DC07 pink I bought in August 2006 from TARGET had a very permanent u bend airway joint with no thumb tab to be seen and still does]. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #36   Jun 30, 2008 10:45 pm
dusty wrote:
HI Carmine,

Is this a different lawsuit from the first two?  As I understand the first Oreck / Dyson suit was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum of money.  Part of the settlement however was that Dyson could continue saying "no loss of suction" about any of it's current product sold in the USA.  When the DC18 came out, Oreck sued again over the same thing but the case was dismissed because the earlier case had been settled and was not subject to any appeal.

Dusty


Dusty:

It was not a suit with the NAD.  It was hearing with an industry sanctioned authority [NAD] whose ruling is binding on all the parties who agree to the hearing. 

I took the liberty to highlight the relevant words in your post.  Perhaps that is the reason ORECK subsequently filed a lawsuit against dyson with the DC18 and by-passed the NAD?  As I presume ORECK will do with all new dysons in the USA if the claim is used.  I believe ORECK is being encouraged by several vacuum makers [who are watching the proceedings closely] to pursue legal action against dyson.  IMHO. 

Of particular note for future:  Observe whether big box retailers use the dyson claim "Never loses suction" when advertising dysons for sale by their stores.  Most if not all avoid it.  Why?  I don't know if there is some legal reason, concern or suspicions on their part.  Or, and more importantly, they know it is false because they have real world experiences with new dysons under warranty that clog and lose suction returned by unhappy buyers.  If the latter, it will support ORECK's suit IMHO.  Is there a correlation with these dyson returns and the high number of dyson refurbs for sale?  A question that ORECK will raise and answer its court proceedings against dyson.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 30, 2008 by CarmineD
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #37   Jul 1, 2008 1:27 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Dusty:

You're in Canada, and it was late to the dyson sales game.  Just the last 3 years if I understood correctly.  I suspect you're getting old dyson DC07 stock before the u bend airway was made permanent.  And the dyson pics are old.  All the DC07-s now in the USA [that I have seen in stores since the launch of 2002] have a permanent u bend airway joint.  The removable one has been obsolete here in the USA.  I speak with experience in several states on both coasts.

It's an important piece.  Without it, the vacuum has no suction in the tool mode. [FYI: The DC07 pink I bought in August 2006 from TARGET had a very permanent u bend airway joint with no thumb tab to be seen and still does]. 

Carmine D.


3ish years is correct, give or take a month or two.  If I'm getting old stock, then everybody is getting old stock.  I have never seen a DC07 or DC14 with a permanent UBend (a trip to Future Shop this evening affirms this) .   Perhaps it's just something at has happened on American models?  The Dyson US website also shows how to remove a blockage from the UBend in all DC07's, the pink included. Kind of odd they haven't updated since they launched, don't you think?

I agree it's an important piece.  We make a point of showing our customers how to maintain the product they are buying and most would agree it's a good idea to have access points if a blockage were to occur. Case in point, we removed a pencil crayon from said area after a customers kid was a little over zealous cleaning their room.  The customer btw, had previously bought from Linens and Things...before you go accusing me of not really explaining my product very well :-)

Dusty
This message was modified Jul 1, 2008 by dusty
Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #38   Jul 1, 2008 1:40 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Dusty:

You're in Canada, and it was late to the dyson sales game.  Just the last 3 years if I understood correctly.  I suspect you're getting old dyson DC07 stock before the u bend airway was made permanent.  And the dyson pics are old.  All the DC07-s now in the USA [that I have seen in stores since the launch of 2002] have a permanent u bend airway joint.  The removable one has been obsolete here in the USA.  I speak with experience in several states on both coasts.

It's an important piece.  Without it, the vacuum has no suction in the tool mode. [FYI: The DC07 pink I bought in August 2006 from TARGET had a very permanent u bend airway joint with no thumb tab to be seen and still does]. 

Carmine D.


Carmine, let me ask you a somewhat philosophical question:  Is the U-bend permanent simply because you do not know how to take it off?  Or, rather, because you do not know how to remove the U-bend, does that mean everyone should believe it is permanent? 
This message was modified Jul 1, 2008 by Motorhead
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #39   Jul 1, 2008 7:03 am
Motor, Dusty:

Well let me say this:  The dyson u bend airway joint does NOT come off and stay off as easily as it did with the original launch of the DC07-s.  At that time, it had a prominent thumb tab that users stepped on to release the handle.  Only to learn that the u bend air way joint fell off and no one could replace it.  The dyson Users Guide didn't address it's removal and replacement at the time  Tool suction was zip.  Frequently, the piece was found sitting along side the display models and/or still in the box in the warehouse.

My DC07 pink, now retired from service for inability to perform as well as less expensive uprights, has no thumb tab to remove the joint, has not fallen off ,and has not been taken off since August 2006.  That makes it permanent to me.  Certainly makes it retooled from the original form and design.  How's that for dyson accuracy and correctness?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 1, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #40   Jul 1, 2008 7:20 am
Dusty, you may not recall, but it is common knowledge that many dyson users, not just me, and even dyson fans criticized the first wave of dyson vacuums for having miscellaneous pieces that fall off. 

Consumer Reports was most vocal.  Motor should remember very well the very first Consumer Reports review of the dyson DC07.  Why?  It was a lousy review.  Why?  CR was extremely critical of the dirt bin on the DC07.  Why?  The release button to disengage it from the vacuum was prone to be pressed when picked up by the bin handle by the user.  Result:  The user was left holding the dirty bin and the vacuum (18 pounds) was on the user's foot.  There is a picture engraved in my mind of the dirty deed in action in the CR edition.  Not Mr. D's finest hour.

Dyson corrected that problem too.  

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 1, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #41   Jul 1, 2008 7:37 am
CarmineD wrote:
Motor, Dusty:

Well let me say this:  The dyson u bend airway joint does NOT come come off and stay off as easily as it did with the original launch of the DC07-s.  At that time, it had a prominent thumb tab that users stepped on to release the handle.  Only to learn that the u bend air way joint fell off and no one could replace it.  The dyson Users Guide didn't address it's removal and replacement at the time  Tool suction was zip.  Frequently, the piece was found sitting along side the display models and/or still in the box in the warehouse.

My DC07 pink, now retired from service for inability to perform as well as less expensive uprights, has no thumb tab to remove the joint, has not fallen off ,and has not been taken off since August 2006.  That makes it permanent to me.  Certainly makes it retooled from the original form and design.  How's that for dyson accuracy and correctness?

Carmine D.



Carmine,

I think your pink was sabotaged and marked ' for sale to Carmine' .

Are you now saying that the joint is not permanent but not as easily removed?

I purchased my DC07 about 3 years ago and it had the removable joint.  I never incurred a problem with it. 

 

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #42   Jul 1, 2008 7:44 am
HARDSELL wrote:
Carmine,

I think your pink was sabotaged and marked ' for sale to Carmine' .

Are you now saying that the joint is not permanent but not as easily removed?

I purchased my DC07 about 3 years ago and it had the removable joint.  I never incurred a problem with it. 

 



HS:

Yes, that's what I said based on a little assistance from Motor and Dusty.  It's permanent unless deliberately and intentionally removed with effort and forethought.  No longer does it fall off accidently and unintentially and remain off.

Please read my post about the Consumer Reports review and the DC07 dirt bin.  It's a dyson and CR classic.  I'm sure you never had the same problem as CR either with your dirt bin.  Doesn't mean it didn't exist.  Just means dyson, to its credit, took CR's criticism seriously and corrected the problems.  You may not recall/don't remember.  You were not posting on the vacuum Forums at the time, to my knowledge, as HARDSELL.

You're getting better HS.  Use to be you blamed my carpets: Mohawk wool loop medium pile.  Builder grade you called it.  Which it is not.  I special ordered.   Now you say the dyson vacuum was sabotaged.  If it is the latter, it was a permanent sabotage by dyson during the design, manufacture, and production.  It failed not just me but 2 other users too in their home carpet vacuuming.  You know what happens and the result.  Gawdawful ratcheting noise, brush roll stops turning, no cleaning being done.  Since all 3 of us have household pets, the constant ratcheting noise drove the poor animals wild.  Probably gave them permanent hearing loss and fear of vacuums. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 1, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #43   Jul 1, 2008 9:06 am
CarmineD wrote:
HS:

Yes, that's what I said based on a little assistance from Motor and Dusty.  It's permanent unless deliberately and intentionally removed with effort and forethought.  No longer does it fall off accidently and unintentially and remain off.

Please read my post about the Consumer Reports review and the DC07 dirt bin.  It's a dyson and CR classic.  I'm sure you never had the same problem as CR either with your dirt bin.  Doesn't mean it didn't exist.  Just means dyson, to its credit, took CR's criticism seriously and corrected the problems.  You may not recall/don't remember.  You were not posting on the vacuum Forums at the time, to my knowledge, as HARDSELL.

You're getting better HS.  Use to be you blamed my carpets: Mohawk wool loop medium pile.  Builder grade you called it.  Which it is not.  I special ordered.   Now you say the dyson vacuum was sabotaged.  If it is the latter, it was a permanent sabotage by dyson during the design, manufacture, and production.  It failed not just me but 2 other users too in their home carpet vacuuming.  You know what happens and the result.  Gawdawful ratcheting noise, brush roll stops turning, no cleaning being done.  Since all 3 of us have household pets, the constant ratcheting noise drove the poor animals wild.  Probably gave them permanent hearing loss and fear of vacuums. 

Carmine D.



So you incorrectly stated more than once that it was permanent.  What else have you told the forum that was a figment of your imagination?

dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #44   Jul 1, 2008 10:15 am
CarmineD wrote:

Well let me say this:  The dyson u bend airway joint does NOT come off and stay off as easily as it did with the original launch of the DC07-s. 



Then we also should also say that it is indeed a removable part and that Dyson corrected the problem and it is no longer an issue.

Dusty
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #45   Jul 1, 2008 10:25 am
CarmineD wrote:
Please read my post about the Consumer Reports review and the DC07 dirt bin.  It's a dyson and CR classic.  I'm sure you never had the same problem as CR either with your dirt bin.  Doesn't mean it didn't exist.  Just means dyson, to its credit, took CR's criticism seriously and corrected the problems.  You may not recall/don't remember.  You were not posting on the vacuum Forums at the time, to my knowledge, as HARDSELL.

A good reason to never buy anything in it's first year of production.  Eureka Bravo motor fans, Dirt Devil electric hoses, Electorolux switch rockers, anything built by Chrysler....they  were all things that were a nightmare in the service department.

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #46   Jul 1, 2008 12:49 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
So you incorrectly stated more than once that it was permanent.  What else have you told the forum that was a figment of your imagination?

HS:

It's permanent until you take it off.  Your pants are permanent until you take them off.  Pants don't fall off.  Shouldn't!  That's why there are belts and suspenders [for us old guys].

Let me think on your last question, and get back to you.  I'm sure if there is something, one thing or other I stated in error, someone/everyone here would have corrected me at least a dozen times.  Just so I don't forget!

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 1, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #47   Jul 1, 2008 12:57 pm
dusty wrote:
Then we also should also say that it is indeed a removable part and that Dyson corrected the problem and it is no longer an issue.

Dusty


Hello Dusty:

You said it for me.  Dyson also corrected the dirt bin problem.  These were givens.  Relatively simple changes and necessary for making.

But the gawdawful ratcheing noise, clutch shut off, puny DC07 brush roll, and self adjusting height adjustment for the brush nozzle head, and no headlight/cord winder are all still problematic.  The reasons dyson is scrubbing the model.  [IMHO].

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 1, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #48   Jul 1, 2008 1:03 pm
dusty wrote:
A good reason to never buy anything in it's first year of production. 
Dusty



Hello Dusty:

It's been over 6 years now for the DC07.  And they are $289 vice $439.  I still wouldn't recommend buying it to my worse enemy.  There are too many better,  less expensive makes and models now that compete for the bagless upright vacuum market.  And that's the reason in large part dyson's market share has dropped precipitously in the UK in the last 3 years.  Dropping in the USA too.  The same will happen in Canada.  Economics work the same in all markets, for all products, for all currencies.  Just takes time for the market forces to work their way through the economies. 

Maybe different in Japan.  Japanese like Mr. D.  But they also like $4000 toilets that wash your privates with heated water, play your favorite tunes, and emit your favorite aromas.  Consumers that pay $4000 for a toilet are probably willing to pay the same for a household vacuum.  PT Barnum coined a name for them.  He just forgot to say they would all be born Japanese!

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 1, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #49   Jul 1, 2008 4:35 pm
CarmineD wrote:
HS:

It's permanent until you take it off.  Your pants are permanent until you take them off.  Pants don't fall off.  Shouldn't!  That's why there are belts and suspenders [for us old guys].

Let me think on your last question, and get back to you.  I'm sure if there is something, one thing or other I stated in error, someone/everyone here would have corrected me at least a dozen times.  Just so I don't forget!

Carmine D.



Would it be so disgraceful to admit that you are wrong?  You were wrong about the joint being permanent no matter how you twist your words.

HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #50   Jul 1, 2008 4:43 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Dusty:

It's been over 6 years now for the DC07.  And they are $289 vice $439.  I still wouldn't recommend buying it to my worse enemy.  There are too many better,  less expensive makes and models now that compete for the bagless upright vacuum market.  And that's the reason in large part dyson's market share has dropped precipitously in the UK in the last 3 years.  Dropping in the USA too.  The same will happen in Canada.  Economics work the same in all markets, for all products, for all currencies.  Just takes time for the market forces to work their way through the economies. 

Maybe different in Japan.  Japanese like Mr. D.  But they also like $4000 toilets that wash your privates with heated water, play your favorite tunes, and emit your favorite aromas.  Consumers that pay $4000 for a toilet are probably willing to pay the same for a household vacuum.  PT Barnum coined a name for them.  He just forgot to say they would all be born Japanese!

Carmine D.

What happens to liars

http://blog.blazingangles.net/whatsthis/2007/10/the-art-of-lying-2.html

DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #51   Jul 1, 2008 5:09 pm
In the UK the Dyson Brochures for the DC24 and DC25 plus the DC22 and DC23 it pitches them as

DC24 for the smaller home (and the DC22 as well!)

DC25 for the Bigger\larger Home (and the DC23 too!)

So that tells us that Dyson designed the DC24 (and the canister DC22) for the smaller home, thats doesn't mean to say someone with a bigger house can't use it!  Just be emptying the bin more regularly!

If I'm not mistaken in the news article and press release from Dyson (UK) it stated the Engineers were given the task of making\designing\engineering smaller lighter vacuums due tot he fact UK homes were becoming smaller and space was a premium!

Also when I investigated the DC24 in a shop the filter washing (which i believe I posted on here) was every 1 month!  The 3-6 months is for the larger model DC25!

Some of the above info is found in the  'Dyson DC24 / DC25 VAcs: Sir James Brings his Ball back' thread on this forum.  

DC18

This message was modified Jul 1, 2008 by DC18
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #52   Jul 1, 2008 5:31 pm
CarmineD wrote:
It's permanent until you take it off.  Your pants are permanent until you take them off.  Pants don't fall off.  Shouldn't!  That's why there are belts and suspenders [for us old guys].

If we used that logic would not all bag models have a permanent paper bag? 

Dusty
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #53   Jul 1, 2008 5:39 pm
DC18 wrote:
In the UK the Dyson Brochures for the DC24 and DC25 plus the DC22 and DC23 it pitches them as

DC24 for the smaller home (and the DC22 as well!)

DC25 for the Bigger\larger Home (and the DC23 too!)

So that tells us that Dyson designed the DC24 (and the canister DC22) for the smaller home, thats doesn't mean to say someone with a bigger house can't use it!  Just be emptying the bin more regularly!

If I'm not mistaken in the news article and press release from Dyson (UK) it stated the Engineers were given the task of making\designing\engineering smaller lighter vacuums due tot he fact UK homes were becoming smaller and space was a premium!

Also when I investigated the DC24 in a shop the filter washing (which i believe I posted on here) was every 1 month!  The 3-6 months is for the larger model DC25!

Some of the above info is found in the  'Dyson DC24 / DC25 VAcs: Sir James Brings his Ball back' thread on this forum.  

DC18


Hi DC18,

Yep, the filters on the DC24 are labeled for washing monthly.  We've been using the same machine around the store for demos for a couple months now and the pre-motor filter is starting to get dirty (hasn't penetrated to the other side yet) and the washable hepa shows no signs of needing cleaning. We sell this machine where it is designed for...smaller homes, condos, places with less carpet.  I have no doubt that if you were to use it in a family home with pets and high traffic that the filters would need maintenance monthly.

Dusty
This message was modified Jul 1, 2008 by dusty
DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #54   Jul 1, 2008 7:49 pm
Hi Dusty

Thanks for the info. Interesting to know the filter(s) last longer than a month.  How do you rate the brush bar on this model?  On my testing of the DC24 and DC25 in a shop i preferred the DC25 brush bar over the DC24!  DC24 could be a little more aggressive.  Could do with more brush turfs on the brush bar!

DC18

This message was modified Jul 1, 2008 by DC18
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #55   Jul 1, 2008 10:18 pm
DC18 wrote:
Hi Dusty

Thanks for the info. Interesting to know the filter(s) last longer than a month.  How do you rate the brush bar on this model?  On my testing of the DC24 and DC25 in a shop i preferred the DC25 brush bar over the DC24!  DC24 could be a little more aggressive.  Could do with more brush turfs on the brush bar!

DC18


With not having the DC25 in Canada I can't give you an answer on that one.  The DC24 roller, though sparse with the brushes seems to do a decent enough job on the carpet.  We use  Dysons when we demo Capture or Sebo cleaning powder and the 24 does an admirable job at picking the powder up.

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #56   Jul 2, 2008 7:06 am
dusty wrote:

If we used that logic would not all bag models have a permanent paper bag? 

Dusty



Dusty:

Close but no cigar.  More like a permanent cloth bag was long the vacuum vernacular in the industry I know and love.  Read on.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 2, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #57   Jul 2, 2008 7:10 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Gents:

MOLE, yes the paper bag fits inside a cloth permanent bag.  What sets this paper insert apart from others of the era [like the GE Cann] is the thin cardboard rim stitched and glued to the top of the paper bag.  It allows the paper bag to sit tightly inside the groove on the top of the rubber gasket on the cloth bag rim that fits in the vacuum.  Not surprised these are very hard to find and special orders.  Wonderful straight suction vacuum, very quiet, with a very clean exhaust air for its old age.  Lamb motor if I remember correctly.

Carmine D.

Hi Guys:

I took the liberty to repost this from June 29.  It was in response to MOLE on the thread about paper bags for the EUREKA rotomatic.  Nothing to do with dyson and thumb tabs and ubend airways.

Please note my use of permanent in the reply for the cloth bag.  Of course it's not.  Has to be removed to dump and clean.  But a vacuum vernacular for cloths going back to my era.

So goes the generation [perhaps 2] gap in vacuum communications my friends. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 2, 2008 by CarmineD
JackD


Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Points: 6

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #58   Jul 2, 2008 8:14 am
So you are saying the paper bags and filters that we replace on vacuums are "permanent" pieces?  Trying to figure out what the fuss was all about I stopped by a Best Buy and looked at a Dyson.  That "upbend" thing slid off with a push of a thumb.  Kind of seems like it would come in handy to get stuff out that you probably shouldn't have run over in the first place.  Store staff said it has always done this.  What am I missing?
M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #59   Jul 2, 2008 8:30 am
Dyson is rumoured to be gearing up and putting a new model in to production during September :-

http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/7/2/business/21702103&sec=business

The article mentions printed circuit boards as part of the new contract - I wonder if this is significant?
Some of the uprights in the past have included small circuit boards (DC15) for brushbar power supply switching, does anyone know if any of the current crop have them?

This message was modified Jul 2, 2008 by M00seUK
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #60   Jul 2, 2008 10:05 am
JackD wrote:
So you are saying the paper bags and filters that we replace on vacuums are "permanent" pieces?  Trying to figure out what the fuss was all about I stopped by a Best Buy and looked at a Dyson.  That "upbend" thing slid off with a push of a thumb.  Kind of seems like it would come in handy to get stuff out that you probably shouldn't have run over in the first place.  Store staff said it has always done this.  What am I missing?

You're not missing anything.  Carmine has a slightly different definition of permanent.
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #61   Jul 2, 2008 12:39 pm
Hello Dusty:

And it's not just for dyson, witness the repost on the "permanent" cloth bags.  Thank you, Dusty. 

 Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 2, 2008 by CarmineD
Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #62   Jul 2, 2008 1:31 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hi Guys:

I took the liberty to repost this from June 29.  It was in response to MOLE on the thread about paper bags for the EUREKA rotomatic.  Nothing to do with dyson and thumb tabs and ubend airways.

Please note my use of permanent in the reply for the cloth bag.  Of course it's not.  Has to be removed to dump and clean.  But a vacuum vernacular for cloths going back to my era.

So goes the generation [perhaps 2] gap in vacuum communications my friends. 

Carmine D.


Carmine, that statement would hold water IF there was a portion on the U-bend that was thrown away and replaced periodically.  The term "permanent cloth bag" makes perfect sense to distinguish between the bag that is not disposable and the paper liner that is.  But there's no such thing here, and once again, we caught you red-handed and we'll see how you lie your way out of this one, like so many other statements you repeat and believe

Chalk up another fairy tale!

-MH
Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #63   Jul 2, 2008 1:57 pm
M00seUK wrote:
Dyson is rumoured to be gearing up and putting a new model in to production during September :-

http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/7/2/business/21702103&sec=business

The article mentions printed circuit boards as part of the new contract - I wonder if this is significant?
Some of the uprights in the past have included small circuit boards (DC15) for brushbar power supply switching, does anyone know if any of the current crop have them?


Hi Moose, that will be the DC27 which will be launched in the United States in October.  At this time I can't divulge any more details.

-MH
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #64   Jul 2, 2008 4:18 pm
Quick! Somebody contact David Oreck!  He'll be glad to know he can now advertise the new permanent belt feature :-)

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #65   Jul 2, 2008 4:31 pm
Motorhead wrote:
Carmine, that statement would hold water IF there was a portion on the U-bend that was thrown away and replaced periodically. 
-MH


From my perspective, obviously the minority, your statement proves my point that the u-bend airway joint is permanent.  No part of it should be unused/replaced/thrown away.  Thank you, Motor.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 2, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #66   Jul 2, 2008 4:34 pm
the only permanent about cloth shake out bags is that the cat and dog hair gets stuck permanetly inside the bag,who wants to fiddle with this nonsense,

Hows this for a new twist a paper filter bag  inside a cloth woven mole skin bag,with a filter underneath that.

O h im sorry its been done already  ABOUT 60 YEARS AGO.............

MOLE

mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #67   Jul 2, 2008 4:34 pm
the only permanent about cloth shake out bags is that the cat and dog hair gets stuck permanetly inside the bag,who wants to fiddle with this nonsense,

Hows this for a new twist a paper filter bag  inside a cloth woven mole skin bag,with a filter underneath that.

O h im sorry its been done already  ABOUT 60 YEARS AGO.............

MOLE

JackD


Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Points: 6

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #68   Jul 2, 2008 4:35 pm
CarmineD wrote:
From my perspective, obviously the minority, your statement is the basis for the u-bend airway joint being permanent. 

Carmine D.



I guess I'm still confused what the change was then.  If they "changed" it to make it "permanent" but it always has been removable does that mean it used to be disposable?
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #69   Jul 2, 2008 4:36 pm
dusty wrote:
Quick! Somebody contact David Oreck!  He'll be glad to know he can now advertise the new permanent belt feature :-)

Dusty



He knows already, I'm sure.  Permanent until it breaks off, and/or is replaced.  Certainly, it should not be used without a belt.  Hence, the belt is permanent.  Just like a permanent cloth bag.  Thank you, Dusty.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 2, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #70   Jul 2, 2008 4:42 pm
JackD wrote:
I guess I'm still confused what the change was then.  If they "changed" it to make it "permanent" but it always has been removable does that mean it used to be disposable?


I can tell you are confused.  Let me try to assist you in your confusion.  Yes, in fact it was disposable.  Why?  During the dyson launch in 2002, many of the DC-07 display models lacked the joint. completely.   Either it was sitting along side the vacuum, or on top of the vacuum, and/or still in the box in the warehouse without a purpose in life.  As I said, the bright yellow colored thumb tab on the u bend air way joint was an open invitation for lookers to press/step on.  When they did, off it came and it stayed off.  Without the store staff knowing how to re-attach/for what purpose it was needed and used.  Pray tell:  Is it still that way JackD when you saw it??

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 2, 2008 by CarmineD
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #71   Jul 2, 2008 4:47 pm
CarmineD wrote:
He knows already, I'm sure.  Permanent until it breaks off, and/or is replaced.  Certainly, it should not be used without a belt.  Hence, the belt is permanent.  Just like a permanent cloth bag.  Thank you, Dusty.

Carmine D.


Kind of like a filter that doesn't clog...until it clogs.  I get your thinking now.  I wonder if NAD would agree with you.

Dusty
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #72   Jul 2, 2008 4:59 pm
CarmineD wrote:
I can tell you are confused.  Let me try to assist you in your confusion.  Yes, in fact it was disposable.  Why?  During the dyson launch in 2002, many of the DC-07 display models lacked the joint. completely.   Either it was sitting along side the vacuum, or on top of the vacuum, and/or still in the box in the warehouse without a purpose in life.  As I said, the bright yellow colored thumb tab on the u bend air way joint was an open invitation for lookers to press/step on.  When they did, off it came and it stayed off.  Without the store staff knowing how to re-attach/for what purpose it was needed and used.  Pray tell:  Is it still that way JackD when you saw it??

Carmine D.


Jack already gave you an answer

That "upbend" thing slid off with a push of a thumb.  Kind of seems like it would come in handy to get stuff out that you probably shouldn't have run over in the first place.

Pretty impressive.  Jack managed to not only remove but put back the permanent UBend on his first attempt.  It's amazing nobody else could figure that out back in the day.

Dusty
DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #73   Jul 2, 2008 5:44 pm
dusty wrote:
With not having the DC25 in Canada I can't give you an answer on that one.  The DC24 roller, though sparse with the brushes seems to do a decent enough job on the carpet.  We use  Dysons when we demo Capture or Sebo cleaning powder and the 24 does an admirable job at picking the powder up.

Dusty

Hi Dusty

Thanks for your reply.  I have never understood why Dyson brushes on their brush bars are spaced too wide apart!  Plus the brushes are very short! The DC25 has slightly smaller turfs but not so spaced out like the DC24 and I have to say when I tested the DC25 and DC24 the DC25 brush bar is a much welcomed improvement over the DC24, DC18 and DC15!  You could see the pile being lifted and groomed!

The original DC01 had triple row of brushes which where spaced out in line with each row, which worked very well!

DC18

DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #74   Jul 2, 2008 5:50 pm
It's about time Dyson design a vacuum for the UK market!  I wonder if this new Vacuum will replace the US only DC17!

DC18!

HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #75   Jul 2, 2008 6:46 pm
CarmineD wrote:
From my perspective, obviously the minority, your statement proves my point that the u-bend airway joint is permanent.  No part of it should be unused/replaced/thrown away.  Thank you, Motor.

Carmine D.

Does this definition describe the u bend ?  I think not.

permanent"

not capable of being reversed or returned to the original condition

You originally said the u joint could not be removed.  That would be stationary which I (and likely all) suspect is whatg you intended to say.

sta·tion·ar·y (stsh-nr)

adj.
1.
a. Not moving.
b. Not capable of being moved; fixed.
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #76   Jul 2, 2008 6:48 pm
dusty wrote:
Kind of like a filter that doesn't clog...until it clogs.  I get your thinking now.  I wonder if NAD would agree with you.

Dusty


Also like the life time filter that last its lifetime.
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #77   Jul 2, 2008 6:49 pm
dusty wrote:
Jack already gave you an answer

That "upbend" thing slid off with a push of a thumb.  Kind of seems like it would come in handy to get stuff out that you probably shouldn't have run over in the first place.

Pretty impressive.  Jack managed to not only remove but put back the permanent UBend on his first attempt.  It's amazing nobody else could figure that out back in the day.

Dusty



Dusty,

I think we now know for sure that the DC07 is not for the mentally challenged like the "TWISTER".

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #78   Jul 3, 2008 6:21 am
Hello menschkins:

Looks like it's time to gang up on the old vacuum guy.  Let me ask you learned gents who posted:  Did you look up the definition of "permanent" in the dictionary?  Would you care to and post it here?  You're good at that Dusty.  I suspected you would have by now.  Unless it shoots down your argument?  If you do, then we can intelligently debate it's application to the u bend joint and the majority/minority views?  How's that menschkins? 

For all the dyson fans who believe the u bend air way joint is a good vacuum design and application, [I think Dusty you posted that if not Jack D, or JimB, I can't keep track of you dyson guys when you post in packs] did dyson continue to use on models after the DC14?  For example.....  Why?Why not?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 3, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #79   Jul 3, 2008 6:33 am
dusty wrote:
Jack already gave you an answer

That "upbend" thing slid off with a push of a thumb.  Kind of seems like it would come in handy to get stuff out that you probably shouldn't have run over in the first place.

Dusty


Dusty and JackD, you know well that the thumb tab was removed and the fitting retooled to the vacuum.  Maybe you don't Dusty, because of the Canada perspective.  Maybe JackD doesn't either if he didn't know the original design and function.  He may be late to the game too.  But surely Motor does.  And of course the person who is conspicuously absent, the dyson expert.  Matt mmc AirBlade who addressed this matter long ago on the Forums.  In fact he agreed with me.

Where you be Matt mmc?  Get this pack of dyson rabid fans off me.  They know not what they speak.

Carmine D. 

HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #80   Jul 3, 2008 8:30 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello menschkins:

Looks like it's time to gang up on the old vacuum guy.  Let me ask you learned gents who posted:  Did you look up the definition of "permanent" in the dictionary?  Would you care to and post it here?  You're good at that Dusty.  I suspected you would have by now.  Unless it shoots down your argument?  If you do, then we can intelligently debate it's application to the u bend joint and the majority/minority views?  How's that menschkins? 

For all the dyson fans who believe the u bend air way joint is a good vacuum design and application, [I think Dusty you posted that if not Jack D, or JimB, I can't keep track of you dyson guys when you post in packs] did dyson continue to use on models after the DC14?  For example.....  Why?Why not?

Carmine D.



I posted the definition 3 posts up.

The u joint is a permanent part of the DC07.  Always was.  It is not permanently attached as you implied.

My guess is the u bend is either not necessary or impractical to incorporate into the design of the models after the DC14.  Unlike you I will admit that I do not know the real reason.  It is irrevelant as we were talking about the DC07 and you did not know the facts.  Maybe Dyson should have left the tab on the joint.  A 40 year vet could not remove it without the tab.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #81   Jul 3, 2008 8:41 am
HARDSELL wrote:
 Maybe Dyson should have left the tab on the joint.  A 40 year vet could not remove it without the tab.


HS:

4 year old-s could and probably did!  Then store staffs with years of experience trained by former housewives [turned dyson reps] could't replace!    That IS the truth, my HS man.  That's the reason dyson corrected the design and function flaw in the u bend air way joint on subsequent DC-07's.  And subsequently scrubbed it on all the post DC14 models.  Word, my little menschins! 

Matt mmc, AirBlade, where are you?  This rabid dyson pack hath need of thee!  Won't accept the truth from a dyson critic.  Maybe you will be more successful?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 3, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #82   Jul 3, 2008 9:09 am
HARDSELL wrote:
Dusty,

I think we now know for sure that the DC07 is not for the mentally challenged like the "TWISTER".



Is That why you got rid of your dyson??????????????????

MOLE

JackD


Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Points: 6

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #83   Jul 3, 2008 9:24 am
CarmineD wrote:
Motor:

Here's the truth.  Within the first year of launch, dyson retooled the DC07 u-bend air way joint.  Making it permanent on the DC07-s and not removable.  It was removable originally on the first and early DC-07's supposedly to allow users to clear clogs/blockages.  It had a yellow thumb tab on it to depress to remove/attach.   

Carmine D. 



Ok so a few pages of debate had me curious so I called Dyson.  The lady I talked to get a bit of a chuckle when I asked about them making this piece "not removable".  She explained that the confusion probably comes from a change made in how it comes of making it necessary to bend down and use a hand as oppossed to pressing it down with a foot.  However, it is still very removable and both the instruction manual and their phone staff use than as one of the first places to "remove" and check for a larger object you may have sucked up in error. 

So was removable and still is removable but they did apparently change how you remove it.  The current way seems pretty easy to get off and on.  I would guess boths sides of the debate by now know it is still removable, but this debate is really more about personalities than the machines.

Airblade


Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 180

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #84   Jul 3, 2008 9:32 am
CarmineD wrote:
HS:

4 year old-s could and probably did!  Then store staffs with years of experience trained by former housewives [turned dyson reps] could't replace!    That IS the truth, my HS man.  That's the reason dyson corrected the design and function flaw in the u bend air way joint on subsequent DC-07's.  And subsequently scrubbed it on all the post DC14 models.  Word, my little menschins! 

Matt mmc, AirBlade, where are you?  This rabid dyson pack hath need of thee!  Won't accept the truth from a dyson critic.  Maybe you will be more successful?

Carmine D.


I've just been shaking my head at this crazy topic of conversation.  Jack D is correct.  The original u-bend was changed because it was mistaken as a foot pedal, however it is still removable by end users.
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #85   Jul 3, 2008 9:43 am
I agree MATT, is this where dysons typically get blocked?, From my experience with serviceing them the blocks are further up at the inlet hose and brushroll area.

All vacuums clog,no manufacturer other than dyson makes the claim that theirs dont.

Yes the early model 07 had the tabs for the duct removeal,many were off by accident and brought in for service,

My advice to dyson would be to take all the different angles that the air has to move through to get to the end of the system,this would also bring the high temperatures down to where the casings would not distort so much.

MOLE

Airblade


Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 180

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #86   Jul 3, 2008 9:47 am
mole wrote:
I agree MATT, is this where dysons typically get blocked?, From my experience with serviceing them the blocks are further up at the inlet hose and brushroll area.

All vacuums clog,no manufacturer other than dyson makes the claim that theirs dont.

Yes the early model 07 had the tabs for the duct removeal,many were off by accident and brought in for service,

My advice to dyson would be to take all the different angles that the air has to move through to get to the end of the system,this would also bring the high temperatures down to where the casings would not distort so much.

MOLE


The u-bend is a clogging point for only the wand.........there is no airflow through it when the brushroll is engaged.
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #87   Jul 3, 2008 9:53 am
Thanks Matt, does dyson use a built in divertor valve, for attachment use?

MOLE

Airblade


Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 180

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #88   Jul 3, 2008 10:03 am
Not sure on the technical name.......but yes, there is a valve that automatically diverts the airflow
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #89   Jul 3, 2008 4:17 pm
Airblade wrote:
I've just been shaking my head at this crazy topic of conversation.  Jack D is correct.  The original u-bend was changed because it was mistaken as a foot pedal, however it is still removable by end users.


Hey Matt the scat:

Thanks.  You should remember that years ago and here too I was the FIRST person that  criticized the thumb tab on the U bend air way joint on the DC07.  Saying users stepped on it to release the dyson handle.  Then couldn't reinstall.  And w/o it, no suction in the tool mode.  Mike W. knows too [the invisible man].  Thanks MIke for your assistance here. 

It's called let's divert the criticism away from dyson which IS the problem and spin it toward Carmine D.  You know that by now.  Your band of happy rabid dysoners are experts at the game.  It makes me laugh with a heart of joy.  And solidifies my position on dysons. 

These menschkins know the thumb tab idea was a joke.  Shame on the 450 dyson engineers.  Not to mention that it violates the cardinal rule of Mr. D's autobiography that users should not have to bend over to fiddle with controls and switches.  Does that include removing/reinstalling the joint [with and without the tab press] ?

The original ubend airway joint required the user to install in many cases on the DC-07's new out of the box.  Why?  Because the poor dyson quality control let them go out off the vacuum and/or the piece came off in shipping and/or in opening and displaying.  Isn't that right Matt?  And many of the store staff didn't know how and what to do with the pieces.  That's the reason the DC07 was retooled and refitted to be permanently on the vacuum [out of the box]  unless removed by the user. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 3, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #90   Jul 3, 2008 4:59 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hey Matt the scat:

Thanks.  You should remember that years ago and here too I was the FIRST person that  criticized the thumb tab on the U bend air way joint on the DC07.  Saying users stepped on it to release the dyson handle.  Then couldn't reinstall.  And w/o it, no suction in the tool mode.  Mike W. knows too [the invisible man].  Thanks MIke for your assistance here. 

It's called let's divert the criticism away from dyson which IS the problem and spin it toward Carmine D.  You know that by now.  Your band of happy rabid dysoners are experts at the game.  It makes me laugh with a heart of joy.  And solidifies my position on dysons. 

These menschkins know the thumb tab idea was a joke.  Shame on the 450 dyson engineers.  Not to mention that it violates the cardinal rule of Mr. D's autobiography that users should not have to bend over to fiddle with controls and switches.  Does that include removing/reinstalling the joint [with and without the tab press] ?

The original ubend airway joint required the user to install in many cases on the DC-07's new out of the box.  Why?  Because the poor dyson quality control let them go out off the vacuum and/or the piece came off in shipping and/or in opening and displaying.  Isn't that right Matt?  And many of the store staff didn't know how and what to do with the pieces.  That's the reason the DC07 was retooled and refitted to be permanently on the vacuum [out of the box]  unless removed by the user. 

Carmine D.

I know how easily you forget.  I hilighted in red your claim that the u-bend on the DC07 is not removable.

Pass the crow please.      American Crow

Your truths are not so true.

Motor:

Here's the truth.  Within the first year of launch, dyson retooled the DC07 u-bend air way joint.  Making it permanent on the DC07-s and not removable.  It was removable originally on the first and early DC-07's supposedly to allow users to clear clogs/blockages.  It had a yellow thumb tab on it to depress to remove/attach.  People thought it was the handle release and would step on the thumb tab.  The piece came off and most stores' staff didn't know how to attach it.  It remained along side the dyson display model/still in the box never used.  Result:  No suction in the tool mode.  Fix:  Dyson knew a buck item was poised to derail its launch, and made the piece permanent.  Quick like. 

Good thing ORECK stayed the course and took dyson to court.  I have not seen the latest DC24/25 product lit.  But, if dyson is still using the false claim, then dyson is violating the NAD ruling and subject to punitive and monetary disciplinary actions.  Dyson isn't that stupid.  Even the dyson retailers have long dropped the use of the false dyson claim.  

Carmine D. 

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #91   Jul 3, 2008 5:04 pm
Your truths are not so true.
Motor:

Here's the truth.  Within the first year of launch, dyson retooled the DC07 u-bend air way joint.  Making it permanent on the DC07-s and not removable.  It was removable originally on the first and early DC-07's supposedly to allow users to clear clogs/blockages.  It had a yellow thumb tab on it to depress to remove/attach.  People thought it was the handle release and would step on the thumb tab.  The piece came off and most stores' staff didn't know how to attach it.  It remained along side the dyson display model/still in the box never used.  Result:  No suction in the tool mode.  Fix:  Dyson knew a buck item was poised to derail its launch, and made the piece permanent.  Quick like. 

Carmine D. 

Hello HS:

I highlighted in bold italics with underlining the portion you didn't.  Included a definition of "permanent;"  [From Random House Webster's College edition]:

1. Existing perpetually; everlasting; 2.  intended to serve, function, etc for a long indefinite period.   

The current does, the old didn't.

Carmine D. 

This message was modified Jul 3, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #92   Jul 3, 2008 5:08 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Dusty:

You're in Canada, and it was late to the dyson sales game.  Just the last 3 years if I understood correctly.  I suspect you're getting old dyson DC07 stock before the u bend airway was made permanent.  And the dyson pics are old.  All the DC07-s now in the USA [that I have seen in stores since the launch of 2002] have a permanent u bend airway joint.  The removable one has been obsolete here in the USA.  I speak with experience in several states on both coasts.

It's an important piece.  Without it, the vacuum has no suction in the tool mode. [FYI: The DC07 pink I bought in August 2006 from TARGET had a very permanent u bend airway joint with no thumb tab to be seen and still does]. 

Carmine D.



What coasts did you visit to find DC07's with a non removable u-bend?  You tell a new member that you had 40 years in business then became a consultant. Yet, you did not know how to remove the u-bend on your DC07.  I always suspected that as a consultant you advised against Dyson and it bit you in the a$$.  They fired you and you have bashed Dyson ever since.

You should have had your wife assist you with the Dyson since she is more savy than you.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #93   Jul 3, 2008 5:16 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Dusty:

You're in Canada, and it was late to the dyson sales game.  Just the last 3 years if I understood correctly.  I suspect you're getting old dyson DC07 stock before the u bend airway was made permanent.  And the dyson pics are old.  All the DC07-s now in the USA [that I have seen in stores since the launch of 2002] have a permanent u bend airway joint.  The removable one has been obsolete here in the USA.  I speak with experience in several states on both coasts.

It's an important piece.  Without it, the vacuum has no suction in the tool mode. [FYI: The DC07 pink I bought in August 2006 from TARGET had a very permanent u bend airway joint with no thumb tab to be seen and still does]. 

Carmine D.

HS:

I highlighted in bold with italics and underlines the part you omitted. 

Perhaps if the DC07 pink worked on my carpets and clogged, I would have had the occasion to remove the ubend joint.  But since it didn't work, I didn't have reason to remove.  The DC07 with the ubend airway is permanently removed from my home.  Soon to be permanently removed from retailers' shelves.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 3, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #94   Jul 3, 2008 5:25 pm
Is Dyson going to give them credit on the dysons left sitting on the warehouse shelves or is that against the dyson rules.

Yea this makes a lot of business sense lets replace the dysons that were stuck with,with more dysons were going to be stuck with.

Now you know why the INDYS told them to take a hike.

anyone want a pallet load of dc15 $#%* that someone wants to get rid of...........

MOLE
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #95   Jul 3, 2008 5:37 pm
Hey MOLE man:

Good question.  Back in 2005 when Wal*Mart scrubbed the DC07 All Floors for the HOOVER FUSION, dyson took back the WM dyson inventory.  WM insisted on cash in return, no credits.  Dyson forked it up and unloaded all the WM dysons on BEST BUY stores.  A ship load.  The BB stores are still selling them 3 plus years later with still more in warehouses stored yet to be sold.  BB was upset with dyson over this maneuver.  But went along for the ride.  A rough one.  Still.  3 plus years later.  And the DC07-s are getting kicked around at clearance prices by all retailers to unload. 

At the rate dyson is going, it will be passed 3 digits in model numbers and BB will still be selling the DC07-s.  By then they should priced at their true worth.  Buy 1 get 3 free.  And a DC16 Hand Held included free.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 3, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #96   Jul 3, 2008 5:49 pm
Camine,your not sayin that dysons doing a little creative accounting are you?.You know REGINA / DYSON 2 the same........


MOLE
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #97   Jul 3, 2008 6:00 pm
mole wrote:
Camine,your not sayin that dysons doing a little creative accounting are you?.You know REGINA / DYSON 2 the same........


MOLE



Who knows, MOLE?  It's a very good question.  It's hard to hide a vessal load of new vacuums from smart auditors, who were the ones who noticed all the returned REGINA-s stocking up.  And one asked the question:  What are all these returned REGINA-s.  And the answer:  They are customer returns.  A little research and voila:  Double counted sales and no expenses associated with the resales.  Twice the profit, half the cost of manufacturing.  And along came the refurb law. 

I don't know how it worked.  That must have been one huge payment from dyson to WM.  No loss in sales for dyson who accounts for sales as shipment to vendor.  Why? Because all the dysons went to BB stores.  Simple bookkeeping entry by dyson.  Did BB front the do re me for all these WM dysons?  I doubt it. 

Maybe there was some financial arrangement between dyson and BB for the dyson dump.  Perhaps a delayed payment/sales on installment payments.  As the dysons sell, BB pays dyson by installments.  Hard to say MOLE.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 3, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #98   Jul 3, 2008 6:01 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hey MOLE man:

Good question.  Back in 2005 when Wal*Mart scrubbed the DC07 All Floors for the HOOVER FUSION, dyson took back the WM dyson inventory.  WM insisted on cash in return, no credits.  Dyson forked it up and unloaded all the WM dysons on BEST BUY stores.  A ship load.  The BB stores are still selling them 3 plus years later with still more in warehouses stored yet to be sold.  BB was upset with dyson over this maneuver.  But went along for the ride.  A rough one.  Still.  3 plus years later.  And the DC07-s are getting kicked around at clearance prices by all retailers to unload. 

At the rate dyson is going, it will be passed 3 digits in model numbers and BB will still be selling the DC07-s.  By then they should priced at their true worth.  Buy 1 get 3 free.  And a DC16 Hand Held included free.

Carmine D.


Carmine THE MODEL # will be the retail m.s.r.p you know the one cast in stone that if broken you will banished from the vacuum world never to be heard from again.

According to dyson wizards on this forum the dc07 was the best of the dyson breed,Oh my how are going to carry on the dyson propaganda machine when the leader of the pack has abandonded the ship.


MOLE,

Im lost but if i happen to show up before i get back keep me here.........
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #99   Jul 3, 2008 6:09 pm
mole wrote:
Carmine THE MODEL # will be the retail m.s.r.p you know the one cast in stone that if broken you will banished from the vacuum world never to be heard from again.

According to dyson wizards on this forum the dc07 was the best of the dyson breed,Oh my how are going to carry on the dyson propaganda machine when the leader of the pack has abandonded the ship.


MOLE,

Im lost but if i happen to show up before i get back keep me here.........


The MSRP  is permanent on the DC07. 
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #100   Jul 3, 2008 6:13 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Your truths are not so true.

Hello HS:

I highlighted in bold italics with underlining the portion you didn't.  Included a definition of "permanent;"  [From Random House Webster's College edition]:

1. Existing perpetually; everlasting; 2.  intended to serve, function, etc for a long indefinite period.   

The current does, the old didn't.

Carmine D. 



I do not think that anyone is denying the definition of permanent. In fact I posted it earlier and you twisted around the post.  Are you still denying that that you said it could not be removed ? 

You mentioned recently that the clergy was very dear to you.  Do they teach you to lie.

The truth will set you free.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #101   Jul 3, 2008 6:15 pm
Hey MOLE:

Yes, all the talk about dyson MAP enforcement and price supports.  Supposedly to assist the indy-s against big box stores' price competition.  And the dealer only dysons.  Sure!  More like retailers' exclusives.  Remember it all very well.  Heard it enough from all the dysoners. 

The dyson crowd has short memories and forsight.  Now they won't admit they were all wrong.  And we were right.  How soon they forget!  Ask the question: What is the signature dyson?  You can't get 3 dysoners to agree.  Ask which is the greater dyson?  And they are befuddled?  Hasn't come yet.  Each new one is supposed to be the greater.  Only each new dyson is the lesser:  Less air watts, less dirt bin capacity.  More user maintenance!  Greater price!

Carmine D. 

This message was modified Jul 3, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #102   Jul 3, 2008 6:17 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hey MOLE man:

Good question.  Back in 2005 when Wal*Mart scrubbed the DC07 All Floors for the HOOVER FUSION, dyson took back the WM dyson inventory.  WM insisted on cash in return, no credits.  Dyson forked it up and unloaded all the WM dysons on BEST BUY stores.  A ship load.  The BB stores are still selling them 3 plus years later with still more in warehouses stored yet to be sold.  BB was upset with dyson over this maneuver.  But went along for the ride.  A rough one.  Still.  3 plus years later.  And the DC07-s are getting kicked around at clearance prices by all retailers to unload. 

At the rate dyson is going, it will be passed 3 digits in model numbers and BB will still be selling the DC07-s.  By then they should priced at their true worth.  Buy 1 get 3 free.  And a DC16 Hand Held included free.

Carmine D.


Strange thing is that they were not gone for long.  WM lost so many sales that they had to bring Dyson back.

 You chose to be a loser.  WM chose to get back on track.  It is not too late for you to beg forgiveness from Dyson too. 

mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #103   Jul 3, 2008 6:22 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
The MSRP  is permanent on the DC07. 

Yes i understand H.S. but how about the price?

Is the hair and dirt that sticks on the shroud and the cyclones permanent also.

I had a hair permanent once, sort of looked like a big chia pet...........

MOLE
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #104   Jul 3, 2008 6:24 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
Strange thing is that they were not gone for long.  WM lost so many sales that they had to bring Dyson back.

 You chose to be a loser.  WM chose to get back on track.  It is not too late for you to beg forgiveness from Dyson too. 



Yeah.  A big wig in dyson had a close friend in WM and he begged his friend to ask WM to take dyson back in with an exclusive.  $389 DC-07 and 2 year warranty.  They are as popular as snow b-a-l-l-s in LV!  Most WM stores couldn't move them off the shelves.  Still can't.  Recenty, they were selling for $320 with give back incentives to buyers.  Still not selling.  Dyson can give a 10 year warranty now and they still won't sell at $300.  Not now.  Not with gas prices going to $7 per gallon. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 3, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #105   Jul 3, 2008 6:28 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hey MOLE:

Yes, all the talk about dyson MAP enforcement and price supports.  Supposedly to assist the indy-s against big box stores' price competition.  And the dealer only dysons.  Sure!  More like retailers' exclusives.  Remember it all very well.  Heard it enough from all the dysoners. 

The dyson crowd has short memories and forsight.  Now they won't admit they were all wrong.  And we were right.  How soon they forget!  Ask the question: What is the signature dyson?  You can't get 3 dysoners to agree.  Ask which is the greater dyson?  And they are befuddled?  Hasn't come yet.  Each new one is supposed to be the greater.  Only each new dyson is the lesser:  Less air watts, less dirt bin capacity.  More user maintenance!  Greater price!

Carmine D. 


Right you are Carmine,

These guys ought to run for government office. The only  job in the world where your paid a lot of money to be wrong. And a lifetime membership in the club.

MOLE
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #106   Jul 3, 2008 6:35 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
I do not think that anyone is denying the definition of permanent. In fact I posted it earlier and you twisted around the post.  Are you still denying that that you said it could not be removed ? 

You mentioned recently that the clergy was very dear to you.  Do they teach you to lie.

The truth will set you free.



HS:

Same as a permanent cloth bag.  Permament until removed.  Meant to be permanent and stay on to serve a purpose and last forever .  Not become removed accidently, unintentionally, and tossed because it can't get reinstalled. 

The clergy and religion are near and dear to my heart.  But this thread is about dysons. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #107   Jul 3, 2008 6:38 pm
mole wrote:
Right you are Carmine,

These guys ought to run for government office. The only  job in the world where your paid a lot of money to be wrong. And a lifetime membership in the club.

MOLE


Right again MOLE.  Where they stand depends on where they sit! 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #108   Jul 3, 2008 6:38 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hey MOLE:

Yes, all the talk about dyson MAP enforcement and price supports.  Supposedly to assist the indy-s against big box stores' price competition.  And the dealer only dysons.  Sure!  More like retailers' exclusives.  Remember it all very well.  Heard it enough from all the dysoners. 

The dyson crowd has short memories and forsight.  Now they won't admit they were all wrong.  And we were right.  How soon they forget!  Ask the question: What is the signature dyson?  You can't get 3 dysoners to agree.  Ask which is the greater dyson?  And they are befuddled?  Hasn't come yet.  Each new one is supposed to be the greater.  Only each new dyson is the lesser:  Less air watts, less dirt bin capacity.  More user maintenance!  Greater price!

Carmine D. 



Remember when you said that each new Hoover was greater than the previous and I disagreed.  I was the one who was right.  Each was lesser.  You said Dyson was gone and I disagreed.  I was right. 

The DC07 is the best DYSON (in my opinion).

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #109   Jul 3, 2008 6:41 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
Remember when you said that each new Hoover was greater than the previous and I disagreed.  I was the one who was right.  Each was lesser.  You said Dyson was gone and I disagreed.  I was right. 

The DC07 is the best DYSON (in my opinion).


Right HS:

That's the reason you sold your DC07 after 3 years and bought a DC14 and returned it for a credit!  And now use a Royal bagged for $299 and Kirby bagged Sentria.  Makes perfect sense.   Non-sense.

Carmine D.

DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #110   Jul 3, 2008 6:59 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
Remember when you said that each new Hoover was greater than the previous and I disagreed.  I was the one who was right.  Each was lesser.  You said Dyson was gone and I disagreed.  I was right. 

The DC07 is the best DYSON (in my opinion).


I agree with you there HARDSELL the DC07 is one of the best Dyson's and the most powerful to date...in the UK anyway!

DC18

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #111   Jul 3, 2008 7:14 pm
DC18 wrote:
I agree with you there HARDSELL the DC07 is one of the best Dyson's and the most powerful to date...in the UK anyway!

DC18



No doubt, DC18, for the UK.  The DC07 was made especially for rugs and carpets in the UK/Europe.  Low to mid pile.  Not for rugs in the USA.  Medium to high pile, loops and sculptured.  DC07-14 have a puny brush bar and are outperformed by any/all the big box store brand uprights on rugs.  [Which also come with manual rug height adjustments besting the dyson].  The reason in part the dyson brush bars were revamped to more USA industry standard brush rolls on subsequent models.  To make them compete better for rug cleaning with the competition in the markets where dyson exports.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 3, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #112   Jul 3, 2008 7:39 pm
dusty wrote:
Kind of like a filter that doesn't clog...until it clogs.  I get your thinking now.  I wonder if NAD would agree with you.

Dusty



Well Dusty, NAD certainly didn't agree with dyson on the claim that its filters didn't clog. 

Long before NAD disagreed, MOLE and I did too, here.  All filters clog and we said so, even dyson.  And when they do, suction decreases.  More so than the fall off in suction when bags clog.  Why?  Filters have a smaller surface area than paper bags.  Clog quicker.  Takes less dirt to clog up a filter than a paper bag.  And the consequences for permanent damage of a clogged filter to a vacuum motor trump a clogged bag easily [which requires removal and replacement of the dyson motor].  Didn't take me 450 engineers and 5127 prototypes to reach that conclusion.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 3, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #113   Jul 3, 2008 9:22 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Well Dusty, NAD certainly didn't agree with dyson on the claim that its filters didn't clog. 

Long before NAD disagreed, MOLE and I did too, here.  All filters clog and we said so, even dyson.  And when they do, suction decreases.  More so than the fall off in suction when bags clog.  Why?  Filters have a smaller surface area than paper bags.  Clog quicker.  Takes less dirt to clog up a filter than a paper bag.  And the consequences for permanent damage of a clogged filter to a vacuum motor trump a clogged bag easily [which requires removal and replacement of the dyson motor].  Didn't take me 450 engineers and 5127 prototypes to reach that conclusion.

Carmine D.

You and mole told us nothing that we do not know.  Any filter that does not clog should not be there in the first place.

The DC0 filter does not clog as quickly as a bag.  I only washed mine annually.  Try using a bag more than a few times before suction drops.

dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #114   Jul 3, 2008 11:11 pm
CarmineD wrote:

 All filters clog and we said so, even dyson.  And when they do, suction decreases.  More so than the fall off in suction when bags clog.  Why?  Filters have a smaller surface area than paper bags.  Clog quicker.  Takes less dirt to clog up a filter than a paper bag.  And the consequences for permanent damage of a clogged filter to a vacuum motor trump a clogged bag easily [which requires removal and replacement of the dyson motor].  Didn't take me 450 engineers and 5127 prototypes to reach that conclusion.

Carmine D.


Any bagged vacuum will have more dust clogging it in 5 minutes than a Dyson would get on it's filter in a month of use.  You are right that clogged filters burn out motors...we see a steady stream of Kenmore / Panasonic canisters in with clogged filters because the seal on the bags is so ineffective and sure enough...toasted motors.

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #115   Jul 4, 2008 7:25 am
HAPPY 4th of July.

Today during the celebrations, food and fun, remember the men and women of our military services deployed throughout the world.  The wounded, the deceased, their friends, family and loved ones.  And our Nation, the victims of war, pray for peace in the world.

Say a pray for a man in full that his soul rest in blessed repose.  Private First Class Ross Andrew McGinnis, who would have turned 21 on June 14, Flag Day.  He was awarded the Medal of Honor, the nation's highest award for courage in battle.

On December 4, 2006, in the gunner's hatch of a Humvee driving through Bagdad, PFC McGinnis saw a granade fly through the hatch rolling to where it could have injured the four other soldiers inside.  In an easy position to save himself, McGinnis instead jumped to cover the granade with his body to shield his comrades.  The 4 men were saved. 

McGinnis joined the Army on his 17th birthday, the first day he was eligible to enlist.  A native of Knox, Pennslyvania.  He was 6 foot tall but those who knew him said he seemed alot taller.  Like many men and women in uniform, he answered the call knowing he may put in harm's way.  At the moment it mattered, Ross McGinnis honored America's finest traditions and our own better natures.  Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #116   Jul 4, 2008 9:16 am
CarmineD wrote:
HAPPY 4th of July.

Today during the celebrations, food and fun, remember the men and women of our military services deployed throughout the world.  The wounded, the deceased, their friends, family and loved ones.  And our Nation, the victims of war, pray for peace in the world.

Say a pray for a man in full that his soul rest in blessed repose.  Private First Class Ross Andrew McGinnis, who would have turned 21 on June 14, Flag Day.  He was awarded the Medal of Honor, the nation's highest award for courage in battle.

On December 4, 2006, in the gunner's hatch of a Humvee driving through Bagdad, PFC McGinnis saw a granade fly through the hatch rolling to where it could have injured the four other soldiers inside.  In an easy position to save himself, McGinnis instead jumped to cover the granade with his body to shield his comrades.  The 4 men were saved. 

McGinnis joined the Army on his 17th birthday, the first day he was eligible to enlist.  A native of Knox, Pennslyvania.  He was 6 foot tall but those who knew him said he seemed alot taller.  Like many men and women in uniform, he answered the call knowing he may put in harm's way.  At the moment it mattered, Ross McGinnis honored America's finest traditions and our own better natures.  Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam.

Carmine D.



“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."   John 15:13


DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #117   Jul 4, 2008 6:18 pm
CarmineD wrote:
No doubt, DC18, for the UK.  The DC07 was made especially for rugs and carpets in the UK/Europe.  Low to mid pile.  Not for rugs in the USA.  Medium to high pile, loops and sculptured.  DC07-14 have a puny brush bar and are outperformed by any/all the big box store brand uprights on rugs.  [Which also come with manual rug height adjustments besting the dyson].  The reason in part the dyson brush bars were revamped to more USA industry standard brush rolls on subsequent models.  To make them compete better for rug cleaning with the competition in the markets where dyson exports.

Carmine D.



Can I just say Carmine D have you ever visited the UK?  People seem to think UK people just have very low short pile to medium pile carpet.  In the UK we have a mixture of flooring from tiled, woodern, laminate, to loop, short and medium pile carpet to very thick 'shag' pile carpet!  And many more types! On top of that we have rugs too all of verying piles heights.  Uk differs slighty to the rest of Europe in that we have a mixed of flooring in our homes.  Where as places like France, Spain, Italy you will mainly find hard flooring like tiles etc...

I've used my DC07 on a long pile carpet with no problem at all, groomed it very well!

DC18

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #118   Jul 5, 2008 6:03 am
DC18 wrote:
Can I just say Carmine D have you ever visited the UK?  People seem to think UK people just have very low short pile to medium pile carpet.

Hello DC18

Yes, I have.  I travelled through all the countries of Europe.  And for a time, thought seriously of starting a vacuum business there.  Thank you for asking.

No where in Europe are rugs and carpets as prevalent as they are here in the USA.  The USA households, with wall-to-wall carpeting, have matting/padding [some very high] which adds more height and depth to the carpet height.  Do you have that in the UK?   

The DC07 and 14, with their heavy rug head nozzles and no manual rug height adjustments [standard for all full size USA uprights] are hard to push and pull on many US rugs [especially with matting/padding added].  In turn, causing the typical classic dyson ratcheting noise so familiar with these models.

The dyson clutch and brush bar shut off [btw, puny dyson brush not meeting US industry standards] is meant for obstructions [in the UK].  Not to be engaged frequently during normal rug cleaning use [as it does with US med to high pile with backing].  

The combination of the puny dyson brush bar, clutch shut off, and lack of manual rug height adjustments are all the reasons that these models are not suited for many USA carpets.   

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #119   Jul 5, 2008 6:31 am
CarmineD wrote:
DC18

Yes, I have.  Life long friends born and raised there.  Since you asked, travelled all of Europe.  My Wife and her family are German. 

Things have changed since the 1940's.

No where are rugs and carpets as prevalent as they are here in the USA.  The USA households with wall-to-wall carpeting have matting/padding [some very high] which adds more height and depth to the size.  Do you have that in the UK?  Anywhere in Europe? 

Most are low to medium pile. 

The DC07 and 14 with heavy rug head nozzles, and no manual rug height adjustments [standard for all full size USA uprights] are hard to push and pull on many US rugs [especially with matting/padding added].  In turn, causing the typical dyson ratcheting noise so familiar with these models.

NOT TRUE  The Royal is not manually adjustable.

The dyson clutch and brush bar shut off [btw, puny dyson brush not meeting US industry standards] is meant for obstructions [in the UK].  Not to be engaged frequently during normal rug cleaning use [as it does with US med to high pile with backing].  

Most are low to medium pile.  High pile is the exception.

The combination of the puny dyson brush bar, clutch shut off, and lack of manual rug height adjustments are all the reasons that is it common knowledge these models are not suited for many USA carpets. 

And most vacuums are not meant for hard floor surfaces which are very common in the USA.  They blow more dirt and dust away than they collect from these surfaces.  DC07 is the exception.

Carmine D.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #120   Jul 5, 2008 6:48 am
HS:

Which Royal?  All the Dirt Devils in the big box stores have rug adjustments.  And the all metal Royals in the indy-s have rug adjustments.  Amd have since their beginnings decades ago.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #121   Jul 5, 2008 6:51 am
CarmineD wrote:
HS:

Which Royal?  All the Dirt Devils in the big box stores have rug adjustments.  And the all metal Royals in the indy-s have rug adjustments.  Amd have since their beginnings decades ago.

Carmine D.



You said all.  My Eminance does not have manual height adjustment.
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #122   Jul 5, 2008 6:53 am
HARDSELL wrote:
You said all.  My Eminance does not have manual height adjustment.



HS:

That's the reason it's not sold in big box stores and indy's, save a few.  And not a good example to generalize about for the rest of the US industry.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #123   Jul 5, 2008 7:12 am
BTW, HARDYSELL:

I was in the UK and Europe in the 70's, 80's and 90's.  Haven't made it back recently.  Hasn't changed that much.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #124   Jul 5, 2008 7:22 am
CarmineD wrote:
HS:

That's the reason it's not sold in big box stores and indy's, save a few.  And not a good example to generalize about for the rest of the US industry.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

When you are caught misleading you start to twist.  It is difficult to follow what you are saying above.

You stated this as fact:

"and no manual rug height adjustments [standard for all full size USA uprights"

All full size USA uprights do not have manual height adjustments as you stated.  Is it not a good example because it proved that you do not know what you are talking about?

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #125   Jul 5, 2008 7:31 am
HS:

Headlights are standard for all full sized uprights too [and have been for years in the vacuum industry].  Dyson doesn't have one.  None.  Does that make dyson un-standard?  No, just means that dysons and the royal model you bought  do not meet the standards.  The norm for what is expecting.  Kind of like you! 

BTW, Consumer Reports is always critical of upright vacuums without manual rug height adjustments. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #126   Jul 5, 2008 8:02 am
CarmineD wrote:
HS:

Headlights are standard for all full sized uprights too [and have been for years in the vacuum industry].  Dyson doesn't have one.  None.  Does that make dyson un-standard?  No, just means that dysons and the royal model you bought  do not meet the standards.  The norm for what is expecting.  Kind of like you! 

BTW, Consumer Reports is always critical of upright vacuums without manual rug height adjustments. 

Carmine D.


So you were wrong and now want to twist the subject to headlights. No Dyson is not un-standard although you implied that it was.  Since Oreck does not have a manual height adjuster it is not the norm of what is expected. In fact, I do not think it has a means of adjusting height.  CR should be very critical of the Oreck.  Of course like you they have double standards.

The Royal has a head light.  So it is just as standart as the Oreck.

I would add the ability to turn off the brush roll as a desired standard.  Your Oreck and most Hoovers lack this feature.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #127   Jul 5, 2008 8:05 am
ORECK is a lightweight, 8 pounds.  Not a full size.  Tho Consumer Reports rates it against full size vacuums.  And the DeLuxe and XL 21 ORECK-s have headlights unlike dysons.

BTW, stick to the thread, dysons.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #128   Jul 5, 2008 8:12 am
CarmineD wrote:
ORECK is a lightweight, 8 pounds.  Not a full size.  Tho Consumer Reports rates it against full size vacuums.  And the DeLuxe and XL 21 ORECK-s have headlights unlike dysons.

BTW, stick to the thread, dysons.

Carmine D.



You said uprights.  Oreck is an upright. 

Headlights on a vacuum are like teats on a boar hog.  Useless.

Impossible to stick to topic when dealing with you.  That is your way of saying that you have once again been proven wrong and want to twist out of the conversation.

Golf is calling.  See ya later.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #129   Jul 5, 2008 8:16 am
HS:

I said full size uprights.  ORECK is not!

I'm too young to play golf.  Maybe when I get to be your age: Old. 

Better have that cup of joe before you go.  You'll need it!  The way you are fumbling and mumbling this morning.  Coffee will help. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #130   Jul 5, 2008 8:26 am
CarmineD wrote:
HS:

I said full size uprights.  ORECK is not!

I'm too young to play golf.  Maybe when I get to be your age: Old. 

Better have that cup of joe before you go.  You'll need it!  The way you are fumbling and mumbling this morning.  Coffee will help. 

Carmine D.



I alredy had the Joe.

This is what you said:  "BTW, Consumer Reports is always critical of upright vacuums without manual rug height adjustments" 

That crow is sticking in your throad this AM.  Better have a drink to wash it down

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #131   Jul 5, 2008 8:28 am
HS:

Go back and read the first quote of mine you posted.  And have another cup!  The first didn't work.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #132   Jul 5, 2008 8:32 am
CarmineD wrote:
HS:

Go back and read the first quote of mine you posted.  And have another cup!  The first didn't work.

Carmine D.



That was your opinion.  Then you said that CR is critical of uprights, not just full size.
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #133   Jul 5, 2008 8:34 am
And CR is critical of uprights without adjustments.  But I said that rug height adjustments are standard for full sized uprights in the USA.  Not CR.  Get the facts and sources straight.  2 cups of joe may help.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #134   Jul 5, 2008 10:10 am
Hello, Today July 5th HSN's "Today Special" is a Dyson DC07 (white on dark grey) packaged/bundled deal.  The bundled deal is - It comes with 3 extra tools and free shipping.

Question:  Are independent Dyson dealers allowed by Dyson to match this bundle and price?  If not, what can they do to respond to such a price?  Thanks.        DIB

Taken from HSN's web site...
Today's Price: $379.95
HSN Price: $429.95
 | You Save: $50.00
Retail Value: $549.78
FREE Shipping & Handling
Item: 345-186
Dyson DC07 Upright Cyclonic Vacuum Cleaner Includes: (The extras are highlighted in orange)

  • Crevice tool
  • Stair tool (floor tool)
  • Brush tool
  • Soft brush tool
  • Hard floor tool
  • Mini turbine head
  • Quick Start guide
  • Product manual
This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #135   Jul 5, 2008 10:26 am
You  could also add Riccar, Panasonic, Sharp and Aerus to the list of units without height adjustments. Pretty big names not following the "american standard".

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #136   Jul 5, 2008 3:03 pm
dusty wrote:
You  could also add Riccar, Panasonic, Sharp and Aerus to the list of units without height adjustments. Pretty big names not following the "american standard".

Dusty

Hello Dusty:

Depends on how you define "big names."  These brands typically are indy stores and not big box retailers.  Do you know some big box store brands sold along side dyson that don't have [headlights] and/or manual rug height adjustments?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #137   Jul 5, 2008 3:45 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Dusty:

Depends on how you define "big names."  These brands typically are indy stores and not big box retailers.  Do you know some big box store brands sold along side dyson that don't have [headlights] and/or manual rug height adjustments?

Carmine D.


Your original quote was that height adjustments were standard for ALL full size USA uprights.  Now it matters where  the product is sold?  Shall we assume most high end indy product is poor because it lacks a height adjustment?    For the record, last time I checked  Panasonic was sold in box stores, Eureka have models with no height adjustment as do Kenmore.  IMO the height adjust is  useless for most people,  the majority of machines that come in for repair are almost always set to the lowest setting.

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #138   Jul 5, 2008 5:23 pm
Dusty:

I stick by my statement.  Rug height adjustments are the standard for the industry for full size uprights.  Standard meaning the norm.  The norm because the majority of full sized uprights sold in big box stores and indy-s have rug height adjustments.  Is that better wordsmithing for all the dyson menschkins?

The point that I was making before this thread got diverted is this:  The dyson DC07 and DC14 are not suited for many USA carpets.  Why?  3 simple reasons.  First, the puny brush bar.  Not the industry standard in the USA.  Second, the lack of a rug height adjustment.  Also not the industry standard.  Third, the silly clutch brush bar shut off that is designed for obstructions.  It is engaged too easily by many of the carpets in the USA, unlike the UK. 

The latter so much so, dyson has a work around for it.  Remove the permanent gaskets on the permanent dyson soleplate.  One gasket first, and if that doesn't work, then the other.  If these work arounds don't work, then you're told to return the dyson.  Why?  Because if dysons won't work on your carpets after these 2 work arounds, they just won't work.  Period.  Which gets me back to my original point.  Not made for USA carpets especially if big box store venues.  Buyers get them home.  They don't work.  They are returned.  Ops. There's another dyson refurb.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #139   Jul 5, 2008 5:34 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DC18

Yes, I have.  I travelled through all the countries of Europe.  And for a time, thought seriously of starting a vacuum business there.  Thank you for asking.

No where in Europe are rugs and carpets as prevalent as they are here in the USA.  The USA households, with wall-to-wall carpeting, have matting/padding [some very high] which adds more height and depth to the carpet height.  Do you have that in the UK?   

The DC07 and 14, with their heavy rug head nozzles and no manual rug height adjustments [standard for all full size USA uprights] are hard to push and pull on many US rugs [especially with matting/padding added].  In turn, causing the typical classic dyson ratcheting noise so familiar with these models.

The dyson clutch and brush bar shut off [btw, puny dyson brush not meeting US industry standards] is meant for obstructions [in the UK].  Not to be engaged frequently during normal rug cleaning use [as it does with US med to high pile with backing].  

The combination of the puny dyson brush bar, clutch shut off, and lack of manual rug height adjustments are all the reasons that these models are not suited for many USA carpets.   

Carmine D.


Thanks for answering my question Carmine D.   Most UK houses have carpets (although in the 90's at least woodern floors were the in thing!, carpets making a comeback!) somewhere if not allover or in most rooms.  We have what we call 'under lay' under neath the carpet which can be different thicknesses!  Some carpet come back the under lay attached to the back (usually very thin)

I wouldn't say the pivoting head on the DC07 and DC14 are heavy (in my opinion)!  The idea or function is for it to float on top of the carpet.  How I see it thinker\longer pile carpet surely let air flow easier through the carpet piles unlike shorter\low pile carpets!

DC18

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #140   Jul 5, 2008 5:52 pm
dusty wrote:
You  could also add Riccar without height adjustments. Pretty big name not following the "american standard".

Dusty



BTW, the RICCAR Brilliance and Radiance, its top of the line uprights, have manual rug height adjustments.  As well as the 1800 RICCAR Premium canister and the 1700 RICCAR Simplicity canister.  Both top of the line full size canister vacuums.  6 position if I recall correctly.  Also the RICCAR 1500 Series canisters [mid size] have 6 position height adjustments.  If I recall.

None of the dysons do.  NONE.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #141   Jul 5, 2008 6:08 pm
dusty wrote:
Eureka have models with no height adjustment as do Kenmore.  IMO the height adjust is  useless for most people,  the majority of machines that come in for repair are almost always set to the lowest setting.

Dusty


EUREKA and Kenmore have models with manual rug height adjustments.  The Kenmore Progressive models, both in the upright and canisters.  Also top of the line models.  The EUREKA upright Boss Smart vacuum [$150] and Optima [$60] have rug height adjustments.  No dysons have rug height adjustments.  NONE.

The Electrolux Oxygen canister [owned, operated, and made by EUREKA] has a manual rug height adjustment.  As does the Twin Clean bagless canister [also owned, operated and made by EUREKA].   Also both are top of the line canisters.  No dysons have rug height adjustments.  NONE.

It is self-evident that in the USA rug height adjustments on vacuums are the norm, the standard, the expectation.  Even if dyson doesn't have them on any of its models.  NONE.   

Carmine D.

   

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #142   Jul 5, 2008 6:42 pm
dusty wrote:
Eureka have models with no height adjustment as do Kenmore.  IMO the height adjust is  useless for most people,  the majority of machines that come in for repair are almost always set to the lowest setting.

Dusty
CarmineD wrote:
EUREKA and Kenmore have models with manual rug height adjustments.  The Kenmore Progressive models, both in the upright and canisters.  Also top of the line models.  The EUREKA upright Boss Smart vacuum [$150] and Optima [$60] have rug height adjustments.  No dysons have rug height adjustments.  NONE.

The Electrolux Oxygen canister [owned, operated, and made by EUREKA] has a manual rug height adjustment.  As does the Twin Clean bagless canister [also owned, operated and made by EUREKA].   Also both are top of the line canisters.  No dysons have rug height adjustments.  NONE.

It is self-evident that in the USA rug height adjustments on vacuums are the norm, the standard, the expectation.  Even if dyson doesn't have them on any of its models.  NONE.  And HS's royal Eminence upright doesn't have one. 

Carmine D.

   

Carmine,

Dusty has a point with real life users…  How many folks actually dial in their height adjustments or even understand how to?  Dyson, it seems built the floating nozzle for this segment of people.  I have yet to read a review from a Dyson owner complaining of Dyson’s lack of height adjustments, besides the Oreck has no height adjustments.        DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #143   Jul 5, 2008 6:49 pm
ORECK is a lightweight and only 8 pounds not full size upright like dyson at 18 plus.  ORECK doesn't need a rug height adjustment and works well on all carpets save very high shag carpets. 

Dusty may have a point about rug height adjustments for carpets in Canada and UK.  Not the USA.  Not now and not in the past.  Rug height adjustments have been a staple on uprights for as long as the industry exists.  From the earliest 100 year old USA makes and models to the latest and greatest USA makes and models.  Rug adjustments and headlights have been the norm.  The standard.  The expectation.

At best dyson has 10 percent of the annual new vacuum sales in the USA.  20 million new vacuums are sold each year.  I'd say as a best guess that 75 percent of the new uprights sold every year have manual rug height adjustments.  Conservatively and consistently speaking.  That's a substantial majority.   If that were not the case, the rug height adjustments on vacuums would have gone the same route as sprayers and de-mothers.  And just as quick.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #144   Jul 5, 2008 8:39 pm
Hi Vacuum people.

The on going debate about auto height adjustments VS manual carpet height adjusters,has pros and cons.

The people that argue against them have a legit reason,99% of the consumers dont know what adjustment to use on their carpet height.

The auto adjustment is o.k. FOR MOST CARPETING, For heavy pile carpets with a thick padding these machine shall i say in a nice way  REALLY STRUGGLE.

There has to be a fine balance of the brushroll,belt and type of belt, and enough suction to pull dirt and dust into the bag or bin.[Not an overkill  by suction or brush roll design],

Most companies are still finding it very difficult to find this balance,Better step up the R@D,very few vacuum companies have figured this out.

I will offer a hint for them,any machine that uses a flat type belt or V belt,or even the trick kevlar belt,and has no height adjustments will continue to be problematic on todays carpeting.

Remember that 95% of vacuum trade ins or returns are due to belt and brushroll problems..........................

MOLE
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #145   Jul 5, 2008 9:15 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Dusty:

I stick by my statement.  Rug height adjustments are the standard for the industry for full size uprights.  Standard meaning the norm.  The norm because the majority of full sized uprights sold in big box stores and indy-s have rug height adjustments.  Is that better wordsmithing for all the dyson menschkins?

The point that I was making before this thread got diverted is this:  The dyson DC07 and DC14 are not suited for many USA carpets.  Why?  3 simple reasons.  First, the puny brush bar.  Not the industry standard in the USA.  Second, the lack of a rug height adjustment.  Also not the industry standard.  Third, the silly clutch brush bar shut off that is designed for obstructions.  It is engaged too easily by many of the carpets in the USA, unlike the UK. 

The latter so much so, dyson has a work around for it.  Remove the permanent gaskets on the permanent dyson soleplate.  One gasket first, and if that doesn't work, then the other.  If these work arounds don't work, then you're told to return the dyson.  Why?  Because if dysons won't work on your carpets after these 2 work arounds, they just won't work.  Period.  Which gets me back to my original point.  Not made for USA carpets especially if big box store venues.  Buyers get them home.  They don't work.  They are returned.  Ops. There's another dyson refurb.

Carmine D.


Your statement was actually height adjustments were the standard for ALL full size uprights.  You keep forgetting the All part when you requote yourself.

Dusty
This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by dusty
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #146   Jul 5, 2008 9:20 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Hello, Today July 5th HSN's "Today Special" is a Dyson DC07 (white on dark grey) packaged/bundled deal.  The bundled deal is - It comes with 3 extra tools and free shipping.

Question:  Are independent Dyson dealers allowed by Dyson to match this bundle and price?  If not, what can they do to respond to such a price?  Thanks.        DIB

Taken from HSN's web site...
Today's Price: $379.95
HSN Price: $429.95
 | You Save: $50.00
Retail Value: $549.78
FREE Shipping & Handling
Item: 345-186
Dyson DC07 Upright Cyclonic Vacuum Cleaner Includes: (The extras are highlighted in orange)

  • Crevice tool
  • Stair tool (floor tool)
  • Brush tool
  • Soft brush tool
  • Hard floor tool
  • Mini turbine head
  • Quick Start guide
  • Product manual

Hey DC18,

You should know the above HSN DC07 white on dark grey exclusive has sold 6500 units thus far today.        DIB


dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #147   Jul 5, 2008 9:42 pm
CarmineD wrote:
BTW, the RICCAR Brilliance and Radiance, its top of the line uprights, have manual rug height adjustments.  As well as the 1800 RICCAR Premium canister and the 1700 RICCAR Simplicity canister.  Both top of the line full size canister vacuums.  6 position if I recall correctly.  Also the RICCAR 1500 Series canisters [mid size] have 6 position height adjustments.  If I recall.

None of the dysons do.  NONE.

EUREKA and Kenmore have models with manual rug height adjustments.  The Kenmore Progressive models, both in the upright and canisters.  Also top of the line models.  The EUREKA upright Boss Smart vacuum [$150] and Optima [$60] have rug height adjustments.  No dysons have rug height adjustments.  NONE.

The Electrolux Oxygen canister [owned, operated, and made by EUREKA] has a manual rug height adjustment.  As does the Twin Clean bagless canister [also owned, operated and made by EUREKA].   Also both are top of the line canisters.  No dysons have rug height adjustments.  NONE.

It is self-evident that in the USA rug height adjustments on vacuums are the norm, the standard, the expectation.  Even if dyson doesn't have them on any of its models.  NONE.   

Carmine D.

   


Gee, thanks for all the information.  I am well aware that all these vacuums have height adjustments, that was never the issue at hand.  You said height adjusts were standard on ALL   full size US uprights, I gave you a few where that wasn't the case, you said that my list didn't count because they were sold by indys and asked for box store vacs...I gave those to you too.  For my trouble I get a lesson in all the vacs with height adjusts. Well, I'm game...here's a list for you.

The Eureka sweep @ groom powerhead has never had a height adjust but is probably the most commonly sold powerhead in North America

Electrolux, from the 60's to today (not the Eureka version) has never had a height adjust yet many consider the brand to be an American institution.

Tristar.  Sure lots of folks thought that air valve on the front was a height adjust but it just wasn't so.  No height adjust.  Never.

Panasonic uprights...never had a height adjust.

Eureka Maxima, no height adjust.

Oreck XL21 comes in at 11 pounds (according to Consumer Reports).  Does this count as a full size vac yet? It should for $700.  It's heavier than many Eureka and Hoover product. No height adjust but probably needs one as it rates only "good" in CR for carpet cleaning.

Riccar Vibrance line of uprights.  No height adjust....never....ever.

Eureka Air Extreme...no height adjustment

Riccar SL4.  Only 9 pounds but rates excellent for carpet cleaning in CR.  Gotta include this one...no height adjust.

Last but not least....All hoover quadraflex and windtunnel powerheads.  No height adjust.  Ever. 

Dusty
This message was modified Jul 5, 2008 by dusty
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #148   Jul 5, 2008 10:01 pm
Dusty,

Carmine is famous for changing the rules to the conversation/topic of conversation as needed.        DIB


dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #149   Jul 5, 2008 10:08 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Dusty,

Carmine is famous for changing the rules to the conversation/topic of conversation as needed.        DIB


I think he may have been a politician in his past life.

Dusty
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #150   Jul 5, 2008 10:12 pm
dusty wrote:
I think he may have been a politician in his past life.

Dusty


Carmine only lies when his lips are moving.
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #151   Jul 6, 2008 12:55 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:

Taken from HSN's web site...
Today's Price: $379.95
HSN Price: $429.95
 | You Save: $50.00
Retail Value: $549.78
FREE Shipping & Handling
Item: 345-186
Dyson DC07 Upright Cyclonic Vacuum Cleaner Includes: (The extras are highlighted in orange)

  • Crevice tool
  • Stair tool (floor tool)
  • Brush tool
  • Soft brush tool
  • Hard floor tool
  • Mini turbine head
  • Quick Start guide
  • Product manual

At final count, HSN sold 10,000 units today of the above DC07 bundle.  It is probably the largest (units sold) 1 day sale of Dyson anything.

.

Carmine, according to you the WM crowd is not buying Dyson's, this HSN one day sale proves there's still a lot of life in the DC07 and there are plenty who do like and can afford them (at the right price).        DIB

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #152   Jul 6, 2008 6:31 am
mole wrote:
Hi Vacuum people.

The on going debate about auto height adjustments VS manual carpet height adjusters,has pros and cons.

The people that argue against them have a legit reason,99% of the consumers dont know what adjustment to use on their carpet height.

The auto adjustment is o.k. FOR MOST CARPETING, For heavy pile carpets with a thick padding these machine shall i say in a nice way  REALLY STRUGGLE.

There has to be a fine balance of the brushroll,belt and type of belt, and enough suction to pull dirt and dust into the bag or bin.[Not an overkill  by suction or brush roll design],

Most companies are still finding it very difficult to find this balance,Better step up the R@D,very few vacuum companies have figured this out.

I will offer a hint for them,any machine that uses a flat type belt or V belt,or even the trick kevlar belt,and has no height adjustments will continue to be problematic on todays carpeting.

Remember that 95% of vacuum trade ins or returns are due to belt and brushroll problems..........................

MOLE

Thanks.  I read a Sebo patent that said it had a non-motorized auto height adjustment mechanisium.  Sebo said one of the advantages to non-motorized was that motorized was problematic due to motor failure or alike.  Have  you or anyone ever seen a Sebo non-motorized height adjustment?        DIB


DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #153   Jul 6, 2008 6:55 am
Hello DIB

Thats alot of units sold on the DC07!!

By the way my Sebo Felix has a non motorised height adjustment!

DC18

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #154   Jul 6, 2008 6:58 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Today's Price: $379.95

Carmine, according to you the WM crowd is not buying Dyson's, this HSN one day sale proves there's still a lot of life in the DC07 and there are plenty who do like and can afford them (at the right price).        DIB


Hey DIB:

Where's the proof?  HSN?  Sorry.  Takes more to convince me than HSN say so.  It's hype and hawk.  Makes for a good show.  Get the TV crowd lathered up to peak their demand and buy before it sells out.  Like old fashioned auctions.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #155   Jul 6, 2008 7:05 am
Hey Dusty:

You forgot one.  The halo, the most recent upright to launch in the USA.  With the UV-C light for germ extermination.  MSRP $499 but cheaper on store shelves now.  Has a manual rug height adjustment.  The standard, the norm, the expectation for all full size uprights in the USA industry.  Not on any dysons.  NONE.

With regard to the ORECK upright, its well documented here by me in discussions with MOLE that even the most expensive ORECK upright won't work well on high pile shags.  And ORECK store staff are specifically told to ask/nix the sale if customers have these carpets.  Nothing new from you, my man.  I said it first.

The majority of new uprights made and sold in the USA every year have rug height adjustments.  And headlights.  Industry standards.  Dyson doesn't.  NONE.

Carmine D.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #156   Jul 6, 2008 7:07 am
dusty wrote:
I think he may have been a politician in his past life.

Dusty



I lived in a suburb of Wash DC for many years.  What can I say?  And worked in Wash DC for some years!  Lobbyist for the vacuum industry?  Who knows? 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #157   Jul 6, 2008 7:12 am
DC18 wrote:

I wouldn't say the pivoting head on the DC07 and DC14 are heavy (in my opinion)!  The idea or function is for it to float on top of the carpet.  How I see it thinker\longer pile carpet surely let air flow easier through the carpet piles unlike shorter\low pile carpets!

DC18



Hello DC18:

Here's the flaw in your thinking, which in theory is great but practice is not.  It is legendary in the USA with the HOOVER Dial in the early 60's.  Also lauded for self-adjusting floating head.  But murder to push and pull over many of the carpets of the day.  HOOVER added a 3 position manual height adjustment within 1 year and the now famous automatic power drive shortly after.

The floating head 'sinks' into medium and high carpets [especially with backing and padding].  Making the dysons DC07 and DC14 hard to push and pull.  And setting off the clutch shut off on the brush bar. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #158   Jul 6, 2008 7:18 am
CarmineD wrote:
Dusty:

The latter so much so, dyson has a work around for it.  Remove the permanent gaskets on the permanent dyson soleplate.  One gasket first, and if that doesn't work, then the other.  If these work arounds don't work, then you're told to return the dyson.  Why?  Because if dysons won't work on your carpets after these 2 work arounds, they just won't work.  Period.  Which gets me back to my original point.  Not made for USA carpets especially if big box store venues.  Buyers get them home.  They don't work.  They are returned.  Ops. There's another dyson refurb.

Carmine D.



Surprising no one of the dyson menschkins commented on the dyson work around and my conspicuous use of permanent.

After laughing at the suggestions and actually doing them to see if they work, I made this argument with several dyson help line techs about this work around.  Suppose like many vacuum users I have carpets with different heights and thicknesses.  If I use the work around to assist with vacuuming on one style of carpet [keep the gawdawful ratcheting noise from giving the household members anxiety attacks], rug performance then suffers on the other rugs and carpets.  Why?  The soleplate and gaskets are meant to be permanent on the dysons.  Not to be taken off and on [get it: permanent] for every change in carpet style and cleaning.  Dyson's help response:  Return the dyson to the retailer it won't work on your carpets.  Ops! There goes another dyson refurb.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #159   Jul 6, 2008 7:21 am

Carmine,

I invite you to phone the FTC and NY Times and alike and share with them how Barry Diller’s HSN are lying, I am certain they would be interested.  Then let us know how the scheme works too.        DIB

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE0DD173EF932A15753C1A961958260


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #160   Jul 6, 2008 7:23 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:

Carmine,

I invite you to phone the FTC and NY Times and alike and share with them how Barry Diller’s HSN are lying, I am certain they would be interested.  Then let us know how the scheme works too.        DIB

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE0DD173EF932A15753C1A961958260



Hey DIB:

I hear Barry is looking to sell HSN!  Have you?  The NEW YORK Times.  Ah yes!  Now there's an honest newsprint paper?  For bleeding heart liberals maybe!

Did I say lie?  I said showmanship Mr. DIB!  It's part of sales.  You know that by now.  Tell me something: How do they get those sales numbers to record so quickly and accurately on the TV screen when it takes many hours after the voting elections to record the tallies?  Interesting?  Maybe I'll ask Barry and he can tell me? 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #161   Jul 6, 2008 7:32 am
CarmineD wrote:
Surprising no one of the dyson menschkins commented on the dyson work around and my conspicuous use of permanent.

After laughing at the suggestions and actually doing them to see if they work, I made this argument with several dyson help line techs about this work around.  Suppose like many vacuum users I have carpets with different heights and thicknesses.  If I use the work around to assist with vacuuming on one style of carpet [keep the gawdawful ratcheting noise from giving the household members anxiety attacks], rug performance then suffers on the other rugs and carpets.  Why?  The soleplate and gaskets are meant to be permanent on the dysons.  Not to be taken off off and on for every change in carpet style and cleaning.  Dyson response:  Return the dyson to the retailer it won't work on your carpets.  Ops! There goes another dyson refurb.

Carmine D.



Carmine,

You make a valid point (making a fix for one carpet, but having other carpet requirements too).  The bigger issue and real issue is what percentage of Dyson buyers have this problem.  My guess is - not enough to matter.    DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #162   Jul 6, 2008 7:38 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Carmine,

You make a valid point (making a fix for one carpet, but having other carpet requirements too).  The bigger issue and real issue is what percentage of Dyson buyers have this problem.  My guess is - not enough to matter.    DIB


Thank you again for recognizing constructive criticism.  Dyson people were not as gracious on the phone.

BTW, that's a cop out DIB for a permanent fix especially without proof.  It mattered enough in the 1960's for HOOVER to correct on the Dial to add adjustments and even self-propel feature for people with such carpets.  EUREKA too.  And still!

Have things changed that much in the rug industry?  I doubt it.  Not on with my carpets and 2 others whom I gifted the pink DC07 dyson.  Same problem.  Clutch and ratcheting noise getting set off and disengaging the brush bar.  Ops there goes another refurb! 

More logically and practically, it could not be done by dyson even with 450 engineers.  So it made the decision it was not worth doing!

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #163   Jul 6, 2008 7:59 am
DC18 wrote:
Hello DIB

Thats alot of units sold on the DC07!!

By the way my Sebo Felix has a non motorised height adjustment!

DC18


Hey DC,

Does it work?  Buy the way, it is a big race day for England today, the Silvestone F1 race.  I'll be watching.        DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #164   Jul 6, 2008 8:09 am
dusty wrote:
Your original quote was that height adjustments were standard for ALL full size USA uprights.  Now it matters where  the product is sold?  Shall we assume most high end indy product is poor because it lacks a height adjustment?    For the record, last time I checked  Panasonic was sold in box stores, Eureka have models with no height adjustment as do Kenmore.  IMO the height adjust is  useless for most people,  the majority of machines that come in for repair are almost always set to the lowest setting.

Dusty
mole wrote:
Hi Vacuum people.


Remember that 95% of vacuum trade ins or returns are due to belt and brushroll problems..........................

MOLE



Dusty: 

MOLE gave you the reason.  The majority of vacuum repairs come in with problems due to brush roll and belt.  Hence, the users set their vacuums to the lowest rug height to get better performance as the vacuums' service degrades.  The reason to set it higher is to make it easier to push and pull over carpets IF THE VACUUMS ARE WORKING PROPERLY.  Repairs are not!

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #165   Jul 6, 2008 8:09 am
CarmineD wrote:
Thank you again for recognizing constructive criticism.  Dyson people were not as gracious on the phone.

BTW, that's a cop out DIB for a permanent fix especially without proof.  It mattered enough in the 1960's for HOOVER to correct on the Dial to add adjustments and even self-propel feature for people with such carpets.  EUREKA too.  And still!

Have things changed that much in the rug industry?  I doubt it.  Not on with my carpets and 2 others whom I gifted the pink DC07 dyson.  Same problem.  Clutch and ratcheting noise getting set off and disengaging the brush bar.  Ops there goes another refurb! 

More logically and practically, it could not be done by dyson even with 450 engineers.  So it made the decision it was not worth doing!

Carmine D.


Carmine,

I do enjoy these conversations (much of the time), when you are right I have no problem saying so.  I do not think is is possible to make a floating head work really good on all types of carpeting without height adjustment.

Having a product that does not satisfy the smallest segment of consumers is by no means a bad thing.  Was every single customer who left your place of business filled with elation?        DIB

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #166   Jul 6, 2008 8:19 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Carmine,

Having a product that does not satisfy the smallest segment of consumers is by no means a bad thing.  Was every single customer who left your place of business filled with elation?        DIB

      DIB


DIB:

That's a loaded question.  Here's my loaded answer.  ALL the female customers were always.  Regardless of their ages.   99.99999999999 of the male customers.  Never had one complaint formerly registered with a vacuum maker/BBB/Chamber of Commerce in over 40 years of business. 

Had two incidents of attempted robbery in the evening hours.  Overcame both by my lonesome, without the use of a handgun.  I can say with 100 percent certainty the perps did not leave elated!

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #167   Jul 6, 2008 8:22 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Hey DC,

Does it work?  Buy the way, it is a big race day for England today, the Silvestone F1 race.  I'll be watching.        DIB

Hi DIB

Yes it does work very well, it has 4 manual settings which if you have it on the wrong one the machine tells you with a red/orange light.  This I believe is sensored by the brush bar itself!  You then change to it until the light goes out!  I used 2 and 3 mainly!  I was quite surprised how well the brush bar on this machine works even when on setting 4 on my medium pile carpet!  The pile get lifted and groomed very well.

Yes it is, I might watch it!

DC18

DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #168   Jul 6, 2008 8:24 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DC18:

Here's the flaw in your thinking, which in theory is great but practice is not.  It is legendary in the USA with the HOOVER Dial in the early 60's.  Also lauded for self-adjusting floating head.  But murder to push and pull over many of the carpets of the day.  HOOVER added a 3 position manual height adjustment within 1 year and the now famous automatic power drive shortly after.

The floating head 'sinks' into medium and high carpets [especially with backing and padding].  Making the dysons DC07 and DC14 hard to push and pull.  And setting off the clutch shut off on the brush bar. 

Carmine D.


Thanks for you thoughts Carmine D.

DC18

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #169   Jul 6, 2008 8:29 am
DC18 wrote:
Hi DIB

Yes it does work very well, it has 4 manual settings which if you have it on the wrong one the machine tells you with a red/orange light.  This I believe is sensored by the brush bar itself!  You then change to it until the light goes out!  I used 2 and 3 mainly!  I was quite surprised how well the brush bar on this machine works even when on setting 4 on my medium pile carpet!  The pile get lifted and groomed very well.

Yes it is, I might watch it!

DC18



DC,

You're saying this auto-height adjustment (non-motorized) still requires a manual switch?  Thanks.        DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #170   Jul 6, 2008 8:33 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Carmine,

Having a product that does not satisfy the smallest segment of consumers is by no means a bad thing.         DIB


DIB:

From dyson product literature:

A dyson vacuum cleaner has excellent dirt pick-up from ALL surfaces-not just carpets.

It doesn't say except some.  In fact it's one of 4 reasons dyson says customers should buy dysons.

Well, Dusty: Mr. Wordsmither, what do you think when dyson uses the collective ALL versus me?  Gets a pass?  Like LNT and BBB?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #171   Jul 6, 2008 8:38 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Carmine,

I do enjoy these conversations (much of the time), when you are right I have no problem saying so.        DIB


Who makes that determination?  You?  The dyson fans?  Me?  Let me know, I want to meet the person.

The truth is the truth, regardless if no one believes it.  A falsehood is false even if everyone believes it. 

Carmine D.

DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #172   Jul 6, 2008 8:54 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
DC,

You're saying this auto-height adjustment (non-motorized) still requires a manual switch?  Thanks.        DIB

DIB

Sorry misread your point, the Sebo Felix is fully manual height adjustment no auto involved!

Be interesting to see how a non-motorized auto height adjustment mechanisium works!

DC18

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #173   Jul 6, 2008 9:01 am
DC18 wrote:
DIB

Sorry misread your point, the Sebo Felix is fully manual height adjustment no auto involved!

Be interesting to see how a non-motorized auto height adjustment mechanisium works!

DC18



No problem.        DIB


dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #174   Jul 6, 2008 11:44 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Thanks.  I read a Sebo patent that said it had a non-motorized auto height adjustment mechanisium.  Sebo said one of the advantages to non-motorized was that motorized was problematic due to motor failure or alike.  Have  you or anyone ever seen a Sebo non-motorized height adjustment?        DIB

Hi DIB,

Add the Sebo G3 to the list of manual height adjusted units. It's basically a commercial version of the X4 series.  Odd about the problem of motor failure..I think I've only ever replaced one of the servo units in all the time we've carried Sebo.

Dusty
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #175   Jul 6, 2008 11:52 am
CarmineD wrote:

With regard to the ORECK upright, its well documented here by me in discussions with MOLE that even the most expensive ORECK upright won't work well on high pile shags.  And ORECK store staff are specifically told to ask/nix the sale if customers have these carpets.  Nothing new from you, my man.  I said it first.



CR do their testing on a medium pile carpet, not high pile shag. 

Dusty
DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #176   Jul 6, 2008 12:17 pm
dusty wrote:
Hi DIB,

Add the Sebo G3 to the list of manual height adjusted units. It's basically a commercial version of the X4 series.  Odd about the problem of motor failure..I think I've only ever replaced one of the servo units in all the time we've carried Sebo.

Dusty

One thing I like about the Sebo X4 automatic motorised height adjustment apparently it takes into consideration brush ware on the brush bar.  Only thing you can't do with the X4 is turn the brush bar off!  Well not on the UK models!

DC18

DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #177   Jul 6, 2008 12:17 pm
dusty wrote:
Hi DIB,

Add the Sebo G3 to the list of manual height adjusted units. It's basically a commercial version of the X4 series.  Odd about the problem of motor failure..I think I've only ever replaced one of the servo units in all the time we've carried Sebo.

Dusty

One thing I like about the Sebo X4 automatic motorised height adjustment apparently it takes into consideration brush ware on the brush bar.  Only thing you can't do with the X4 is turn the brush bar off!  Well not on the UK models!

DC18

mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #178   Jul 6, 2008 12:40 pm
You Guys are getting a little warmer,take a look at the sebo,X series,the windsor commercial machine,the aerus/electrolux legacy/commercial upright,The lindhaus powerhead,the wessel works ebk series powerheads, even the old centec 600 series powerhead,they are very similar in the way they are set up.

As far as i know electrolux started this trend with the PN1,back in 1960.........They are now in their seventh series powerheads,

Simply stated the aerus/electrolux powerhead and attachments can not be touched.Often copied but never duplicated,

Aerus/electrolux is the ICON of vacuums. You are free to challenge me any time you want to about it................

MOLE

dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #179   Jul 6, 2008 1:12 pm
DC18 wrote:
One thing I like about the Sebo X4 automatic motorised height adjustment apparently it takes into consideration brush ware on the brush bar.  Only thing you can't do with the X4 is turn the brush bar off!  Well not on the UK models!

DC18


Can't turn it off on US / CDN models either.  That said, it doesn't seem to really matter as all the Sebo's perform well on hard surface.

Dusty
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #180   Jul 6, 2008 1:23 pm
CarmineD wrote:
DIB:

From dyson product literature:

A dyson vacuum cleaner has excellent dirt pick-up from ALL surfaces-not just carpets.

It doesn't say except some.  In fact it's one of 4 reasons dyson says customers should buy dysons.

Well, Dusty: Mr. Wordsmither, what do you think when dyson uses the collective ALL versus me?  Gets a pass?  Like LNT and BBB?

Carmine D.


In this case I would take the statement to mean bare floors, something the majority of uprights fail at.  As far as Dyson using "All" as opposed to you, the difference is clear.  Dyson told you the vacuum wouldn't work on your particular carpet and to bring it back...they admitted it would not do the job.  You on the other hand refuse to admit much of anything when it's pointed out you are incorrect and instead pump out posts with answers to questions that were never even asked.  You said, once again that height adjustments were the standard on ALL USA vacuums.  That wasn't true.  If you'd just said you were incorrect and then claimed it's standard on most uprights this conversation would have been over 4 pages ago.

I am curious to your thoughts,  nowhere on the Oreck website does it state that the XL21 is not recommended for shag carpets.  If everyone in the Oreck stores knows this and sells away from it shouldn't  it also be on the website?

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #181   Jul 6, 2008 2:10 pm
A much maligned here HOOVER upright, the Z, has a patented DigiTouch Control pad with switch settings that adjust automatically to carpet height adjustments for high, medium, and low and bare floor.  THe Z 700 even has a soft brush mode for the brush roll.

As an aside:  Contrary to popular beliefs and posts here that these Z models would not last, they continue to be available for sale from HOOVER.  Prices are:  $289 and $369.   

The Z 400 I gifted to a local Church back in November 2007 is still going strong under commercial cleaning requirements.  I see it being used and abused regularly by the maintenance staff who say it is their vacuum of choice.  I'm thinking about gifting the DC07 pink too.  Let the clean up staff match them off.  Should be a fair match up.  The dyson is 2 years old and never used.  The HOOVER Z is 8 months and used and abused daily. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #182   Jul 6, 2008 2:28 pm
dusty wrote:

I am curious to your thoughts,  nowhere on the Oreck website does it state that the XL21 is not recommended for shag carpets.  If everyone in the Oreck stores knows this and sells away from it shouldn't  it also be on the website?

Dusty


Hey Dusty:

My thoughts are threefold:  First:  ORECK doesn't make the written claim that it cleans excellent on ALL surfaces, like dyson does in its product literature for customers.  ALL surfaces, not just carpets.   That's false.  Why? The dyson claim implies ALL carpets.  It doesn't.  

Second:  ORECK gives a 30 day free in home trial period.  If not satisfied, send it back free of any charges.  ORECK pays the shipping back. 

Finally, third:  ORECK, even the XL21 Titanium, will not work on 'really long shag style of carpet.'  I suspect most owners of these carpets know that they need a vacuum with a manual rug height adjustment.  They don't need to be told.

How prevalent is 'really long shag style carpet' in USA households?  Worthy of a mention on a Web Site?  No.  Certainly worthy to a buyer face to face in the store.  

My home's highest carpet heights are medium pile wool loop with upgrade backing.  Also lower thicknesses including indoor/outdoor.  Dyson DC07 pink struck out on my wool medium loop.  How prevalent is medium pile loop with backing in USA households?  Pretty much so I'd say.  More so than really long shag in my opinion. 

Dyson didn't work even with the dyson work arounds which the tech line spouted off like routine clockwork:  To remove the permanent gaskets from the permanent soleplate.  They encountered this problem long before I called. 

I didn't mention this, but its worthy of mention.  Before the dyson help line told me to take it back, it won't work, I was told to use the hose and a barefloor brush to vacuum the rugs.  I laughed even more than removing the permanent gaskets.  Spouted off like it was routine SOP.

Ops, there goes another dyson refurb! 

ORECK works fine for the last year.  Easy to push and pull.  A delight to use.  Goes over the barefloors, ceramic tile, by itself with no effort.  Literally.  When in the upright position, it moves across the floor by itself.  $150, 8 pounds and works great.  DC07 pink cost me $250 with all the store give backs.  Dead in the water from day one and still.  Medium pile wool loop. 

What are your thoughts on the reason dyson doesn't qualify its statement for DC07 and DC14 for ALL carpets? 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #183   Jul 6, 2008 4:01 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DC18:

Here's the flaw in your thinking, which in theory is great but practice is not.  It is legendary in the USA with the HOOVER Dial in the early 60's.  Also lauded for self-adjusting floating head.  But murder to push and pull over many of the carpets of the day.  HOOVER added a 3 position manual height adjustment within 1 year and the now famous automatic power drive shortly after.

The floating head 'sinks' into medium and high carpets [especially with backing and padding].  Making the dysons DC07 and DC14 hard to push and pull.  And setting off the clutch shut off on the brush bar. 

Carmine D.



My DC07 and DC14 was very to push and pull because the head did not sink into the carpet as you imply.   Never got the ratcheting noise. 

Your case (as are you ) is and odd one.

HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #184   Jul 6, 2008 4:04 pm
CarmineD wrote:

Dusty: 

MOLE gave you the reason.  The majority of vacuum repairs come in with problems due to brush roll and belt.  Hence, the users set their vacuums to the lowest rug height to get better performance as the vacuums' service degrades.  The reason to set it higher is to make it easier to push and pull over carpets IF THE VACUUMS ARE WORKING PROPERLY.  Repairs are not!

Carmine D.



Notice dusty did not say Dyson has the brush / belt problem.  The service degrades on bagged vacuums as soon as you start filling the bag.  That eliminates Dyson doesn't it.  A vacuum should not be set at its highest setting simply to make it easier to push or pull.  I am sure that you know why.
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #185   Jul 6, 2008 4:08 pm
CarmineD wrote:
DIB:

From dyson product literature:

A dyson vacuum cleaner has excellent dirt pick-up from ALL surfaces-not just carpets.

It doesn't say except some.  In fact it's one of 4 reasons dyson says customers should buy dysons.

Well, Dusty: Mr. Wordsmither, what do you think when dyson uses the collective ALL versus me?  Gets a pass?  Like LNT and BBB?

Carmine D.



The Dyson does pick up dirt from all surfaces.  They never said all carpets, just all surfaces.  Sounds like some of your posts.  Like all uprights.  Then you start making exclusions when you get caught in another lie.

BTW, Dyson doesn't give a crap about the opinion of an habitual liar like you.

HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #186   Jul 6, 2008 4:27 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hey Dusty:

My thoughts are threefold:  First:  ORECK doesn't make the written claim that it cleans excellent on ALL surfaces, like dyson does in its product literature for customers.  ALL surfaces, not just carpets.   That's false.  Why? The dyson claim implies ALL carpets.  It doesn't.  

Dyson made no false claims.  Only a moron would thinlk all carpets. 

Second:  ORECK gives a 30 day free in home trial period.  If not satisfied, send it back free of any charges.  ORECK pays the shipping back. 

Buy the Dyson at a BB and you can do tghe same thing.  Oreck is not unique here.

Finally, third:  ORECK, even the XL21 Titanium, will not work on 'really long shag style of carpet.'  I suspect most owners of these carpets know that they need a vacuum with a manual rug height adjustment.  They don't need to be told.

Why did you make this statement if you think most customers know that they need the manual adjustment?  Now you say they don't need to be told.  Another reversal on your part.

MOLE gave you the reason.  The majority of vacuum repairs come in with problems due to brush roll and belt.  Hence, the users set their vacuums to the lowest rug height to get better performance as the vacuums' service degrades.  The reason to set it higher is to make it easier to push and pull over carpets IF THE VACUUMS ARE WORKING PROPERLY.  Repairs are not!

Carmine D.

How prevalent is 'really long shag style carpet' in USA households?  Worthy of a mention on a Web Site?  No.  Certainly worthy to a buyer face to face in the store.  

See if this is correct please.  Dyson should say not effective on all carpet types and Oreck should not say this.  Does anyone see another of Carmine's double standards?

My home's highest carpet heights are medium pile wool loop with upgrade backing.  Also lower thicknesses including indoor/outdoor.  Dyson DC07 pink struck out on my wool medium loop.  How prevalent is medium pile loop with backing in USA households?  Pretty much so I'd say.  More so than really long shag in my opinion. 

It seems that the big difference in my carpet and yours is the type of material.  No Dyson ever gave a problem on mine.  I have used the DC07 on thick wool carpet at a relatives home and again no problem.

Dyson didn't work even with the dyson work arounds which the tech line spouted off like routine clockwork:  To remove the permanent gaskets from the permanent soleplate.  They encountered this problem long before I called. 

I didn't mention this, but its worthy of mention.  Before the dyson help line told me to take it back, it won't work, I was told to use the hose and a barefloor brush to vacuum the rugs.  I laughed even more than removing the permanent gaskets.  Spouted off like it was routine SOP.

Ops, there goes another dyson refurb! 

ORECK works fine for the last year.  Easy to push and pull.  A delight to use.  Goes over the barefloors, ceramic tile, by itself with no effort.  Literally.  When in the upright position, it moves across the floor by itself.  $150, 8 pounds and works great.  DC07 pink cost me $250 with all the store give backs.  Dead in the water from day one and still.  Medium pile wool loop. 

Really, a vacuum that goes over hard surfaces with ease.  Wonders never cease.  I never realized that Oreck was self propelled.  How else could it go by itself?  It is no surprise that your electric broom glides over carpet.  No suction to pull it into the carpet.

What are your thoughts on the reason dyson doesn't qualify its statement for DC07 and DC14 for ALL carpets? 

Sounds like the copied you and Oreck by not revealing the whole truth.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #187   Jul 6, 2008 4:45 pm
dusty wrote:
Hi DIB,

Add the Sebo G3 to the list of manual height adjusted units. It's basically a commercial version of the X4 series.  Odd about the problem of motor failure..I think I've only ever replaced one of the servo units in all the time we've carried Sebo.

Dusty

Dusty,

 

Thanks for the info.  I think Sebo simply put in some “background” for one of the reasons for their patent/invention, keeping costs down was mentioned too.  To be more specific Sebo did not say their motor or servos were a problem, only in general.  I take it you have not seen a non-motored height adjustment either?        DIB

 

Here is the patent:  http://www.google.com/patents?id=Y9mBAAAAEBAJ&dq=7,266,861


dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #188   Jul 6, 2008 4:51 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hey Dusty:

My thoughts are threefold:  First:  ORECK doesn't make the written claim that it cleans excellent on ALL surfaces, like dyson does in its product literature for customers.  ALL surfaces, not just carpets.   That's false.  Why? The dyson claim implies ALL carpets.  It doesn't.  

Second:  ORECK gives a 30 day free in home trial period.  If not satisfied, send it back free of any charges.  ORECK pays the shipping back. 

Finally, third:  ORECK, even the XL21 Titanium, will not work on 'really long shag style of carpet.'  I suspect most owners of these carpets know that they need a vacuum with a manual rug height adjustment.  They don't need to be told.

How prevalent is 'really long shag style carpet' in USA households?  Worthy of a mention on a Web Site?  No.  Certainly worthy to a buyer face to face in the store.  

My home's highest carpet heights are medium pile wool loop with upgrade backing.  Also lower thicknesses including indoor/outdoor.  Dyson DC07 pink struck out on my wool medium loop.  How prevalent is medium pile loop with backing in USA households?  Pretty much so I'd say.  More so than really long shag in my opinion. 

Dyson didn't work even with the dyson work arounds which the tech line spouted off like routine clockwork:  To remove the permanent gaskets from the permanent soleplate.  They encountered this problem long before I called. 

I didn't mention this, but its worthy of mention.  Before the dyson help line told me to take it back, it won't work, I was told to use the hose and a barefloor brush to vacuum the rugs.  I laughed even more than removing the permanent gaskets.  Spouted off like it was routine SOP.

Ops, there goes another dyson refurb! 

ORECK works fine for the last year.  Easy to push and pull.  A delight to use.  Goes over the barefloors, ceramic tile, by itself with no effort.  Literally.  When in the upright position, it moves across the floor by itself.  $150, 8 pounds and works great.  DC07 pink cost me $250 with all the store give backs.  Dead in the water from day one and still.  Medium pile wool loop. 

What are your thoughts on the reason dyson doesn't qualify its statement for DC07 and DC14 for ALL carpets? 

Carmine D.


Thanks for finally answering a question. Though I have noticed that once again the whole conversation has turned away from your original inaccurate comments without any hint of admittance that you were incorrect in your statement. Nice one.

On your second point, good for Oreck.  Everybody should give a 30 day money back policy.  We do at our store and you'll find most department stores do too.  The fact is that no matter what is claimed all houses, applications, carpets, and floors are different. You never really know if any product will work in your environment until you get it home.

On your third point, you give to much credit to the customer. Do you believe that the majority of people that shop for vacuums in a box store really know what they want or need?  I've stood in vacuum aisles at Wal-Mart and watched people choose.  They go for color, amps, bagless. 

On your customer service rep at Dyson, he /she is no different than any other rep.  They all have pat answers to questions in the hopes of saving a sale and keeping the customer happy.  When all else fails, return the product.

You are always quick to mention Dyson refurbs.  What happens to all the Orecks that get sent back under free trial? 

As to your last question, I believe I answered that in the last post.  The Dyson statement was "cleans all surfaces, not just carpets".  I read that as it works all around the home, not just on carpets.  Use it on your floor, dust with it, clean the car...whatever. Nowhere does it say it works on "ALL" carpets.

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #189   Jul 6, 2008 6:24 pm
Hello Dusty:

What happens to the ORECK-S that get returned within the 30 days? Well good buddy, I don't know.  Not a clue.  But I will ask my ORECK sources and post.

What I do know with absolute certainty is this:  I bought an ORECK XL Classic and use it daily.  Getting ready to right now.  I was so impressed and pleased I bought 3 more and will buy more no doubt.  I gifted the 3 to family members who use them almost exclusively for their rugs and floors.  Tho they have other vacuums.  They are completely as satisfied with their ORECK-s as I am. 

I have several very dear and close friends for many years who also own and use ORECK-S.  Old to very new ORECK-s.  They are pleased too. 

I have several neighbors here in LV too who own and use ORECK-s..  The same is true for them.  I know a store owner of a mailing service here in NLV who actually asked his store workers [both men and women] to match a new ORECK against a new dyson DC07.  I posted about it a year before I bought my ORECK.  The winner by unanimous decision after several weeks of use and still:  Yep, the ORECK, hands down, no contest.  Even the store worker who supplied her DC07 for the test, liked the ORECK [purchased by the store owner] better.  BTW, the store owner is a life-long ORECK user.

In my entire life and my 40 plus years of vacuum career, I've known only two dissatisfied ORECK users.  That's HS and MOTOR.  While I don't doubt their opinions, they certainly and unequivocally do not speak for all the ORECK users I know, including myself.  That's what the 30 day free home trial is for.  To weed out the 2 ORECK users that I know in 40 plus years.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #190   Jul 6, 2008 6:38 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Dusty:

What happens to the ORECK-S that get returned within the 30 days? Well good buddy, I don't know.  Not a clue.  But I will ask my ORECK sources and post.

What I do know with absolute certainty is this:  I bought an ORECK XL Classic and use it daily.  Getting ready to right now.  I was so impressed and pleased I bought 3 more and will buy more no doubt.  I gifted the 3 to family members who use them almost exclusively for their rugs and floors.  Tho they have other vacuums.  They are completely as satisfied with their ORECK-s as I am. 

I have several very dear and close friends for many years who also own and use ORECK-S.  Old to very new ORECK-s.  They are pleased too. 

I have several neighbors here in LV too who own and use ORECK-s..  The same is true for them.  I know a store owner of a mailing service here in NLV who actually asked his store workers [both men and women] to match a new ORECK against a new dyson DC07.  I posted about it a year before I bought my ORECK.  The winner by unanimous decision after several weeks of use and still:  Yep, the ORECK, hands down, no contest.  Even the store worker who supplied her DC07 for the test, liked the ORECK [purchased by the store owner] better.  BTW, the store owner is a life-long ORECK user.

In my entire life and my 40 plus years of vacuum career, I've known only two dissatisfied ORECK users.  That's HS and MOTOR.  While I don't doubt their opinions, they certainly and unequivocally do not speak for all the ORECK users I know, including myself.  That's what the 30 day free home trial is for.  To weed out the 2 ORECK users that I know in 40 plus years.

Carmine D.


 Did you ever sell Oreck in your store?  Was there a reason you did or didn't?

Dusty
This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by dusty
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #191   Jul 6, 2008 9:22 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Dusty:

What happens to the ORECK-S that get returned within the 30 days? Well good buddy, I don't know.  Not a clue.  But I will ask my ORECK sources and post.

Most likely Ol Dave cleans em and sells them and includes a free gift. On the othe rhand he may just scrap them as they are useless anyways.

What I do know with absolute certainty is this:  I bought an ORECK XL Classic and use it daily.  Getting ready to right now.  I was so impressed and pleased I bought 3 more and will buy more no doubt.  I gifted the 3 to family members who use them almost exclusively for their rugs and floors.  Tho they have other vacuums.  They are completely as satisfied with their ORECK-s as I am. 

I used my DC07 regularly for three years.  It cleaned so well that there was no need to use it daily.  I have recommended Dyson to many who then purchased them.  Not one is unhappy with their purchase.

How did you explain to then that you were wrong about Hoover being the best and that you should have recommended Oreck way back when.

I have several very dear and close friends for many years who also own and use ORECK-S.  Old to very new ORECK-s.  They are pleased too. 

Likely because they are too weak to use a FULL SIZE vacuum.  Also likely that they do not know the difference in an Oreck and a great vacuum. 

I have several neighbors here in LV too who own and use ORECK-s..  The same is true for them.  I know a store owner of a mailing service here in NLV who actually asked his store workers [both men and women] to match a new ORECK against a new dyson DC07.  I posted about it a year before I bought my ORECK.  The winner by unanimous decision after several weeks of use and still:  Yep, the ORECK, hands down, no contest.  Even the store worker who supplied her DC07 for the test, liked the ORECK [purchased by the store owner] better.  BTW, the store owner is a life-long ORECK user.

Again, likely old and weak neighbors who only want to move the dust around the room.  Can't handle a FULL SIZE vacuum.  We had another regular member on another forum who used Dyson daily in his business.  He even vacuumed sheet rock dust with no problem.  I am sure his Dysons was put to the a more stressful test than the vacuums in a mailing service. 

What did the Oreck owner like better about the Oreck?

In my entire life and my 40 plus years of vacuum career, I've known only two dissatisfied ORECK users.  That's HS and MOTOR.  While I don't doubt their opinions, they certainly and unequivocally do not speak for all the ORECK users I know, including myself.  That's what the 30 day free home trial is for.  To weed out the 2 ORECK users that I know in 40 plus years.

I do not know any dissatisfied Dyson owners.  My step father owns Oreck but actually admitted that it is for the weight only and does not do a very good job.  You ceertainly and unequivocally do not speak for all the Dyson users. I assure you that there are more than two dissatisfied Oreck users.  Read owner/user opinions.

Carmine D.


We have all read this over and over and over and over.  You are happy with your Oreck and I am sure that all are happy for you.  I like Dyson and was very satisfied with my DC07.   Will own another when I choose to purchase.  No need for you to repeat for the umpteenth time about how I sold mine. No need for me to repeat how you bashed Dyson and told all that Hoover was the best.  After you were proven wrong on every account you grasped Oreck.  Glad you like it.

What you say about the Oreck pretty well sums up my same experiences with Dyson. 

YOU HAVE LIED, TWISTED WORDS AND SUBJECT MATTERS, TOLD HALF TRUTHS AND DENIED ALL OF IT.  YOU RUIN EACH THREAD WITH ALL YOUR BASHING.  YOU SOUND LIKE A COMEDIAN WITH STALE JOKES.

NOW, START YOUR OWN ORECK THREAD AND I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE NO MEMBER WILL MENTION DYSON ON IT BEFORE YOU.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #192   Jul 6, 2008 9:37 pm
dusty wrote:
 Did you ever sell Oreck in your store?  Was there a reason you did or didn't?

Dusty



Hello Dusty:

I mentioned before but don't mind again.  Not new ORECK-s.  Tho, I met Dave and had the opportunity if I wanted.  Prince of a man.

Sold ORECK-s used, repaired, and sold parts.  Not a real demand for new ORECK-s at the time.  (1949-1992).  Like now, ORECK is a niche market.   I was authorized as a dealer for sales and service for HOOVER, EUREKA, WESTINGHOUSE and Panasonic.  Space was a premium for me.  I didn't have the room.

If and when a generic lightweight was wanted/needed, one of these above makes/models fit the bill nicely.  If they asked specifically for a new ORECK upright, then I referred them to dealer who was a friend.  I wanted and got nothing for the referrals.  Did the same for new GE's, Kirby-s, Luxes, and Rainbows.  Didn't carry but referred to business friends who did.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #193   Jul 8, 2008 4:31 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
My DC07 and DC14 was very to push and pull because the head did not sink into the carpet as you imply.   Never got the ratcheting noise. 

Your case (as are you ) is and odd one.

I've never had any issues with my DC07 with the head sinking into long thick carpet pile nor when I used to use a DC03 (first Dyson to have the brush control switch setup!) and DC04!  I in fact I found it easier to push on long thick pile carpet!

DC18

mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #194   Jul 8, 2008 4:38 pm
DC18, I REALLY DONT BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT, You must of used with the brush off or the belts were broken.............
DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #195   Jul 8, 2008 5:05 pm
mole wrote:
DC18, I REALLY DONT BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT, You must of used with the brush off or the belts were broken.............

Well Mole believe it I did say that.  Thats up to you if you choose to believe different.  No, all my Dysons have fully working brush bars, with fully working belts.  No the only time the brush bar goes off is on hard floors!  Brush bar is always ON on carpets.  I know a vast amount of people with Dysons that use them on different flooring and different thickness of carpets with no issue at all.

Like HARDSELL says it's just the odd person that seems to have an issue!  Some people do and some don't have any issues!   Thats like that with most products!

DC18

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #196   Jul 8, 2008 5:27 pm

Mole,

It is plausible DC18's carpet fibers are spread enough apart and/or criss cross each other allowing for additional airflow to enter the vacuums mouth, making it grip less and pull into on the carpet less.        DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #197   Jul 8, 2008 7:26 pm
So, why haven't we seen one poster here and/or any comments critical of dyson scrubbing the clutch-brush bar shut off feature lock stock and barrel.  Not a one.  In 5 years.  No one says it is missed, needed, should be used.  Not a one.  Where's the swell of outcries in support by dysoners to bring it back?  If its sooo good, wouldn't this be the normal expected reaction? 

Vacuumfreake, a self-admitted dyson junkie, says the set up in the DC14 is ridiculous.  Can't understand dyson's thinking on it.  Is he the odd user?  If so, why didn't any one call him that when he posted this several weeks back.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Well, I got my first Dyson and I'm not sure I made the right choice.  .......After cutting at least 2 pounds of hair and white stuffing off the brushroll............. there was dog hair caked all over the vacuum in the brushroll housing.  I cleaned it as well as I could... which isn't easy because of the fact that Dyson makes the vacuum so users can't remove their own belt/brushroll (very stupid if you ask me, but I'm sure they get a lot more money for service). 

The dyson clutch brush bar shut off design, form and function is most worthy of an award for the worse ever set up utilized on an upright vacuum in over 100 years in the USA.  If any other manufacturer did it, it would be the scourge of all posts here.  Just as VF called it.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 8, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #198   Jul 8, 2008 8:12 pm
Carmine, I replied to your orginal post, before you added/re-edited.        DIB

CarmineD wrote:

If the clutch shut-off and brush bar is not a problem why did dyson eliminate the feature on all models after and for the last 5 years and still? 

I do not have enough knowledge of this vacuum’s history and will not comment.

Ball feature came back!  Surely, if its sooo good then it has to be a worth while feature to employ.  A good thing.

The lighter weight Ball line is genius.  Opinions matter nil, number of sales and/or profits and satisfied users do matter much, we’ll have to wait and see.  The state of our economy will have a great influence on folks buying $400 plus Dyson’s like they did freely in our past/better economy.  Certainly like always the Dyson and only Dyson will be the most desired and talked of vacuum/s in a normally innovatively dull industry.

Dyson should have kept it.   Especially since no other vacuum on the market uses this clutch/brush bar feature.  Is this too like the dyson pre-motor filter that is sooo good it never clogs and needs cleaning [but once a year] and now needs it every month?

My suggestion…  if filter cleaning every 1, 3 or 6 months is going to send you over the edge, then don’t buy.

Vacuumfreake, a self-admitted dyson junkie, says the set up in the DC14 is ridiculous.  Can't understand dyson's thinking on it.  Is he an odd user?  

Is Vacuumfreake a Dyson junkie?  I did not get this impression.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Well, I got my first Dyson and I'm not sure I made the right choice.  .......After cutting at least 2 pounds of hair and white stuffing off the brushroll............. there was dog hair caked all over the vacuum in the brushroll housing.  I cleaned it as well as I could... which isn't easy because of the fact that Dyson makes the vacuum so users can't remove their own belt/brushroll (very stupid if you ask me, but I'm sure they get a lot more money for service). 

Carmine, you suck the fun out of our debates. - Taking his post out of context and asking us to reply is exhausting.  Did this vacuum get white stuffing, his family’s hair and his pets hair wrapped around the brushroll by simply cleaning once around his home?  How did all this stuffing and hair get there? – Please explain.        DIB

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 9, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #199   Jul 9, 2008 6:48 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Well, I got my first Dyson and I'm not sure I made the right choice.  .......After cutting at least 2 pounds of hair and white stuffing off the brushroll............. there was dog hair caked all over the vacuum in the brushroll housing.  I cleaned it as well as I could... which isn't easy because of the fact that Dyson makes the vacuum so users can't remove their own belt/brushroll (very stupid if you ask me, but I'm sure they get a lot more money for service). 

Carmine, you suck the fun out of our debates. - Taking his post out of context and asking us to reply is exhausting.  Did this vacuum get white stuffing, his family’s hair and his pets hair wrapped around the brushroll by simply cleaning once around his home?  How did all this stuffing and hair get there? – Please explain.        DIB

Carmine D.



Hey DIB Man:

VF's post is not out of context here.  It is the crux of the weakness of this dyson feature on DC07/14.  Having a yellow English lab, who sheds year around, in concert with brand new wool loop rugs, the dyson DC07 struck out big time in my home.  Why? Read on, please.

The puny dyson brush bar got dog hair and new rug wrap stuck around it after a few passes while the brush bar ratcheting noise would go on and off constantly.  [I sent pics of my dyson brush bar to Acerone back in September 2006.  As an illustration that the brush bar is flawed for USA household use].  Didn't happen with the HOOVER WT and doesn't with the ORECK.  NEVER!

How many pets are in USA households?  70 million according to the US Humane Society.  How many have the problem?   

As part of my conversations with the dyson HELPLINE over several days and weeks, it told me to use the dyson suction hose to remove the rug and hair wrap.  It said it was causing the ratcheting noise problems.  Really?  Problem is, it took me 20 minutes to cut it off, before I could vacuum it up.  Then after a few more passes, same thing all over again with the gawdawful ratcheting noise.  Ops there goes another dyson refurb.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 9, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #200   Jul 9, 2008 7:52 am
Vacuumfreeeke wrote:
Well, I got my first Dyson and I'm not sure I made the right choice.  I was selling vacuums at Snears when Dyson came to America and I was very familiar with the DC07.  Well, I bought a used DC14 from Craig's List...  I much prefer the simplicity of the DC 07, especially the way the wand and hose work.  That telescoping thing on my model is for the birds.

Anyway, I have a specific problem with mine.  The lady who owned it before me had a dog.  After cutting at least 2 pounds of her hair and white stuffing off the brushroll, I turned it on and it smelled awful!  Just line someone had vacuumed up wet dog hair.  In fact, someone had... there was dog hair caked all over the vacuum in the brushroll housing.  I cleaned it as well as I could... which isn't easy because of the fact that Dyson makes the vacuum so users can't remove their own belt/brushroll (very stupid if you ask me, but I'm sure they get a lot more money for service).  I worked around the brush roll and cleaned the cavity out.  Looks pretty good.  Then I took the filter, cyclone bin assembly, hose, wand, U-bend, and bottom plate to the bathtub for a good soak/scrub.

Does anyone have any advice on how to get the dog smell out of the rest of the vacuum... the part I can't take in the bath tub and wash?!

I don't think saving 300 dollars to buy used was worth all this trouble!

This thing sure looks weird sitting beside my Kirbys, Royals, and vintage Hoovers!


Hey DIB Man:

VF's post is not out of context here.  It is the crux of the weakness of this dyson feature on DC07/14.  Having a yellow English lab, who sheds year around, in concert with brand new wool loop rugs, the dyson DC07 struck out big time in my home.  Why? Read on, please.

The puny dyson brush bar got dog hair and new rug wrap stuck around it after a few passes while the brush bar ratcheting noise would go on and off constantly.  [I sent pics of my dyson brush bar to Acerone back in September 2006.  As an illustration that the brush bar is flawed for USA household use].  Didn't happen with the HOOVER WT and doesn't with the ORECK.  NEVER!

How many pets are in USA households?  70 million according to the US Humane Society.  How many have the problem?   

As part of my conversations with the dyson HELPLINE over several days and weeks, it told me to use the dyson suction hose to remove the rug and hair wrap.  It said it was causing the ratcheting noise problems.  Really?  Problem is, it took me 20 minutes to cut it off, before I could vacuum it up.  Then after a few more passes, same thing all over again with the gawdawful ratcheting noise.  Ops there goes another dyson refurb.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

DIB stated that he did not get the impression that VF is a Dyson junkie.  Neither did I and I doubt that anyone else did.  You stated that he was a Dyson junkie.  Please point that out to us in his post above.  Just another example of your botched lies.

We all know  that the Dyson did not work for you as it hasn't for very very few others.  I could rant about numerous brands that did not meet my expections.  No need to beat a dead horse forever.  That puny Dyson brush bar has worked for millions as evidenced by the consumer reviews on numerous sites.  We already established that you are the odd one.  There are as many who have reported problems with Oreck and Hoover.  Most have major problems with the Hoover WT.  They say it vacuums well but has the quality of junk.  I believe that the problem with your Dyson was so much hair and dirt was in your carpets from using an inferior prior to the Dyson.  BTW, it is better to have a clutch slip and not cause damage to the carpet or vac than to burn a belt or pull fringe or pile from the carpet.

Lots of homes have pets.  In my reading Dyson reviews you are the only one I recall who had a pet and wasn't elated with Dyson ability to vacuum up all the hair.  In fact this may be the # 1 thing that Dyson reviewers praise about their Dyson.

How did your Dyson become a refurb.  You told us that you gifted it.  How long is your nose now?

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #201   Jul 9, 2008 8:22 am
HARDSELL wrote:
Carmine,

That puny Dyson brush bar has worked for millions as evidenced by the consumer reviews on numerous sites.  We already established that you are the odd one.  Lots of homes have pets.  In my reading Dyson reviews you are the only one I recall who had a pet and wasn't elated with Dyson ability to vacuum up all the hair.  In fact this may be the # 1 thing that Dyson reviewers praise about their Dyson.



Well HS Man:

Why does dyson devote two pages with instructions and illustrations in it's User's Guide about cutting off the pet/human hair and rug wrap?  Why did the dyson HELPLINE say this was causing the ratcheting noise?  No. I'm not the only user with the problem.   Neither is the former owner of VF's dyson.  Ops there goes another dyson refurb!

Cut your losses on this HS man.  You lost the battle.  Dyson conceded defeat.  Scrubbed the clutch/puny brush bar shut off feature.  You dyson devotees have a war ahead to fight.  What do you tell dyson buyers, especially previous owners, or self-avowed dyson junkies like VF, why they should pay $500 plus for a new dyson and have to perform monthly filter maintenance?  Ball technology?  Good for a laugh, but makes for a HARDSELL!

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 9, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #202   Jul 9, 2008 9:07 am
CarmineD wrote:
Well HS Man:

Why does dyson devote two pages with instructions and illustrations in it's User's Guide about cutting off the pet/human hair and rug wrap?  Why did the dyson HELPLINE say this was causing the ratcheting noise?  No. I'm not the only user with the problem.   Neither is the former owner of VF's dyson.  Ops there goes another dyson refurb!

Cut your losses on this HS man.  You lost the battle.  Dyson conceded defeat.  Scrubbed the clutch/puny brush bar shut off feature.  You dyson devotees have a war ahead to fight.  What do you tell dyson buyers, especially previous owners, or self-avowed dyson junkies like VF, why they should pay $500 plus for a new dyson and have to perform monthly filter maintenance?  Ball technology?  Good for a laugh, but makes for a HARDSELL!

As usual Carmine you are bablling and spewing BS.  Scrubbing the clutch is in no way admitting defeat.  You, like me have no idea why it is not on newer models.  I did give my thoughts. The clutch is not the problem.  It is there to protect.  Why do vacs use belts when they could use a direct (gear drive)?  The belt has to slip if the brush is jammed with an object.  Do you really have to vacuum so much dog hair that it jams the brush?  If so, you need to take Ol Rover to the vet and get him a wig. Why would one pay $800 for an Oreck that clogs and requires frequent belt changes ?

Once again you are trying to divert from your LIES.  VF owns 1 Dyson out of his 25 vac collection.  He did say Hoovers (plural).  This sounds more like a Hoover junkie.  It seems that more HooverS were out of use and he bought them (refurbs).

We will fight our battles with honest and integrity against your lies and stupidity.

Carmine D.

mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #203   Jul 9, 2008 9:28 am
HARDSELL wrote:



Lets see now the customer brings back the dc07/14 because of the clutch chatter,people hate noises ,it tells them somethings wrong,Said customer is told by dyson service reps thats normal,customer feels like they been SUCKERED, I WANT MY MONEY BACK,

Dysons sick and tired of customer complaints

Heres how we rectify the situation,take the clutch and belt system out, put in a single belt [its also a timing belt] but the wrong type.

The noise goes away the customer thinks the machine is cleaning[HE,HE,HE]  Problem solved.

On to the next innovation..............

MOLE

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #204   Jul 9, 2008 2:11 pm
mole wrote:
Lets see now the customer brings back the dc07/14 because of the clutch chatter,people hate noises ,it tells them somethings wrong,Said customer is told by dyson service reps thats normal,customer feels like they been SUCKERED, I WANT MY MONEY BACK,

MOLE



Oops, there goes an ebay parade of pages and pages of dyson refurbs!

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 9, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #205   Jul 9, 2008 2:27 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Oops, there goes an ebay parade of pages and pages of dyson refurbs!

Carmine D.



Hey Carmine,

I hear a lot of refurb whiners here, but the number of refurbs on the market look to be miniscule compared to retail sold vacuums.  If and until someone takes a break from whining and demonstrates some numbers, then and only then can this so-called refurb flooding with its… “It’s ruining my business” can be taken seriously and/or debated.        DIB


Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #206   Jul 9, 2008 2:51 pm
Once again I am dumbfounded by some of the things I'm reading here.  First of all Carmine, you must be pulling that out of your Depends and your hands must be brown by now.  To clarify, the Dyson DC07/DC14 brushroll clutch assembly was NEVER "scrubbed" and is still employed on current models!!!!!  It will always remain on the DC07/14 until the models cease to exist altogether, which is not likely to happen anytime soon.  INDEPENDENT DYSON DEALERS WILL ALWAYS HAVE A MARKET FOR THE DC07/DC14!  The fact that the DC07 has been around for 6 years already is enough for anyone to know its widespread success and popularity in the US.  It IS the machine that made a name for Dyson here.  The DC14 is going to continue to be sold at big-box stores INCLUDING WAL-MART.  They are receiving the standard DC14 in yellow which will sell for $399!  And like the other DC07/14 models, it has...you guessed it, a clutch!  The clutch is an improvement on the old slip-belt that has to be replaced.  The direct motor-driven brush used on the Ball models is an improvement over that.  "Immer Besser" as you might say.  

Out of all the DC07s I've used, I was never able to get any ratcheting out of any of them.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the ratcheting problem Carmine has experienced was not due to the Mohawk carpet, but rather, the fact that perhaps the original clutch was defective and needed to be swapped.  When working "properly" the clutch digs strongly into any pile carpet (even thick Tommy...er, Mohawk) with no ratcheting noises whatsoever.  Replacing with a genuine DYSON clutch (not a bojack replacement from Hesco with the DYR prefix as Mole sells) will remedy the situation no doubt. 

For those of you who think the DC07/DC14 brushroll is the "worst there is" or a "failure", what about the Eureka Vibra-Groomer, which Dyson obviously took a page from, or even the much earlier Hoover brushroll of the 1910's?  Are those bad because of their shape?  Does the shape of the Vibra-Groomer adversely affect carpet cleaning ability and have a tendency to wrap pet hair around itself?  Probably, certainly not any worse than Dyson, however since it is NOT Dyson it isn't mentioned here.  Those brushrolls were designed to act as a secondary fan or impeller of sorts, generating air in addition to vigorously agitating the carpet.  I wouldn't call that "bad" at all.  The DC17 brushroll is more aggressive, yes, not due to its shape but rather the bristle pattern and the strength of the bristles.  Some of you seem to think that the DC07/14 brushroll is "weak" due to its shape...all I can say is ignorance is bliss. 

Dyson sells its refurbs through their independent dealers as well as catalogs, and it's the independent dealers who mostly put them on the Internet because Dyson allows their independent dealers to make money off the refurbs (unlike Oreck, Bissell, Hoover, Eureka, and Dirt Devil).  So compared the others that is actually a very honest, generous way of doing business.  Before you start to criticize the Dyson refurbs, what do you think Oreck does with all of the machines that are returned within the 30 day trial (which are most of them)?  They're sold as "demonstrator" models for $150.  What do you think Hoover does with all of the Hoovers that are returned?  They are sold as refurbished machines at Big Lots, Value City, and on the Hoover website.  What do you think Eureka does with all of the returns?  They're sold at Big Lots and Value City as refurbs!  What do you think Dirt Devil does with all of THEIR machines that are returned?  Why, they're sold at Big Lots and Value City as refurbs!  Again, no different!  Now can you see the pattern here?

Don't say that anything is "scrubbed" again unless you know for a fact that it is truly obsolete and removed from the market.  We're tired of your lies, and of you repeating them so often you believe them. 

-MH
This message was modified Jul 9, 2008 by Motorhead
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #207   Jul 9, 2008 4:18 pm
I have seen lots of brands of refurbs in Big Lots and other similar stores.  None of them were Dysons.
DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #208   Jul 9, 2008 4:43 pm
Just to add to what Motorhead said about the brush bar and clutch set up on the DC07\DC14.  If it was that terrible then why has it managed to span out over 4 models.  The DC03, DC04 and the later DC07 and DC14!  The shape of the brush bar on these models was designed for a reason which I believe was stated on the original DC03 brochure!  One thing also no one has mentioned is the non brush control Dyson models of the DC04, DC07 and DC14 is different again!  Not sure if you have these models in the US!  The DC01 had a triple brush bar design which Dyson has not used again!

Technology moved on for Dyson and they decided to use a separate motor for the brush bar.  This may be in preparation for when the DDM is fitted to the Upright range. I don't think you would want the DDM powering a brush bar via a belt due to the speed it rotates!  Thats my thinking! 

DC18

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #209   Jul 9, 2008 5:40 pm
Hello, DC18:

The DC03 and 04 are native to UK not the USA.  You and I have different thinking on the DC07 and 14.   They obviously are fine for the UK and Europe, and that's your frame of reference.  I respect that. 

Not good for the USA.  Just as the dyson DC11 appears to have done well and win praise in all places except the USA.  Pulled out after 6 months in the USA.  Big box stores and indy's couldn't sell for $499.  Many were returned due to the whimpy power head.  It skipped, stuttered, hic-cupped and stopped on most USA rugs. 

Are you seeing a pattern here in the USA with the early dyson models and their brush rolls?  It's crystal clear to me.  This is a losing battle for dyson supporters.  The brush rolls were inferior for USA rugs and carpets.  Period.  End of debate.  Move on. 

Concentrate your time and efforts by helping out your dyson compandres with a defense for the new dysons selling for $500 plus and require monthly filter maintenance.  That's today and tomorrow's dyson issue.  That's a biggie.  Especially if the dyson claim: "Never loses suction" gets shot down by the courts.  Be prepared for it to happen!  Then what? 

Wait....what's that I hear in the distance?  Is that the faint voice of DIB shouting?  Listen!  Listen carefully.  What's he saying?  Ball technology steers and pivots vacuums....is that it?  Is that all there is to $500 dysons.  B-a-l-l-s?   Better do better.  I hear the sound of sayanora to dyson playing on the steel guitar.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 9, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #210   Jul 9, 2008 6:28 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hey Carmine,

I hear a lot of refurb whiners here, but the number of refurbs on the market look to be miniscule compared to retail sold vacuums.  If and until someone takes a break from whining and demonstrates some numbers, then and only then can this so-called refurb flooding with its… “It’s ruining my business” can be taken seriously and/or debated.        DIB



You can choose to ignore it or deny it  for now but trust me this is going to kill dysons integrity.

You can mark your calendar,july 9,2008, THE MOLE TOLD YOU SO .

HOWS THE HAND VAC SELLING???????????????

MOLE

HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #211   Jul 9, 2008 6:54 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello, DC18:

The DC03 and 04 are native to UK not the USA.  You and I have different thinking on the DC07 and 14.   They obviously are fine for the UK and Europe, and that's your frame of reference.  I respect that. 

Not good for the USA.  Just as the dyson DC11 appears to have done well and win praise in all places except the USA.  Pulled out after 6 months in the USA.  Big box stores and indy's couldn't sell for $499.  Many were returned due to the whimpy power head.  It skipped, stuttered, hic-cupped and stopped on most USA rugs. 

Are you seeing a pattern here in the USA with the early dyson models and their brush rolls?  It's crystal clear to me.  This is a losing battle for dyson supporters.  The brush rolls were inferior for USA rugs and carpets.  Period.  End of debate.  Move on. 

Concentrate your time and efforts by helping out your dyson compandres with a defense for the new dysons selling for $500 plus and require monthly filter maintenance.  That's today and tomorrow's dyson issue.  That's a biggie.  Especially if the dyson claim: "Never loses suction" gets shot down by the courts.  Be prepared for it to happen!  Then what? 

Wait....what's that I hear in the distance?  Is that the faint voice of DIB shouting?  Listen!  Listen carefully.  What's he saying?  Ball technology steers and pivots vacuums....is that it?  Is that all there is to $500 dysons.  B-a-l-l-s?   Better do better.  I hear the sound of sayanora to dyson playing on the steel guitar.

Carmine D.


DC.

Remember:

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #212   Jul 10, 2008 6:39 am
Motorhead wrote:

Out of all the DC07s I've used, I was never able to get any ratcheting out of any of them.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the ratcheting problem Carmine has experienced was not due to the Mohawk carpet, but rather, the fact that perhaps the original clutch was defective and needed to be swapped.  When working "properly" the clutch digs strongly into any pile carpet (even thick Tommy...er, Mohawk) with no ratcheting noises whatsoever.  Replacing with a genuine DYSON clutch (not a bojack replacement from Hesco with the DYR prefix as Mole sells) will remedy the situation no doubt. 

For those of you who think the DC07/DC14 brushroll is the "worst there is" or a "failure", what about the Eureka Vibra-Groomer, which Dyson obviously took a page from, or even the much earlier Hoover brushroll of the 1910's?  Are those bad because of their shape?  Does the shape of the Vibra-Groomer adversely affect carpet cleaning ability and have a tendency to wrap pet hair around itself?  Probably, certainly not any worse than Dyson, however since it is NOT Dyson it isn't mentioned here.  Those brushrolls were designed to act as a secondary fan or impeller of sorts, generating air in addition to vigorously agitating the carpet.  I wouldn't call that "bad" at all.  The DC17 brushroll is more aggressive, yes, not due to its shape but rather the bristle pattern and the strength of the bristlesSome of you seem to think that the DC07/14 brushroll is "weak" due to its shape...all I can say is ignorance is bliss. 


-MH

Motorhead,

Thanks for clearing up a lot of things.

.

I did say in the past the DC07 and DC14 had the weakest brushroll (compared to the 15/17) in a thread where I was defending Dyson’s “failing out” with so-called industry standard Kapok tests.  It is a garbage test, not an ASTM standard but a bad-mouthing of Dyson’s by dealers standard.  I have no opinion of the brushroll shape or size but believe it spins slower (when pressed into carpeting) than the DC15/17.  Regardless, it looks like deceptive dealers exclusively use and believe the DC07/14 are the Dyson’s of choice when failing out a Dyson in their Kapok “tests.”.        DIB

.

Here's two...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zulOHXdDmk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXA0N0V2uOQ

This message was modified Jul 10, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #213   Jul 10, 2008 7:00 am
Hey DIB:

There are none so blind as they who will not see.  Open your eyes, look at the dyson brush rolls in the DC07, 11, and 14.  Then look at the brush rolls in other vacuums.  Compare.  It's easy to see why dyson scrubbed them.  The VDTA had a whole exhibit this year on vacuum brush rolls.  Why?  An integral component for rug cleaning.  The crux of the matter.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 10, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #214   Jul 10, 2008 7:15 am
mole wrote:
You can choose to ignore it or deny it  for now but trust me this is going to kill dysons integrity.

You can mark your calendar,july 9,2008, THE MOLE TOLD YOU SO .

HOWS THE HAND VAC SELLING???????????????

MOLE



Hey MOLE Man:

The dyson menschkins are too young [some too blind] to see what the refurbs did to Regina in the 80/90's.  Regina was a  high flyer on Wall Street and Main Steet.  Everyone had to have a Regina Housekeeper.  They were sold everywhere.  What happened?  Refurbs!  Brought Regina down lock stock and barrel.  Landed two Regina management executives in jail for awhile: The CEO and CFO.  Never to hold a management job again in their LIFETIME!

Carmine D.

 

This message was modified Jul 10, 2008 by CarmineD
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #215   Jul 10, 2008 9:50 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hey MOLE Man:

The dyson menschkins are too young [some too blind] to see what the refurbs did to Regina in the 80/90's.  Regina was a  high flyer on Wall Street and Main Steet.  Everyone had to have a Regina Housekeeper.  They were sold everywhere.  What happened?  Refurbs!  Brought Regina down lock stock and barrel.  Landed two Regina management executives in jail for awhile: The CEO and CFO.  Never to hold a management job again in their LIFETIME!

Carmine D.

 


Creative bookkeeping brought Regina down, not the refurbs.  Refurbs are part of all manufacturers business, we get monthly sheets showing what's available and the big savings offered.  The scary thing is that I know we see these sheets last, after the bulk have been sold off to liquidation stores.  I would put money on Eureka and Hoover having to deal with far more refurbs than Dyson ever will.

Dusty
Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #216   Jul 10, 2008 11:28 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:

Motorhead,

Thanks for clearing up a lot of things.

.

I did say in the past the DC07 and DC14 had the weakest brushroll (compared to the 15/17) in a thread where I was defending Dyson’s “failing out” with so-called industry standard Kapok tests.  It is a garbage test, not an ASTM standard but a bad-mouthing of Dyson’s by dealers standard.  I have no opinion of the brushroll shape or size but believe it spins slower (when pressed into carpeting) than the DC15/17.  Regardless, it looks like deceptive dealers exclusively use and believe the DC07/14 are the Dyson’s of choice when failing out a Dyson in their Kapok “tests.”.        DIB

.

Here's two...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zulOHXdDmk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXA0N0V2uOQ


DIB, absolutely, those videos are a perfect example.  In fact I'm almost certain we have discussed the DC07/14 being the "poster boy vacuums" on here previously as well, I can't remember the specific thread I know this isn't the first time that has been mentioned.  They ARE the models that dishonest, biased vac dealers LOVE to bash to sell the brands they're pushing (which I might add is so painfully obvious here).  In fact, in one video the person isn't a "dealer" at all, he just happens to work for an Oreck store (the remaining independent Oreck dealers cannot sell the XL21, and of course there's the forest green carpet characteristic of every Oreck store across the country) and is pushing Oreck.  Whether or not the Dyson is tested properly and fairly is unimportant to them.  Trying to convince potential customers that the Miele or Oreck is better, and taking advantage of the Dyson DC07/14's so-called "weak point" (a soft, slow-turning brushroll which is not necessarily a negative characteristic) IS.  Hence a wide variety of excuses are given by these biased dealers to avoid Dysons solely based on either of these two models, which (as usual) in the grand scheme of things turn out to be grossly exaggerated and inconsequential.  Like the kapok test which (theoretically...) supports the dealers' claim of "it won't deep clean well" or "it's not effective on pet hair".  Sorry to say but if you vacuum at warp speed OF COURSE the machine is not going to pick up as well as it would if you vacuum deliberately as was meant to be done.  Unless of course the vacuum used is depending on brushroll RPMs alone with not much in the way of suction or airflow, effective only for surface cleaning and to simply make the carpet appear clean, as in the first video. 

The irony here is that people are lazy.  These dealers, Oreck store employees, you name it do not want to work hard to try and prove that their machine is better.  Path of least resistance.  Hence, putting the $549 top-of-the-line Dyson (complete with aggressive high-RPM brushroll) against that particular machine is not the ideal choice.  Putting the $399 entry-level Dyson is.  To me, it would seem that 9 times out of 10, the average buyer would not ordinarily know the difference between the DC07 and DC17 until (or unless) the machine is demonstrated to them. 

-MH
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #217   Jul 10, 2008 11:36 am
Motorhead wrote:
DIB, absolutely, those videos are a perfect example.  In fact I'm almost certain we have discussed the DC07/14 being the "poster boy vacuums" on here previously as well, I can't remember the specific thread I know this isn't the first time that has been mentioned.  They ARE the models that dishonest, biased vac dealers LOVE to bash to sell the brands they're pushing (which I might add is so painfully obvious here).  In fact, in one video the person isn't a "dealer" at all, he just happens to work for an Oreck store (the remaining independent Oreck dealers cannot sell the XL21, and of course there's the forest green carpet characteristic of every Oreck store across the country) and is pushing Oreck.  Whether or not the Dyson is tested properly and fairly is unimportant to them.  Trying to convince potential customers that the Miele or Oreck is better, and taking advantage of the Dyson DC07/14's so-called "weak point" (a soft, slow-turning brushroll which is not necessarily a negative characteristic) IS.  Hence a wide variety of excuses are given by these biased dealers to avoid Dysons solely based on either of these two models, which (as usual) in the grand scheme of things turn out to be grossly exaggerated and inconsequential.  Like the kapok test which (theoretically...) supports the dealers' claim of "it won't deep clean well" or "it's not effective on pet hair".  Sorry to say but if you vacuum at warp speed OF COURSE the machine is not going to pick up as well as it would if you vacuum deliberately as was meant to be done.  Unless of course the vacuum used is depending on brushroll RPMs alone with not much in the way of suction or airflow, effective only for surface cleaning and to simply make the carpet appear clean, as in the first video. 

The irony here is that people are lazy.  These dealers, Oreck store employees, you name it do not want to work hard to try and prove that their machine is better.  Path of least resistance.  Hence, putting the $549 top-of-the-line Dyson (complete with aggressive high-RPM brushroll) against that particular machine is not the ideal choice.  Putting the $399 entry-level Dyson is.  To me, it would seem that 9 times out of 10, the average buyer would not ordinarily know the difference between the DC07 and DC17 until (or unless) the machine is demonstrated to them. 

-MH



MH,

I noticed in one of the videos tha baking soda ( a household item ) was used in the test.  Carmine has contended that there is more kapok than baking soda in homes.

Another made mention that the Oreck would ruin wood floors.  It does not have the standard Dyson brush cut off feature.  Of course you already that. 

DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #218   Jul 10, 2008 2:23 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello, DC18:

The DC03 and 04 are native to UK not the USA.  You and I have different thinking on the DC07 and 14.   They obviously are fine for the UK and Europe, and that's your frame of reference.  I respect that. 

Not good for the USA.  Just as the dyson DC11 appears to have done well and win praise in all places except the USA.  Pulled out after 6 months in the USA.  Big box stores and indy's couldn't sell for $499.  Many were returned due to the whimpy power head.  It skipped, stuttered, hic-cupped and stopped on most USA rugs. 

Are you seeing a pattern here in the USA with the early dyson models and their brush rolls?  It's crystal clear to me.  This is a losing battle for dyson supporters.  The brush rolls were inferior for USA rugs and carpets.  Period.  End of debate.  Move on. 

Concentrate your time and efforts by helping out your dyson compandres with a defense for the new dysons selling for $500 plus and require monthly filter maintenance.  That's today and tomorrow's dyson issue.  That's a biggie.  Especially if the dyson claim: "Never loses suction" gets shot down by the courts.  Be prepared for it to happen!  Then what? 

Wait....what's that I hear in the distance?  Is that the faint voice of DIB shouting?  Listen!  Listen carefully.  What's he saying?  Ball technology steers and pivots vacuums....is that it?  Is that all there is to $500 dysons.  B-a-l-l-s?   Better do better.  I hear the sound of sayanora to dyson playing on the steel guitar.

Carmine D.


Hello Carmine D

Thanks for your comments.  I know the DC03 and DC04 are native to the UK, what I was getting at is that the same brush bar design used on these is the smae used on the DC07 and DC14!  I was only adding to Motorhead comments.  I have moved on but someone keeps bringing the brush bar up at every opportunity!  Hence others to post comments again!

I can't comment on prices over in the USA but as I've commented on this forum about the new Dysons epecially the DC24 and DC25 the pricing of these are very competitive when you look at the prices of previous Dyson Models that have exceed the £300.00 mark.  The DC24 is selling (RRP) at £239.99 but I've seen it as little as £204.00.  The £239.99 price is the same as a new DC14 (non brush control) model!  As for the DC25 that is selling at (RRP) at £279.99 (Animal about £299.99!) baring in mind the base DC15 model was over £300.00 when it was launched.  Both models come with HEPA which previous Dyson didn't unless you had the Allergy or Animal models (UK).  So as far as I'm concerned I don't think the pricing of these 2 new models in the UK is way out. 

As for the filter cleaning being every month (DC24) and every 3 months (DC25), like some have said to high light to users they need to check the filters.  Plus you now have access to checking and washing the post motor filter which you didn't have to do before, it was permanant but could be replaced if needed!   Or like the DC01 post motor HEPA you replaced every year or so.  With it being a washable HEPA may be it needs checking more hence the change in filter cleaning!?  Who knows only Dyson can tell you the real answer to why they have changed this! Surely!?  Didn't Dusty say they have been using the DC24 in his shop and the filter was ok after a month!  Depends on use I suppose!

I could ask why most bagged vacuums now use a paper bag you can only use once, unlike paperbags in th past that had a removable clip to empty and if ok to re-use it again!  May be has something partly to do with the dust and fine dust blocking and clogging the pores in the filter paper!  Restricting airflow!  But may be it 's down to partly convience on the users part which is a world we live in today!

DC18

M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #219   Jul 10, 2008 2:44 pm
DC18 wrote:
I could ask why most bagged vacuums now use a paper bag you can only use once, unlike paperbags in th past that had a removable clip to empty and if ok to re-use it again!  May be has something partly to do with the dust and fine dust blocking and clogging the pores in the filter paper!  Restricting airflow!  But may be it 's down to partly convience on the users part which is a world we live in today!

DC18


My Grandad was so outraged at the relative high cost for replacement vac bags, that he used to 'empty' them through the inlet hole (or whatever you'd call it). It was a tedious job and of course, it would have had little benefit becuase the pores would still be clogged on reuse. In later years, he had a DC04 :-)
DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #220   Jul 10, 2008 3:12 pm
M00seUK wrote:
My Grandad was so outraged at the relative high cost for replacement vac bags, that he used to 'empty' them through the inlet hole (or whatever you'd call it). It was a tedious job and of course, it would have had little benefit becuase the pores would still be clogged on reuse. In later years, he had a DC04 :-)

I know people that empty their bagged vacuum bags through the inlet hole as to re-use the bag again!
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #221   Jul 10, 2008 3:19 pm
I know of customers that threw out their dyson filters trying to make it work better.

Guess what it worked....................


MOLE
M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #222   Jul 10, 2008 3:52 pm
mole wrote:
I know of customers that threw out their dyson filters trying to make it work better.

Guess what it worked....................


MOLE

Generally speaking, you can run a Dyson without a filter and it will be fine, as long as you're careful to not overfill the clear bin or suck up too much fine dust in one go. Of course people do this and run them without filters also.. which is why the latest models have a catch which prevents you doing this.
Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #223   Jul 10, 2008 4:15 pm
mole wrote:
I know of customers that threw out their dyson filters trying to make it work better.

Guess what it worked....................


MOLE

In fact the first Dyson was not designed to have much in the way of after filters, it was only on later models that this was incorporated.  Moose hit the nail right on the head about running Dysons without filters.  It is true about the cyclones being able to filter out most of the particles.  Definitely not as bad as some clean-air paper bag designs that end up leaking dust through the motor. 

Can't do that with a bagged machine of course.  We all know what happens when a clean-air vacuum is run without a bag.  Either massive amounts of dirt through the motor (causing off-balance fans or worse) or the bag compartment filter literally packed with dirt.  Spewing dust each time.  Much like what happens when you try to run a bin filter bagless without *that* filter...

-MH
This message was modified Jul 10, 2008 by Motorhead
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #224   Jul 10, 2008 4:17 pm
dusty wrote:
Creative bookkeeping brought Regina down, not the refurbs. 
Dusty


Hey Dust Man:

Creative bookkeeping for the refurbs to be exact!  Double counted as new sales without the corresponding increase in cost of goods sold to manufacture.  Double the profit from sales with half the expenses to produce, market and sell. 

As a result the US federal government passed a law that all refurbed vacuums have to clearly advertise on the carton that they are refurbs/remanufactured and/or similar language.  

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 10, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #225   Jul 10, 2008 4:31 pm
Hey guys:

HOOVER used a reusable bag with a bag clamp in the 50's on several uprights: Models 60, 61 and 62.  Not HOOVER's finest hour.  Customers didn't like them because they were very expensive.  Messy too.  HOOVER converted back to the throwaway bag with the 63, 64, 65 and on. 

Customers frequently asked me to convert the reusable bag to the throw away bag. 

If you are picking up alot of fuzz and nap from a new carpet, reusing the paper bag once is not a problem.  And not messy.  If you are picking up the everyday household grit and dirt, reusing a throwaway paper is messy and harmful to the motor.  Not allowing enough air to filter out to keep the motor cool.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 10, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #226   Jul 10, 2008 4:45 pm
mole wrote:
Lets see now the customer brings back the dc07/14 because of the clutch chatter,people hate noises ,it tells them somethings wrong,Said customer is told by dyson service reps thats normal,customer feels like they been SUCKERED, I WANT MY MONEY BACK,

Dysons sick and tired of customer complaints

Heres how we rectify the situation,take the clutch and belt system out, put in a single belt [its also a timing belt] but the wrong type.

The noise goes away the customer thinks the machine is cleaning[HE,HE,HE]  Problem solved.

On to the next innovation..............

MOLE



Hello MOLE Man:

Beats the workaround for the users to wear wax ear plugs!

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 10, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #227   Jul 11, 2008 6:38 am
M00seUK wrote:
My Grandad was so outraged at the relative high cost for replacement vac bags, that he used to 'empty' them through the inlet hole (or whatever you'd call it). It was a tedious job and of course, it would have had little benefit becuase the pores would still be clogged on reuse. In later years, he had a DC04 :-)



M00seUK Man:

God bless him. 

The technical industry term is "bag opening."  Vacuum pros are sticklers for vacuum terms. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 11, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #228   Jul 17, 2008 5:09 pm

It seems the UK’s ASA is more and more anti-Dyson.  The ASA ; is it now run by bias men, good men, genius’s or drunks?  You decide…

        DIB

        DIB

.

ASA said...
The ASA took expert advice. The expert said the independent test data supplied by Electrolux was reliable and of good quality.

 .

The expert believed the suction power test data submitted by Electrolux was not sufficient to support the claim that the Intensity gave an "intense deep clean", because it did not include test data relating to cleaning performance.
-----------------------------

.

ASA said...

The expert pointed out…  …a reduction in cleaning performance did not necessarily result from a reduction in suction power due to bag 'clogging'

.

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_44647.htm

ASA ruled in 2003 on bag clogging -  http://archive.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/2003/1/17/166948.html

This message was modified Jul 17, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #229   Jul 18, 2008 7:01 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:

It seems the UK’s ASA is more and more anti-Dyson.  The ASA ; is it now run by bias men, good men, genius’s or drunks?  You decide…

        DIB

        DIB

        DIB

       .


Hello DIB:

Thanks for posting.  Very interesting ruling.  First, an observation on your post above:  You impugn the ASA and the expert vacuum industry witness with the same names as you do for those who have said the same here in the past [anti-dyson].  Facts and truth are anti-falsehoods. Not anti-[supply your own favorite name brand].  Where one stands depends on where he/she sits!

I fully concur with the ASA ruling.  If I can summarize the major findings: The ASA upheld Electrolux'es claim that the suction of the Intensity is 50 percent greater than a dyson DC14 [when the Electrolux bag needs changing].  But...and this is the biggie...Electrolux'es conclusion that it deep cleans better [as a result of the suction] was overruled by the ASA.  Why?  Electrolux did not provide sufficient data to prove the conclusion.

Of note:  Electrolux is the company that makes the EUREKA Boss Smart vacuum [bagged] which makes the claim that it outcleans a dyson DC07 by 60 percent.  Also the same company that claims it produces the first recycled vacuum. 

Also of note: The ASA did not concur with the validity of the claim that dyson is the leading upright in the UK [dyson claimed it is a reference to dyson and hence the reason for the complaint].  Instead the ASA said it did not collect and review current UK vacuum sales data to verify the claim.  Recall dyson had only 28 percent of the UK vacuum market in 2007.  ASA implies that another vacuum brand may be the leader, not dyson.

ASA held Electrolux to a high standard for its claims: Cleans deeper and more intensely [than presumably a dyson to which it is compared].  ASA wanted proof to substantiate the claims!  No longer giving a pass as just sales puffing. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 18, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #230   Jul 19, 2008 7:37 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:

It seems the UK’s ASA is more and more anti-Dyson.  The ASA ; is it now run by bias men, good men, genius’s or drunks?  You decide…

        DIB

        DIB

        DIB

        DIB

       .


CarmineD wrote:

Hello DIB:

Thanks for posting.  Very interesting ruling.  First, an observation on your post above:  You impugn the ASA and the expert vacuum industry witness with the same names as you do for those who have said the same here in the past [anti-dyson].  Facts and truth are anti-falsehoods. Not anti-[supply your own favorite name brand].  Where one stands depends on where he/she sits!

Carmine D.

Carmine,

I would recommend you go back and re-edit your post for truthfulness and accuracy.  I have suggested and/or said in past posts that others here were bias, anti-Dyson, but never drunks. - A forum search will prove I have never said this as you say.        DIB 


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #231   Jul 19, 2008 7:48 am
Hello DIB:

Hit a nerve, did I?  They say the truth hurts.  See why? 

No need for me to edit/change/word smith.  I specifically quoted the name you most often use to impugn posters here in brackets in my original post [anti-dyson].   And for your benefit I elaborated further on the notion that truth and facts are NOT anti-any particular name brand save errors and falsehoods.  Surely, you have the maturity, wisdom and wherewithal to accept and comprehend the veracity my statements.  

There is an old school saying:  If the shoe fits, wear it!!  This shoe fits you like a glove.  

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 19, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #232   Jul 20, 2008 7:01 pm

Carmine,

If I need a lesson in truth taught by condescending maligners, you’re the man.  If I need a lesson on bad-mouthing and lying of the good - again, you're the man.  You will have to excuse me, but I will be sidestepping your freak show.        DIB

This message was modified Jul 20, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #233   Jul 20, 2008 7:20 pm
I will second the fact that neither DIB, myself, nor anyone else has referred to others on here who may possibly have differing opinions as a drunk, or cast off a particular person's rantings as a "mad drunk rant" (and I've certainly experienced those). 

Anti-Dyson on the other hand?  Yes, yes, and YES, and for no clear reason.  The Dyson bashing I've seen here does not consist of truth and facts.  Once again, making something up once and repeating it so often you believe it is not a fact.

-MH
This message was modified Jul 20, 2008 by Motorhead
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #234   Jul 20, 2008 8:53 pm
Hello anti-ASA posters:

This is not about me.  I didn't post the ASA ruling and couch with a question that has a pre-conceived notion.  And ask for readers' comments in support of that notion.  I responded and said sorry guy.  I agree with the ASA.  Nothing new here.  I have been saying the same since 2002 about dysons.  Nothing new too is the response to the ASA ruling by DIB.  [MOTOR must be feeling the guilt twinges].   The infamous anti-dyson label. 

The above facts are self-evident to any one with a grade school IQ/education.  But, make no mistake about it DIB and MOTOR.  If you want to go toe to toe on this with me, rather than cut your losses, then take your best shots.  I'll thrust and parry with you both.  No problem.  This time I got the ASA in my corner. 

But you watch and see how quickly Mike W. locks this thread.  Blame whoever you want for it's demise, but the bottom line will be the end for this dyson thread.  I can live very well with that end.  Can you?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 20, 2008 by CarmineD
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #235   Jul 20, 2008 9:12 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello anti-ASA posters:

This is not about me.  I didn't post the ASA ruling and couch with a question that has a pre-conceived notion.  And ask for readers' comments in support of that notion.  I responded and said sorry guy.  I agree with the ASA


You also said that DIB had called forum members drunks and as I read it that is the sole issue to which he asked you retract from.  Your's or anyone elses opinion on the ASA is not in question.

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #236   Jul 20, 2008 9:18 pm
dusty wrote:
You also said that DIB had called forum members drunks and as I read it that is the sole issue to which he asked you retract from.  Your's or anyone elses opinion on the ASA is not in question.

Dusty


Dusty:

I said [read it] DIB resorted to the same tact with the ASA [name calling] as he uses for all posters who say the same as the ASA [anti-dyson]. 

Calling the ASA [and the expert industry witness] anti-dyson is malicious and imputes evil motives.  Is that what DIB is saying about the ASA?  The ASA is malicious and has evil motives?  That sounds to me like DIB is calling the ASA's ruling and opinions into question.  He's saying they are not based on truth and facts but prejudice.  Come on Mr. Word Smither.  This is a grade school level lesson!

Not the same as calling the ASA drunks, which BTW DIB never did.  He asked readers whether they are or not?  As one would say to another:  What are you drunk?  Readers can laugh at this comment, even I suspect the ASA.  Because it's used for hyperbole: To make light of something and be funny! 

DIB emphatically calls the ASA anti-dyson.  That is no laughing matter.   It's not funny.  It's a demeaning and libelous label.  And a basis for the ASA, in its role as a neutral industry arbitrator, to consider legal action. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 20, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #237   Jul 21, 2008 4:50 pm

Hi Dusty and Motorhead,

Thanks for the support.  Like I proved Carmine wrong when he was maligning Mr. Dyson and claiming he stole and/or strong armed a small time inventor when this inventor posted here that he was infringed on over the DC15.  I do not remember seeing Carmine reverse his stance or signal any sort of regret of this false stance and malign (he brought zero proof, and only mud slinging).  Enough of Carmine, I have been watching the ASA for some time and their involvement in the Hoover U.S. v. Dyson counter suit.  I have on file a Bloomberg news report on this lawsuit and have been putting all the pieces and timeline together of how Hoover’s $627,600,000 claimed damages against James in a false advertising lawsuit.  Some here say Hoover was not hurt by James but Hoover believed it was.  The ASA had a huge role in ending Dyson’s “No Clogging” claim here and in the UK and maybe eleswhere too (at least for now) and bringing this lawsuit to a settlement.  It is big business and it’s ugly.  The ASA may or may not be able to tweak their adjudications much, but they can certainly delay the release of a ruling which can help Hoover U.S./UK and hurt Mr. Dyson big time.      DIB

 

P.S.  Carmine, there is no need to re-interpret my posts, my linked documents or news stories.  We are all grown ups here and need not have your personel translation, tweaks and spins on said docs, reports and posts.  Due your own homework, and quit sponging off of and spinning mine.

This message was modified Jul 22, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #238   Jul 21, 2008 5:36 pm

The current ASA ruling is clearly and cogently based on the facts and evidence presented in the case [read: the truth].  It is in no way, shape, or form anti-dyson, as claimed, IMHO.  I've stated my reasons above. 

Furthermore, as I said, if the ASA is anti-anything, as is claimed, it is anti-false and misleading advertising claims by product makers.  This is it's stated and approved authority and mission.  All the aggrieved parties whether complaintants and/or defendants, agree in advance to accept the ASA decisions as the final rule making authority.  They do so knowing that there is no further recourse for appeal after the ASA.   This presupposes that all the parties have the maturity, wisdom, and wherewithal to accept and comply with the ASA rulings [without resorting to name calling before/after]. 

Carmine D's Law:  Where one stands, oftentimes depends on where he/she sits.  The proof is self-evident.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 21, 2008 by CarmineD
M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #239   Aug 24, 2008 6:45 am
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/money/2008/08/24/sv_jamesdyson.xml

Good article in this newspaper today, on James Dyson.

By the way, in the TV news pictures, at the top of this thread - notice that you can see one of his son's 'MotorLights' in the background?

This message was modified Aug 24, 2008 by M00seUK
M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #240   Sep 27, 2008 11:25 am
Jake Dyson looks to be positioning himself as heir to his father’s legacy. He’s added a wall-mounted Motorlight to compliment the free-standing version and is busy working on a third version.

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=453&storycode=3123560&c=2

http://www.jakedyson.com/

Will Dyson (Senior) one day launch a coffee machine? Interesting patent filing here, which describes a method to simplify the internal working of such a machine, so that two ingredient hoppers can be operated by a single motor :-

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB2447678&F=0

in turn, would there be any value in having coffee beans grounded by a Dyson Digital Motor at 100,000 rpm? Maybe!
There's no obvious reference to floor / laundry care in the description, but perhaps it could be applied.

The Dyson AirBlade web site has had a recent overhaul including a great video with John Churchill, who is credited with having the initial idea for the product.

http://www.dysonairblade.co.uk/

M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #241   Oct 5, 2008 10:41 am
Interview with James Dyson, insights to the latest version of the dyson digital motor and it's potential.

Sir James Dyson the inventor keeps on motoring
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/3135921/Sir-James-Dyson-the-inventor-keeps-on-motoring.html

DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #242   Oct 5, 2008 3:28 pm
Thanks M00seUK for posting that link on Dyson.  I wonder if this new even smaller faster Dyson Digital Motor will make a mass launch into Dyson Vacuums going forward.  The artical hints on that don't you think!

DC18

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #243   Oct 5, 2008 5:17 pm
Out of sheer curiousity, does anyone have any sales/performance data to post/report on the dyson DM cann in Japan?  The dyson DM cann has been exclusively in that market now for over a year.  That's enough time for a dyson newsy to post/report about the success of its latest vacuum technology. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 5, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #244   Oct 5, 2008 5:58 pm
Moose,

I must thank you for digging into the patent office.  The uplight is more art than having mass appeal.  And a limited run is part of selling this light.  This fellow has a ceiling fan patent too, you probably have seen it.

This new Airblade website should of been in place on day 1 of the Airblades launch.  IMO, this is better than the Oreck site I recently praised and its uses of video makes it the best of all Dyson’s sites thus far (IMO).

Thanks for the article too.        DIB


DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #245   Oct 5, 2008 6:24 pm
Dyson Digital Motors in future vacuums...

I believe getting the Dyson vacuum/s into the top 1, 2, or 3 rankings at Consumer Reports is much more important than bringing even more expensive Dyson Digital Motored vacuum/s to America.  Like it or not CR has millions of folks who trust it and huge national television shows (with millions of viewers) also interview CR on vacuum cleaners, Dyson is often mentioned as not getting top or near top rankings.  NOT GOOD!        DIB


Venson


Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #246   Oct 5, 2008 10:49 pm
Hi DIB,

A good vacuum cleaner is a good vacuum cleaner thus a vacuum not rated as number one by CR does not rule out its being a viable choice for purchase.  Even better, what CR has begun to do is let in fresh air by allowing the input of readers whether their yea or nay proves agrees with a CR rating or not. 

I checked CR's reader reviews re the DC21 and with a vote window of one to five stars, ten owners of this Dyson canister appeared pleased.  Out of up to five stars, users ratings averaged to an overall score of four.  Even though some deemed its power cord too short, thought it a tad noisy and a little heavier than they'd like they still like the cleaner a great deal.  Those issues raised by actual owners makes it understandable the Dyson did not get higher marks.

Dyson uprights, got points off for noise and cetain models that did not have a manual pile height adjustment also ranked as at least "good."

Though I can't understand why a vacuum manufactured by an "icon," and that costs $500, has a short power cord  and needs to be quieter, I give way as they are selling. But I understand that.  No vacuum satisfies everyone or anyone down to the nth degree but if you like you like it.  I have not bought a Dyson -- and won't be buying one -- but I have in past bought vacuums that did not get CRs highest scores and felt pleased with the purchase nonetheless. 

Scoring "good" is often good enough. for people who don't don't necessarily worry over how a vacuum works as long as it does the work they bought it for.

Best,

Venson

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #247   Oct 6, 2008 8:46 am
Hi Venson:

Does it say if the 10 DC21 reviews are done by dyson engineers/workers?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 6, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #248   Oct 6, 2008 9:14 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Dyson Digital Motors in future vacuums...

I believe getting the Dyson vacuum/s into the top 1, 2, or 3 rankings at Consumer Reports is much more important than bringing even more expensive Dyson Digital Motored vacuum/s to America.  Like it or not CR has millions of folks who trust it and huge national television shows (with millions of viewers) also interview CR on vacuum cleaners, Dyson is often mentioned as not getting top or near top rankings.  NOT GOOD!        DIB


D.I.B

A digital motor is not going to help DYSON'S consumer reports ratings, The motor is a very small factor in the way a vacuum cleaner picks up dirt.

B.T.W cyclones and location of cyclones and if it uses 1 or 200 DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING.

Dysons is ranked right where it should be and are lucky thats where they are...........Im sorry i cant sugarcoat this opinion.........

ITs the way the whole system works.....

MOLE

Venson


Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #249   Oct 6, 2008 12:02 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hi Venson:

Does it say if the 10 DC21 reviews are done by dyson engineers/workers?

Carmine D.



Hiya Carmine,

The reviews appear legit.  Matter fact one out the ten isa highly unfavorable.  However the remainder speak well of the DC21 save for mention, far more than once, I stated before. It took a little doing but I'm sending you a PDF re the DC21 comments.

Best,

Venson

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #250   Oct 6, 2008 1:33 pm
mole wrote:
D.I.B

A digital motor is not going to help DYSON'S consumer reports ratings, The motor is a very small factor in the way a vacuum cleaner picks up dirt.

B.T.W cyclones and location of cyclones and if it uses 1 or 200 DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING.

Dysons is ranked right where it should be and are lucky thats where they are...........Im sorry i cant sugarcoat this opinion.........

ITs the way the whole system works.....

MOLE


Mole,

Dyson has said the DDM increases airflow by as much as 1/3rd, this increase will help with filtration tremendously.  If Dyson were to 86 the floating nozzle and install a brushroll with full rows of tuffs, he would indeed rise considerably in CR’s rankings.

The distributing of dust ladened air into multiple tapered cyclones is science.  All the major players are copying Dyson’s lead in this type of science.        DIB
This message was modified Oct 6, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #251   Oct 6, 2008 4:41 pm
Venson wrote:
Hiya Carmine,

The reviews appear legit.  Matter fact one out the ten isa highly unfavorable.  However the remainder speak well of the DC21 save for mention, far more than once, I stated before. It took a little doing but I'm sending you a PDF re the DC21 comments.

Best,

Venson


Thank you Venson.  I got them earlier today.  I'll read and cogitate on them.

Carmine D.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #252   Oct 7, 2008 2:05 pm
Venson wrote:
Hiya Carmine,

The reviews appear legit.  Matter fact one out the ten isa highly unfavorable.  However the remainder speak well of the DC21 save for mention, far more than once, I stated before. It took a little doing but I'm sending you a PDF re the DC21 comments.

Best,

Venson


Hi Venson:

Thanks for taking the time and effort to send these CR reviews to me in a PDF format.  I read through them and found them very sincere and informative.

If I recall, the longest ownership, and therefore usage, by the 10 users is 6 months with several saying only a month or two.  Most of the 10 did not say the period of ownership and usage.  I would like to know that information when I read a customer's vacuum review.  I would be interested to hear from owners/users after say a year: i.e when the honeymoon period is over.  Hence, my reason in part for asking about the performance of the latest dyson motor technology: The digital motor. 

Just to add to what you already said about the reviews:  One user wished the power head came with a light [no relation to me].  Another user wished the head had a rug height adjustment [again, no relation to me].  And still another user said the dyson DC21 was pet friendly, having a yellow lab who gradually adjusted nicely to the dyson cann [no relation to me and/or my yellow lab].  Since I have harped or carped [as MOLE would say] about these features for dysons and other vacuums, I found them interesting coming from others.

Thanks my friend.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 7, 2008 by CarmineD
Motorhead


Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #253   Oct 7, 2008 4:09 pm
Not to get off-topic from the current discussion (but getting back into the original theme of the thread), I hear that in April 2009 the DDM canister (DC22 perhaps?) will finally be released to the US market.  This Christmas we're getting the DC16 KnuckleDuster corded handheld.
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #254   Oct 10, 2008 12:00 am
Thanks Motorhead.  Lets hope the DC22 has a good wand assembly...  no more DC21 like wand and all it’s limitations and heavy weight.  With Dyson-like cyclonic's becoming a commodity and not a Dyson [only] exclusive, I believe these "cyclonic commodities" will be judge on all the value trades [as always] but maintence too [how often or how much of a hastle pre-filter cleaning is].  For me and in my opinion the DC22 is worthless as a breakthru product if it cannot go for 1 year minimum until pre-filer maintence is required.  It is a cyclonic race and Dyson the leader of 20 years should have an explosive clear cut filtering winner!

A corded DC16 or alike is needed if the price point is not insanely high.  The Knuckleduster to some [maybe many?] is slang for “Brass Knuckles”.  I like the name when I first heard of it [Moose posted the Trademark reg], but is it worth it?  I am no marketing guy, so I ask...  Having KuckleDuster sounding close to a DustBuster 1) Is this the fast track to getting Knucklebuster int to minds of consumers or 2) some other reason/s or 3) bad idea/bad idea to some?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuckle-duster

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=knuckle-duster&ni=21&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&fr2=tab-web&xargs=0&pstart=1&b=1


Dyson now has his vacuums in China.  http://www.english.dyson.cn/

DIB
This message was modified Oct 10, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #255   Oct 10, 2008 8:45 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:



None of these Web Sites/links are working.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 10, 2008 by CarmineD
M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #256   Oct 10, 2008 8:54 am
CarmineD wrote:
None of these Web Sites/links are working.

Carmine D.


It looks like DIB has the same issues I have when posting links here. If you use the Firefox browser, it doesn't work correctly on this forum. It really discourages me from contributing.
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #257   Oct 10, 2008 9:08 am
Sorry to hear that M00seUK.

Use the C.P.A.  way..................................

Cut, paste and assemble!

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #258   Oct 10, 2008 10:10 am
Moose,
I just got a new Mac and Safari will NOT even allow me any editing tools to post here.  I too use Firefox to post here and obviously it is flawed.  With Apple now having 10% or the laptop market share and growing, lets hope the webmaster can come up with a solution.  I will be experimenting to find an easy [enough] work around.  I re-edited my original post below too...  Update...  I give up!  Firefox works somewhat (although I have not tried all the posting features) and Safari posts worse than Netscape v.1  :)

Moose, have you seen the disgusting way Dyson has been mistreated by a few "in big unelected chairs" with his school.  All government funding has been pulled and given to the Dragon's something (inventor t.v. show) Peter (something).  You'll never see James degrade people like this Peter character.

http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/news/wasted-opportunity/article-388558-detail/article.html 

Thanks Motorhead.  Lets hope the DC22 has a good wand assembly...  no more DC21 like wand and all it’s limitations and heavy weight.  With Dyson-like cyclonic's becoming a commodity and no longer a Dyson [only] exclusive, I believe these "cyclonic commodities" will be judge on all the value trades [as always] but maintenance too [how often or how much of a hassle pre-filter cleaning is].  For me and in my opinion the DC22 is worthless as a break-thru product if it cannot go for 1 year [minimum] until pre-filer maintenance is required.  This is something Dyson touted in Japan and certainly can advertise here too, although it could/will make his DC24/25 cleaning schedules look bad.  It is a cyclonic race and Dyson the leader of 20 years should have an explosive clear cut filtering winner!

A corded DC16 or alike is needed if the price point is not insanely high.  The Knuckleduster to some [maybe many?] is slang for “Brass Knuckles”.  I like the name when I first heard of it [Moose posted the Trademark reg], but is it worth it?  I am no marketing guy, so I ask...  Having KuckleDuster sounding close to a DustBuster 1) Is this the fast track to getting Knucklebuster in to minds of consumers or 2) some other reason/s or 3) bad idea/bad idea to some?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuckle-duster

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=knuckle-duster&ni=21&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&fr2=tab-web&xargs=0&pstart=1&b=1
This message was modified Oct 10, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #259   Oct 23, 2008 1:05 pm
Carmine,

You do the rope-a-dope when you're put on the spot. I have never backed down from yours or Moles baiting. I like a challenge. Sometimes I have to think for a while before answering the “bait”. But I do answer. And sometimes I do not have the free time to answer the many statements, but I try to “go after” the most pertinent or something I have an answer to. Hey, you never answered my CR question of... Is Consumer Reports (w/ vacuum testing) Science, Laughable or both?  DIB

Hello DIB:

I've answered this particular question before on several vacuum Forums including this one.  Consumer Reports is one source and a very good starting place for persons shopping for a vacuum who have little/no knowledge of vacuums.  But, as always with CR and the information provided, consumers should verify and confirm the CR information with the vacuum cleaner industry experts and professionals: The independent vacuum cleaner store owners/operators.  CR is not the gospel for vacuums.  Industry professionals are the best source of definitive vacuum information.  That is my answer to this/your question.   If you have any insights to offer on your question, please do.  If so/not............................

Several question[s] for you [any others] to consider and answer, if you can/please.  My recent discussions with alot of big box store staffers WRT new dyson sales is that dyson sales are way way down.  

  1. WRT dyson sales in the USA, are they up/down/same?
  2. What do you think are the reasons for all the new dyson sales declines that bb store staffers report to me?
  3. WRT future dyson sales here and abroad, will they get better/worse/stay the same?  And, why?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 23, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #260   Oct 23, 2008 9:11 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

You do the rope-a-dope when you're put on the spot. I have never backed down from yours or Moles baiting. I like a challenge. Sometimes I have to think for a while before answering the “bait”. But I do answer. And sometimes I do not have the free time to answer the many statements, but I try to “go after” the most pertinent or something I have an answer to. Hey, you never answered my CR question of... Is Consumer Reports (w/ vacuum testing) Science, Laughable or both?  DIB

Hello DIB:

I've answered this particular question before on several vacuum Forums including this one.  Consumer Reports is one source and a very good starting place for persons shopping for a vacuum who have little/no knowledge of vacuums.  But, as always with CR and the information provided, consumers should verify and confirm the CR information with the vacuum cleaner industry experts and professionals: The independent vacuum cleaner store owners/operators.  CR is not the gospel for vacuums.  Industry professionals are the best source of definitive vacuum information.  That is my answer to this/your question.   If you have any insights to offer on your question, please do.  If so/not............................

Several question[s] for you [any others] to consider and answer, if you can/please.  My recent discussions with alot of big box store staffers WRT new dyson sales is that dyson sales are way way down.  

  1. WRT dyson sales in the USA, are they up/down/same?
  2. What do you think are the reasons for all the new dyson sales declines that bb store staffers report to me?
  3. WRT future dyson sales here and abroad, will they get better/worse/stay the same?  And, why?

Carmine D.



I woild not count Dyson out based on a Best Buy report is LV.  They are still going at retail in TN.
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #261   Oct 24, 2008 6:58 am
Hello HS:

Not just the BEST BUY stores in NLV but across the country, as well as other big box retailers report dyson sales are off big time.  Regardless of discounts, promos, models, dyson sales are way down.  The ball models are the worse sellers.  Few if any retailers like the dyson ball models and they say most customers don't.

Remember BEST BUY has a vested interest in dyson sales because it's management persuaded and convinced dyson to launch its vacuums in BEST BUY stores in 2002.   Dyson was reluctant and wanted to wait, but followed their advice.  So James and dyson take BEST BUY words and results to heart.  The BEST BUY store in Woodbridge VA [actually Dale City] sold the most dysons of any BEST BUY store on the east coast.  Use to be one of Matt mmc/Airblade's accounts.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 24, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #262   Oct 25, 2008 7:02 am
HARDSELL wrote:
I woild not count Dyson out based on a Best Buy report is LV.  



Hello HS:

It was BEST BUY stores/management that forcibly convinced dyson to lower the MSRP on the DC15 ball.  Intro'ed in the spring of 2005 for $599, the ball sold notta at BEST BUY stores.  I reported that dyson would lower the price by at least $50 on the DC15 by October.  Most disagreed.  Venson heard the same and was also convinced, just from scoping out the ball, that the price had to come down else retailers would be eating them with their Thanksgiving turkey.  By September dyson lowered the MSRP on the ball by $100.  Even with the lower price, sales of the DC15 ball were dyson's worse in BB stores.  BB stores discounted the model [you'll recall DIB got one for $300] and scrubbed from the shelves permanently.  As did several other retailers.

DC24/25 are futile dyson attempts, almost 3 years after the DC15, to redesign/engineer the failed concept [ball steering/manuverabilty] into a product success.  I'm told DC18 sales are better than the new higher priced dyson ball models.  In fact, the DC18 has the end cap premier space at the BB store in NLV while the DC24/25 are relogated to the back isle.  Ironically the DC18  uses an elongated wheel very similar to the GE in the 1960's [which struck out] not a ball wheel like the newer dysons.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 25, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #263   Oct 25, 2008 4:33 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

You do the rope-a-dope when you're put on the spot. I have never backed down from yours or Moles baiting. I like a challenge. Sometimes I have to think for a while before answering the “bait”. But I do answer. And sometimes I do not have the free time to answer the many statements, but I try to “go after” the most pertinent or something I have an answer to. Hey, you never answered my CR question of... Is Consumer Reports (w/ vacuum testing) Science, Laughable or both?  DIB

Hello DIB:

I've answered this particular question before on several vacuum Forums including this one.  Consumer Reports is one source and a very good starting place for persons shopping for a vacuum who have little/no knowledge of vacuums.  But, as always with CR and the information provided, consumers should verify and confirm the CR information with the vacuum cleaner industry experts and professionals: The independent vacuum cleaner store owners/operators.  CR is not the gospel for vacuums.  Industry professionals are the best source of definitive vacuum information.  That is my answer to this/your question.   If you have any insights to offer on your question, please do.  If so/not............................

Several question[s] for you [any others] to consider and answer, if you can/please.  My recent discussions with alot of big box store staffers WRT new dyson sales is that dyson sales are way way down.  

  1. WRT dyson sales in the USA, are they up/down/same?
  2. What do you think are the reasons for all the new dyson sales declines that bb store staffers report to me?
  3. WRT future dyson sales here and abroad, will they get better/worse/stay the same?  And, why?

Carmine D.


Carmine,

Well lets hope you think twice before putting blind faith in and quoting the various CR’s dishonest and/or laughable claims (the Dyson shroud clogs as per you siting CR)

Telling a potential vacuum buyer to walk into a *bias environment and ask for a non-bias opinion is not an option.  Call it crazy, but how about CR doing what they claim they are already doing,..  being non-bias, smart and accurate, which they currently are not.

DIB

*Someone who’s livelihood depends on selling their line of product/s.


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #264   Oct 25, 2008 5:11 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Carmine,

Well lets hope you think twice before putting blind faith in and quoting the various CR’s dishonest and/or laughable claims (the Dyson shroud clogs as per you siting CR)

Telling a potential vacuum buyer to walk into a *bias environment and ask for a non-bias opinion is not an option.  Call it crazy, but how about CR doing what they claim they are already doing,..  being non-bias, smart and accurate, which they currently are not.

DIB

*Someone who’s livelihood depends on selling their line of product/s.



Hi back at you DIB:

As you recall Trilobite substantiated the dyson's shroud limitations for clogging and smelling from dirt, dander and pet hair with his own personal account here.  His solution: get a bagged vacuum and avoid the hassle.  Similar to the CR and medical profession's perspectives for allergy and asthma sufferers.

While CR is an excellent starting place, ultimately vacuum buyers end up at the indy-s for the best vacuums on the market.  Having had a successful vacuum business for 40 plus years, I put more faith and trust into vacuum customers to make good choices when given the facts and information to do so. 

To the extent that the best vacuum is a personal choice based on subjective factors too, there is an inherent bias in all of us for own particular needs, likes and budgeted amounts for vacuums.  Independent vacuum cleaner stores/businesses grow and prosper when they consistently match their customers/clientele with the right vacuums for them at the best possible prices.  And continue to serve their needs after the sales.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 25, 2008 by CarmineD
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #265   Oct 26, 2008 10:56 am
CarmineD wrote:
DC24/25 are futile dyson attempts, almost 3 years after the DC15, to redesign/engineer the failed concept [ball steering/manuverabilty] into a product success.  I'm told DC18 sales are better than the new higher priced dyson ball models.  In fact, the DC18 has the end cap premier space at the BB store in NLV while the DC24/25 are relogated to the back isle.  Ironically the DC18  uses an elongated wheel very similar to the GE in the 1960's [which struck out] not a ball wheel like the newer dysons.

Speaking from our own stores sales, the DC24/25 have become our most popular (Dyson) units.  The wider stance of the 25 makes it far more stable when using the attachments and is usually the reason for the upgrade from the DC18. Where the DC18 was once our most popular machine and heavily inventoried we now only keep a couple in boxes at any given time.

End caps in stores are a funny thing.  The can be used to promote new and exciting or used to get rid of overstock and items the store is getting out of.  Having an item in prime real estate does not always mean it's more favorable. As an example (I know it's not a vacuum story but bear with me) Walmart had a flavor of jello that was discontinued...it sat on the shelf at 97 cents and didn't move at all.  It was moved to an end cap, the price  was increased to $1, it completely sold out in half a day. Inventory problem solved.  For the record, no, I did not sit in a Walmart all day and watch this happen.  My son is a manager and passed the story along.

Dusty
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #266   Oct 26, 2008 11:43 am
Question for the VACUUM DEALERS.

Have you noticed a big drop off in customers asking questions about the DYSON brand?

Its been months since vacuum shoppers even ask us about it anymore.

Please only the true vacuum dealers reply,i dont need any biased company propoganda.

MOLE

dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #267   Oct 26, 2008 12:37 pm
mole wrote:
Question for the VACUUM DEALERS.

Have you noticed a big drop off in customers asking questions about the DYSON brand?

Its been months since vacuum shoppers even ask us about it anymore.

Please only the true vacuum dealers reply,i dont need any biased company propoganda.

MOLE


Hi Mole,

For us, interest in Dyson is still quite high.  I would attribute this to the fact that the product is still relatively new in Canada and also we are one of the few independents to carry the product.  I'm always amused at the amount of people that stop in just to ask questions because they've seen the vacuums in the box stores but could never find anyone to help them.  I would imagine that as the years go by and people become familiar with the product it will take it's place in amongst all the other brands and there will be people that will always buy it and others that will never touch  one....just like every other brand of vacuum. 

Dusty
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #268   Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm
mole wrote:
Question for the VACUUM DEALERS.

Have you noticed a big drop off in customers asking questions about the DYSON brand?

Its been months since vacuum shoppers even ask us about it anymore.

Please only the true vacuum dealers reply,i dont need any biased company propoganda.

MOLE



I understand why you would rather have a biased dealers opinion.  Truth from a non dealer really hurts a few.

mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #269   Oct 26, 2008 3:44 pm
Dusty, thanks for your honest reply,i'm glad your hanging in there,you offer your customers product knowledge and service to back it up,Are you selling many dc series canisters?

H.S. i dont get the jist of your post,what are you trying to say?

Am i suppose to get all the retailers opinions? even from the sellers that no nothing about what they sell..........

MOLE

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #270   Oct 26, 2008 5:33 pm
Hello Dusty:

Thanks for the end space description.  Dyson and other vacuum retailers pay for the BEST BUY end space ["cap" as it's called  and/or "premier retail space/prime real estate"] and dictate to the retailers what models to display in that space. 

As it was told to me, here's how BB gets around it.  BB uses the DC24 product label [not DC25] on the space and puts the DC18 in the space.  When and if a dyson rep comes in and notices, it's a: Sorry a customer must have just switched them out.  Most customers, save me, never question the difference, in part because dyson vacuum sales/interest year to date are way down at this BB store [and other retail stores around the country]. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 26, 2008 by CarmineD
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #271   Oct 26, 2008 5:52 pm
mole wrote:
Dusty, thanks for your honest reply,i'm glad your hanging in there,you offer your customers product knowledge and service to back it up,Are you selling many dc series canisters?

We have done well with the DC23's, they sell much better than the original DC21's simply because of the way they empty.  We carry both models in store but for the extra $50 the customer usually goes with the 23 every time.  As far as sales go, in the over $500 vacuum range, the Dyson canisters are second only to Riccar canisters for us.

Dusty
This message was modified Oct 26, 2008 by dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #272   Oct 27, 2008 9:02 am
mole wrote:
Question for the VACUUM DEALERS.

Have you noticed a big drop off in customers asking questions about the DYSON brand?

Its been months since vacuum shoppers even ask us about it anymore.

Please only the true vacuum dealers reply,i dont need any biased company propoganda.

MOLE



Hello MOLE:

Does retired count?  If so, here's my take on dysons.  A decent bagless vacuum.  Nothing special.  Made with the same cheap foreign labor and parts as most others in the industry.  Over-priced.  Over-engineered.  Over-marketed.  And over-rated by most here save the independent vacuum store owners/operators who know the business and its products.  Would I carry if still in business?  Yes, of course.  Why?  For customers who specifically ask and want and to be an authorized service dealer to have access to the parts.  Consumers are better educated on bagless and dysons now that it has a track record in the US.  No longer an unknown entity with a honeymoon period.  And the ASA has curtailed its usage of false/exaggerated product claims. Future for dysons?  Niche vacuum, if it survives.  To do so, it has to re-invent itself for the hard times. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 27, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #273   Oct 27, 2008 9:24 am
Hi Carmine,of course your opinion counts,even though you are supposedly out of the CLUB or LOOP, I believe that the market is more fierce now than ever before,everyone needs that EDGE.Would you sell factory  returned or refurbished machines with a good warranty by you[not DYSON], save the customer a lot of bucks and you the retailer makes more also,I think that you would why not,this is the edge that the dealers have over the big box retailers,Half the price of new sounds real good to the consumer right now doesnt it,

I think that DYSONS are going to be a must have product for the high tech  crowd,who think they are really getting something special than just a vacuum cleaner.

Just my outlook at it.

Regards

MOLE

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #274   Oct 27, 2008 12:51 pm
mole wrote:

I think that DYSONS are going to be a must have product for the high tech  crowd,who think they are really getting something special than just a vacuum cleaner.

Just my outlook at it.

Regards

MOLE



Hello MOLE:

The hi-techs are falling precipitously in the current global market too and some will not survive the fall.  They won't be buying/trading $500 plus vacuums in the near future.  Maybe $200-$250 dysons which should be possible by the end of this year.  The rebuilt classics, that their parents/and grand parents owned/used, will look good to them.  Not just for the retro-itis fact alone but due to price, performance, and fond memories.

Carnine D.

This message was modified Oct 29, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #275   Oct 30, 2008 2:04 pm
I thought awhile back that one of the dyson campers [DIB was that you?] said Wal*Mart stores would carry an exclusive new dyson ball either the DC24/25 in an Animal version.  Haven't seen it yet so asked.  And I hear otherwise.  WM stores will not carry any exclusive/specific dyson models for the Holiday season save on the WM Internet Site.  WM store locations will be hit or miss on the shelves with the brand and models.  What gives?  Did WM and James have another falling-out ala shades reminiscent of 2004?

Any official confirmation forth coming?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 30, 2008 by CarmineD
Venson


Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #276   Oct 30, 2008 9:06 pm
CarmineD wrote:
I thought awhile back that one of the dyson campers [DIB was that you?] said Wal*Mart stores would carry an exclusive new dyson ball either the DC24/25 in an Animal version.  Haven't seen it yet so asked.  And I hear otherwise.  WM stores will not carry any exclusive/specific dyson models for the Holiday season save on the WM Internet Site.  WM store locations will be hit or miss on the shelves with the brand and models.  What gives?  Did WM and James have another falling-out ala shades reminiscent of 2004?

Any official confirmation forth coming?

Carmine D.


Didn't look at the price but Dyson's DC14 Animal is the only model of that brand they had out today.  As for the new, they've picked up on a new Bissell meant to compete with Hoover's garage vac which I hadn't imagined all that big a seller. 

Am I touched in the head or would this for all intent and purpose simply be a lesser version of a central vac?

Venson

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #277   Oct 31, 2008 7:23 am
Venson wrote:
Didn't look at the price but Dyson's DC14 Animal is the only model of that brand they had out today.  As for the new, they've picked up on a new Bissell meant to compete with Hoover's garage vac which I hadn't imagined all that big a seller. 

Am I touched in the head or would this for all intent and purpose simply be a lesser version of a central vac?

Venson



Hi Venson:

I haven't seen the BISSELL competition for the HOOVER garage vacuum.  I'll keep my eyes open for it.  My thought too:  A scaled down central vacuum.  BTW, I like the HOOVER garage vacuum but it's nothing special. 

I would not be surprised if dyson enters this market too with products.  I'm surprised it hasn't already.  It is ideally suited for it.  Why?  It could easily use canister and upright components of existing models to fabricate a worthy garage/central vacuum cleaner.  And skirt the weakness that has plagued many dyson models:  Perfecting a brush roll more suited for American usage than European.  How?  Use one of the many power heads already on the market for a CVS.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Oct 31, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #278   Oct 31, 2008 8:51 am
For all across the pond: What's the latest information on the Westfield Mall due to open next week in London?  Likely for all the space to be filled with retailers?  Optimistic/pessimistic prediction for its opening success?  Any vacuum brands/vendors to be there, presumbably dyson?  I believe there is a German connection to the Mall and Westfield Group [Commerzbank AG], any MIELE/SEBO presence?

Thanks in advance for any intelligence forthcoming.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #279   Oct 31, 2008 6:33 pm
CarmineD wrote:
I thought awhile back that one of the dyson campers [DIB was that you?] said Wal*Mart stores would carry an exclusive new dyson ball either the DC24/25 in an Animal version.  Haven't seen it yet so asked.  And I hear otherwise.  WM stores will not carry any exclusive/specific dyson models for the Holiday season save on the WM Internet Site.  WM store locations will be hit or miss on the shelves with the brand and models.  What gives?  Did WM and James have another falling-out ala shades reminiscent of 2004?

Any official confirmation forth coming?

Carmine D.


Carmine,
I say “The hell with Walmart and their cutthroat ways”.  It maybe a necessary evil (to sell product), but it’s an evil nonetheless.  I saw the DC25 Animal there many months ago and did not say if it was a WM exclusive.

Today, I saw a Los Angeles Target offering these Dyson models:
DC25 Animal
DC25 All Floors
DC24 All Floors
DC17
DC14

DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #280   Oct 31, 2008 6:54 pm
Thanks DIB, I thought it was you who made the statement months ago.  Looks like it scrubbed the DC07, DC15, and DC18.  Surprisingly the DC18 is supposed to be the best dyson sku according to Matt mmc Airblade.  What about the DC16?  Was that scrubbed too?

I suppose the DC25 was just a dyson store display model to bait interest.   Brand makers will drop off a new product and leave in stores to vet client/customer interest.  Hoping the store management will petition Corporate to buy and sell the items.  In the present economy it would be a HARDSELL for WM especially for a dyson ball DC24/DC25 for $400-$500.  I suspect retailers' staffs/management trade inside information on products and their sales.  I can't imagine any dyson ball models [including DC15 for $300] are even on the radar screen for WM customers. 

BTW, don't know if you follow such matters, but Wal*Mart is the only retailer whose stock price has actually appreciated over the last year and stayed steady despite the huge market fluctuations.  WM and COSTCO have been the ONLY bright spots on the retail sales reports all year.  All other retailers' stock prices, including BEST BUY, SEARS, and the like are down.  BEST BUY and SEARS' stock prices almost in half from year ago levels.  Other retailers have fared very poorly too. 

Carmine D. 

This message was modified Oct 31, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #281   Nov 1, 2008 12:20 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Thanks DIB, I thought it was you who made the statement months ago.  Looks like it scrubbed the DC07, DC15, and DC18.  Surprisingly the DC18 is supposed to be the best dyson sku according to Matt mmc Airblade.  What about the DC16?  Was that scrubbed too?

I suppose the DC25 was just a dyson store display model to bait interest.   Brand makers will drop off a new product and leave in stores to vet client/customer interest.  Hoping the store management will petition Corporate to buy and sell the items.  In the present economy it would be a HARDSELL for WM especially for a dyson ball DC24/DC25 for $400-$500.  I suspect retailers' staffs/management trade inside information on products and their sales.  I can't imagine any dyson ball models [including DC15 for $300] are even on the radar screen for WM customers. 

BTW, don't know if you follow such matters, but Wal*Mart is the only retailer whose stock price has actually appreciated over the last year and stayed steady despite the huge market fluctuations.  WM and COSTCO have been the ONLY bright spots on the retail sales reports all year.  All other retailers' stock prices, including BEST BUY, SEARS, and the like are down.  BEST BUY and SEARS' stock prices almost in half from year ago levels.  Other retailers have fared very poorly too. 

Carmine D. 


Hello Carmine,

Talking of the Slim...
It success has spawned another entirely new Dyson created category, I like to call - “Steerable’s”.  When I saw the Slim commercial for the first time I new it was going to be huge, I just did not know how huge.  Yes, big sales for Dyson and more Dyson models of steerable's no doubt.  What I did not forecast was copy-cats buy the major players.  Miele and Hoover Candy are just the beginning.  Certainly Oreck for example can easily make his antiquated machines, not so antiquated and do it fairly easily and cheaply...  make em steerable's.

Now that the major players are getting into steerable’s and doing so with full sized vacuums, now it is obvious why Dyson is choosing (I’ve heard or read hear on a post) to keep the 15 and make it a dealer exclusive.  Dyson needs to look hard at his design philosophies to make the 15 feel lighter to turn.  He can get away with his design philosophies on the 18, 24 and 25 due to their small footprint and weight but it does not translate to the DC15.  By observations only, the Miele and Hoover as unresponsive as they turn (steering slop from midline to 30 degrees left and right) look to require less strength to turn vice the DC15.

DIB

P.S.  You know how I feel about monopolies and their power.  WM is just another monopoly with unprecedented power.  I put WM right along with Bill Gates in the category of “Power Whores”.


Trilobite


Joined: Nov 7, 2007
Points: 121

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #282   Nov 1, 2008 3:40 pm
The DC15 is old hat. That model has been superceded by the DCs 18, 24 & 25. Even the DC18 has been made obsolete. Any major improvements in weight, steering etc. seem to justify the release of a new model.

True, Dyson sometimes makes small modifications to a current model; witness the modified soleplate and cyclone assembly of DC07, but major alterations mean a new machine.

R.I.P. the DC15 and the DC18.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #283   Nov 1, 2008 5:45 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
DIB

P.S.  You know how I feel about monopolies and their power.  WM is just another monopoly with unprecedented power.  I put WM right along with Bill Gates in the category of “Power Whores”.


DIB:

I share Trilobite's sentiments on the DC15 and DC18.  Those that will sell, have sold, and it was their final curtain call when dyson launched the DC24/DC25.  You bought your DC15 for $300 [half the original MSRP] several years ago from BEST BUY.  DC18's are discounted by all retailers who still have them sitting on the shelves.  Most retailers dropped the DC15 and DC18 from their stores months before the DC24/25 launched this spring.  BEST BUY stores were the first to scrub the DC15.   It was BB's worse dyson seller up to then.  Will the DC24/DC25 sell among the hoi polloi?   Maneuverability is one thing.  A wheel the size of a soccer ball with a vacuum sitting atop, well to me it is a joke.  Add in the increased filter maintenance and what do you have?  A comedy of errors.  Vacuum cleaners are not wheel barrows, my good friend.  

WRT W*M and Microsoft, your descriptions are off color and off base.  I didn't see either grovel for a US Gov't bail out. Their operations and success are legendary.  Something you can respect since you speak of it so much about your fave brand/inventor/designer.  Not to mention, the money that Bill and Melinda plow back into charities and worthwhile causes.  $60 BILLION  by last count.  If that's whoring, you and I don't share the same definition.  Recently W*M imposed huge sanctions and standards on its Chinese suppliers with written caveats to conform by a due date certain or risk business suspensions.  W*M is taking the lead in the retail industry by imposing quality controls on its Chinese suppliers with other retailers sure to follow suit.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 1, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #284   Nov 1, 2008 6:35 pm
CarmineD wrote:
DIB:

I share Trilobite's sentiments on the DC15 and DC18.  Those that will sell, have sold, and it was their final curtain call when dyson launched the DC24/DC25.  You bought your DC15 for $300 [half the original MSRP] several years ago from BEST BUY.  DC18's are discounted by all retailers who still have them sitting on the shelves.  Most retailers dropped the DC15 and DC18 from their stores months before the DC24/25 launched this spring.  BEST BUY stores were the first to scrub the DC15.   It was BB's worse dyson seller up to then.  Will the DC24/DC25 sell among the hoi polloi?   Maneuverability is one thing.  A wheel the size of a soccer ball with a vacuum sitting atop, well to me it is a joke.  Add in the increased filter maintenance and what do you have?  A comedy of errors.  Vacuum cleaners are not wheel barrows, my good friend.  

WRT W*M and Microsoft, your descriptions are off color and off base.  I didn't see either grovel for a US Gov't bail out. Their operations and success are legendary.  Something you can respect since you speak of it so much about your fave brand/inventor/designer.  Not to mention, the money that Bill and Melinda plow back into charities and worthwhile causes.  $60 BILLION  by last count.  If that's whoring, you and I don't share the same definition.  Recently W*M imposed huge sanctions and standards on its Chinese suppliers with written caveats to conform by a due date certain or risk business suspensions.  W*M is taking the lead in the retail industry by imposing quality controls on its Chinese suppliers with other retailers sure to follow suit.

Carmine D.


Carmine,
Re: Gates and how he got there (got all his money and power).  We’ll agree to disagree. 

Re: Your Gates to Dyson comparison.  There is no proof anywhere that says Dyson is a monopoly, nor has enough power to strong arm governments and/or multibillion dollar corporations. - There is much documented proof of Gates getting caught for doing just that.  People see only what they want see.  We’ll agree to disagree.

Re:  Walmart.  Name me one single corporation that’s more responsible for pushing American manufacturing (mom and pops to billion dollar corps) off shore in the (their) quest for price reductions.  American manufacturing has a long history of building quality and safe products.  China, not America is in need of [much] reform.   We’ll agree to disagree.

DIB
This message was modified Nov 1, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #285   Nov 1, 2008 7:03 pm
The DC15 is far from dead.  Dyson can do much with this diamond in the rough.  Plug up the air-leak (the debris channel) and it will out-suck all Dyson steerables.  IMO, the DC15’s nozzle is a disaster and needs reworking and should not be all that hard or expensive to do.  The cyclones are a bit heavy and should not be hard or expensive to fix too or simply snapping a Core + Root set of cyclones (and bin) onto a DC15 should not take much effort or cost too.  Change up the color scheme and/or nozzle and/or cyclonic filters and Dyson will have a provable - worlds best filtering, steerable full sized upright.


DIB

P.S.  About 6 months ago, Dyson changed up the color schemes on their oldest vacuum, the DC07 and bundled it with $50-$90 of Dyson accessories and sold 10,000 units in 12 hours.  The largest one day sale of any Dyson at HSN.  People want Dyson’s no matter how long it has been on the market.


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #286   Nov 1, 2008 8:27 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Carmine,

Re: Your Gates to Dyson comparison. 
Re:  Walmart.  Name me one single corporation that’s more responsible for pushing American manufacturing (mom and pops to billion dollar corps) off shore in the (their) quest for price reductions. 
DIB


DIB:

I have no qualms about disagreeing with you.  BUT don't put words in mouth.  I never compared dyson to Microsoft  and/or James to Bill.  Read again, my friend.  You boast of dyson's success all the time by citing the Forbes list.  Who's at the top of the Forbes list and has been for many years? Hint: You called him a whore.

Wal*Mart didn't put me out of business.  Nor the vacuum cleaner store owner/operator that's now in my same location, who's alive and doing well in the vacuum business.  IRS and the State of New Jersey nearly did.  Not to mention ruin my credit rating, my personal and business name, business reputation, freeze all my personal and business assets, and make it impossible for me to conduct business because I could not access my checking and savings accounts.  BTW, I won the court case, and IRS/NJ lost.  It took 3 years, 2 lengthy audits, and alot of legal fees.  Let me tell you, I'd rather fight/compete with W*M any time than Uncle Sam and the State of NJ.  

In business, it's survival of the fittest.  The businesses that survive are those that can adapt, improvise and overcome.  Those that can't, don't.  No country and/or ethnicity has a monopoly on it. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 1, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #287   Nov 1, 2008 8:40 pm

Warning to readers:   The below has nothing to do with vacuums per se.  But does have alot to do with vacuum consumers, vacuum retailers, vacuum manufacturers, and vacuum sales and service in the USA and worldwide.

DysonInventsBig wrote:


P.S.  About 6 months ago, Dyson changed up the color schemes on their oldest vacuum, the DC07 and bundled it with $50-$90 of Dyson accessories and sold 10,000 units in 12 hours.  The largest one day sale of any Dyson at HSN.  People want Dyson’s no matter how long it has been on the market.


In case you missed it, in the last 6 months the US stock markets have lost 40 percent of their value.  [As did most of the global markets].  You can check my post/thread here on the Martin Luther King Holiday weekend, January 21, 2008.  I predicted it.  Here's a post from the thread [with highlights added for empahsis]:

______________________________________________________________________________

Re: Big Hit on the London Markets
Reply #47   Mar 15, 2008 8:00 am

Mark your calendars.  March 14 [not the Ides of March as Shakespeare said in Julius Ceasar].  Why?  The US government bailed out Bears Stearns, an icon financial institution with 80 years of revenues and profits.  It's CEO said it had a liquidity problem [read it couldn't make payroll and its financial obligations to its clients and customers].  The US taxpayers in their kindheartedness gave BS an interest free loan.  Why?  Because BS is too large to fail [read the domino effect would bring down many others]. There will be more to come to drink from the trough of the US taxpayers in the months and years to come. 

Stock price of BS dropped 50 percent yesterday.  It's down 75 percent for the year. 

Carmine D.

______________________________________________________________________

In summary since my March 14 post, SIX historic financial stalwarts in the USA industry went belly up.  The US Gov't gave $200 BILLION  to Americans in stimulus payments to jump start the US economy.  THe US Gov't agreed to give $700 BILLION dollars more to bail out the rest of the financial industry and institutions.  Home foreclosures [the American dream] are at record highs not seen since the Great Depression in the 1930's.  The unemployment rates by state and nationally are the worse since the Great Depression.  Retail sales are at the worse levels in decades.  Alan Greenspan, the Federal Reserve Chairman for 20 years, often called the most powerful man in Washington and hailed as the greatest Central Banker of all time, with no equal, was raked over the coals by Congress in the last few weeks for failing to know/prevent the collapse of the US economy.  There are even rumblings that several European governments will default on their debts! 

In short, alot has changed in the last 6 months, my friend.  And they will never be the same again. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 2, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #288   Nov 2, 2008 6:53 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB

P.S.  About 6 months ago, Dyson changed up the color schemes on their oldest vacuum, the DC07 and bundled it with $50-$90 of Dyson accessories and sold 10,000 units in 12 hours.  The largest one day sale of any Dyson at HSN.  People want Dyson’s no matter how long it has been on the market.



Hi DIB:

Your zeal for all things dyson is admirable tho grossly misguided and naive.  To your credit and honesty you admitted here that your sales and marketing background is very limited. 

Now, I suspect that HSN and dyson struck a deal to off load an inventory of unsold DC07 vacuums.  Which at the time were 6 years old.  No doubt, in an effort to discontinue the model once and for all.  How?  With a promo of extra tools' value.  In hindsight the HSN/dyson was excellent timing tho I have to question the sales number.  Why? 

I pointed out before that you have no verification of the actual sales number save what HSN says.  Like auction bids and bidders, the more sales buzz/frenzy generated by HSN, the more buyers.  In the past, many of the auction house bidders were shills.  It's one of the oldest cons in the sales business.  Got to have it.  Can't live without it!  Everyones' buying!  DTD vacuum salesmen use to say to the person opening the door, I just sold "x" number in the neighborhood.  Why? To get their foot in the door and do the demo!

BTW, when in recent past/near term future has/will HSN sold/sell new dysons?  All and any intelligence forthcoming on this matter is appreciated.  I seem to recall that one of the dyson campers here awhile back [may have been you DIB] said HSN planned to launch the new dyson ball models/cann.  Ever happen?

FYI: Stock info for HSN:  Note the 52 week hi-lo in red.  It's price is down from its high by almost 70 percent.

HSN, INC. CMN STK

(NasdaqGS: HSNI)

NEW Pre-market Real-time: 6.14 Down 0.81 (11.65%) 3:59pm EThelp

Last Trade:6.15
Trade Time:Oct 31
Change:Down 0.80 (11.51%)
Prev Close:6.95
Open:6.64
Bid:5.66 x 700
Ask:6.25 x 100
1y Target Est:7.00
Day's Range:5.55 - 6.99
52wk Range:3.63 - 16.54
Volume:632,959
Avg Vol (3m):846,707
Market Cap:N/A
P/E (ttm):N/A
EPS (ttm):N/A
Div & Yield:N/A (N/A)
Quotes delayed, except where indicated otherwise. For consolidated real-time quotes (incl. pre/post market data), sign up for a free trial of Real-time Quotes.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 2, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #289   Nov 2, 2008 12:18 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hi DIB:

Your zeal for all things dyson is admirable tho grossly misguided and naive.  To your credit and honesty you admitted here that your sales and marketing background is very limited. 

Now, I suspect that HSN and dyson struck a deal to off load an inventory of unsold DC07 vacuums.  Which at the time were 6 years old.  No doubt, in an effort to discontinue the model once and for all.  How?  With a promo of extra tools' value.  In hindsight the HSN/dyson was excellent timing tho I have to question the sales number.  Why? 

I pointed out before that you have no verification of the actual sales number save what HSN says.  Like auction bids and bidders, the more sales buzz/frenzy generated by HSN, the more buyers.  In the past, many of the auction house bidders were shills.  It's one of the oldest cons in the sales business.  Got to have it.  Can't live without it!  Everyones' buying!  DTD vacuum salesmen use to say to the person opening the door, I just sold "x" number in the neighborhood.  Why? To get their foot in the door and do the demo!

BTW, when in recent past/near term future has/will HSN sold/sell new dysons?  All and any intelligence forthcoming on this matter is appreciated.  I seem to recall that one of the dyson campers here awhile back [may have been you DIB] said HSN planned to launch the new dyson ball models/cann.  Ever happen?

FYI: Stock info for HSN:  Note the 52 week hi-lo in red.  It's price is down from its high by almost 70 percent.

HSN, INC. CMN STK

(NasdaqGS: HSNI)

NEW Pre-market Real-time: 6.14 Down 0.81 (11.65%) 3:59pm EThelp

Last Trade:6.15
Trade Time:Oct 31
Change:Down 0.80 (11.51%)
Prev Close:6.95
Open:6.64
Bid:5.66 x 700
Ask:6.25 x 100
1y Target Est:7.00
Day's Range:5.55 - 6.99
52wk Range:3.63 - 16.54
Volume:632,959
Avg Vol (3m):846,707
Market Cap:N/A
P/E (ttm):N/A
EPS (ttm):N/A
Div & Yield:N/A (N/A)
Quotes delayed, except where indicated otherwise. For consolidated real-time quotes (incl. pre/post market data), sign up for a free trial of Real-time Quotes.

Carmine D.


Hello Carmen,

...of your HSN/Dyson conspiracy theory.  You may want to exchange your paranoia for some of my “misguided naive[té]”.  Misguided and naive looks paltry by comparison.

DIB
This message was modified Nov 2, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



Trilobite


Joined: Nov 7, 2007
Points: 121

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #290   Nov 2, 2008 1:10 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
The DC15 is far from dead.  Dyson can do much with this diamond in the rough.  Plug up the air-leak (the debris channel) and it will out-suck all Dyson steerables.  IMO, the DC15’s nozzle is a disaster and needs reworking and should not be all that hard or expensive to do.  The cyclones are a bit heavy and should not be hard or expensive to fix too or simply snapping a Core + Root set of cyclones (and bin) onto a DC15 should not take much effort or cost too.  Change up the color scheme and/or nozzle and/or cyclonic filters and Dyson will have a provable - worlds best filtering, steerable full sized upright.


DIB

P.S.  About 6 months ago, Dyson changed up the color schemes on their oldest vacuum, the DC07 and bundled it with $50-$90 of Dyson accessories and sold 10,000 units in 12 hours.  The largest one day sale of any Dyson at HSN.  People want Dyson’s no matter how long it has been on the market.



Well it sure ain't on the UK website, neither is the DC18.

The USA site has no sign of the DC15 either. Any that are on sale in the stores, will be old stock that people are not buying.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #291   Nov 2, 2008 5:07 pm
So tell us DIB:

Paranoia and conspiracy theories aside:  Did you say that HSN would launch the new dyson ball models awhile back, and did it? 

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #292   Nov 2, 2008 8:00 pm
CarmineD wrote:
So tell us DIB:

Paranoia and conspiracy theories aside:  Did you say that HSN would launch the new dyson ball models awhile back, and did it? 

Carmine D.


Carmen,

I did post (in advance of the launch) one European patent application demonstrating the Root + Core filtration. I do watch for and follow Dyson on HSN. If and when I see new Dyson products on HSN's webpage I'll post of it here and possible launches. It is Motorhead who speaks of future Dyson products and loose time frames and not me.

DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #293   Nov 3, 2008 6:46 am
Thanks DIB:

I suspect it was wishful thinking on your part when you posted that HSN had dysons coming up for sale and opined that it might be the latest and greatest ball models.  Turned out to be the same old DC14 with some extras.  

BTW, BEST BUY stores launched a dyson Animal DC25 ball model in its Sunday newspaper supplement for $549.  Same as the All Floors model plus a turbo tool and purple color.  It will be a HARDSELL.  Don't know if it's an exclusive model for BB.  May be, since big box retailers will have even a HARDERSELL at the current price and hard times. 

Talking about hard times, the BB stock price is down over 50 percent from its yearly highs.  I hightlighted in red.  BTW, the numbers are in US dollars.

26.88
+2.27 (9.22%)
Oct 31 - Close
  Open: 25.30    Mkt Cap: 11.08B        Dividend: 0.14
  High: 27.07    52Wk High: 53.90     P/E: 13.63    Yield: 2.08
  Low: 24.61   52Wk Low: 20.00   Beta: 1.41    Shares: 412.33M
  Vol: 0.00    Avg Vol: 10.30M    EPS: 3.15    Inst. Own: 78%
After Hours: 24.61 -2.27 (-8.44%) - Oct 31, 5:13PM EDT

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 3, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #294   Nov 3, 2008 1:07 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Thanks DIB:

I suspect it was wishful thinking on your part when you posted that HSN had dysons coming up for sale and opined that it might be the latest and greatest ball models.  Turned out to be the same old DC14 with some extras.  

BTW, BEST BUY stores launched a dyson Animal DC25 ball model in its Sunday newspaper supplement for $549.  Same as the All Floors model plus a turbo tool and purple color.  It will be a HARDSELL.  Don't know if it's an exclusive model for BB.  May be, since big box retailers will have even a HARDERSELL at the current price and hard times. 

Talking about hard times, the BB stock price is down over 50 percent from its yearly highs.  I hightlighted in red.  BTW, the numbers are in US dollars.

26.88
+2.27 (9.22%)
Oct 31 - Close
  Open: 25.30    Mkt Cap: 11.08B    
    Dividend: 0.14
  High: 27.07    52Wk High: 53.90     P/E: 13.63    Yield: 2.08
  Low: 24.61   52Wk Low: 20.00   Beta: 1.41    Shares: 412.33M
  Vol: 0.00    Avg Vol: 10.30M    EPS: 3.15    Inst. Own: 78%
After Hours: 24.61 -2.27 (-8.44%) - Oct 31, 5:13PM EDT

Carmine D.


 Carmen,

 $550 is a lot. So is the $500 Miele  S7 with its costs of the bags. I have not read all posts but have you complained or brought up the cost of the Miele S7 and the bag costs too? It seems only Dyson's are viewable on your radar?   DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #295   Nov 3, 2008 1:20 pm
Hello DIB:

Nice diversion from discountinued dysons and dyson ball models not selling. 

When smart, informed buyers spend $500-$1000 on premium made vacuums that last 20 years, most will never quibble over $50-$75 a year for bags.  It's not even on their radar screen.

Now onto your fave brand:  Expensive bagless vacuums with costly filters and regular filter maintenence are a HARDSELL.  Add allergy and asthma sufferers with pets and it's MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.  Solution:  Bagged!   MIELE-S, RICCAR-S, SEBO-s, even ORECK--S.  Why?  For both health and wealth reasons.  Actually makes bagged MIELE-s and others easier to sell.  Add a 6 inch profile with maneuverabilty to boot.  Great for vacuuming under furniture without using tools.  Big time and effort saver.  Just like bags plus the added benefit of no health risk.  Do you really think these customers are worried about spending $15-$20 for a pack of bags several times a year?  Not even on their radar screen. 

The bag cost issue is what it is my friend:  Bagless brand marketing propaganda.  At best it works only once with a bagless vacuum purchase.  Even HARDSELL cashed in his 2 year old dyson for a bagged vacuum.  Case closed.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 3, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #296   Nov 3, 2008 4:17 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB:

Nice diversion from discountinued dysons and dyson ball models not selling. 

When smart, informed buyers spend $500-$1000 on premium made vacuums that last 20 years, most will never quibble over $50-$75 a year for bags.  It's not even on their radar screen.

Now onto your fave brand:  Expensive bagless vacuums with costly filters and regular filter maintenence are a HARDSELL.  Add allergy and asthma sufferers with pets and it's MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.  Solution:  Bagged!   MIELE-S, RICCAR-S, SEBO-s, even ORECK--S.  Why?  For both health and wealth reasons.  Actually makes bagged MIELE-s and others easier to sell.  Add a 6 inch profile with maneuverabilty to boot.  Great for vacuuming under furniture without using tools.  Big time and effort saver.  Just like bags plus the added benefit of no health risk.  Do you really think these customers are worried about spending $15-$20 for a pack of bags several times a year?  Not even on their radar screen. 

The bag cost issue is what it is my friend:  Bagless brand marketing propaganda.  At best it works only once with a bagless vacuum purchase.  Even HARDSELL cashed in his 2 year old dyson for a bagged vacuum.  Case closed.

Carmine D.


 Carmine,

 Smart people? A $500-$1000 vacuum purchase plus another $1000-$1500 in vacuum bags over 20 years is somehow smarter than purchasing a brand-new $500 Dyson every five years?

 Health risk? You guys say there is no health risk in our carpets, that it's just dust, harmless dust?

DIB


DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #297   Nov 3, 2008 4:25 pm
Dyson is reported as having more sales than the previous year...

http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/3805379.Dyson_sales_soar_in_UK_rating/


HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #298   Nov 3, 2008 5:10 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB:

Nice diversion from discountinued dysons and dyson ball models not selling. 

When smart, informed buyers spend $500-$1000 on premium made vacuums that last 20 years, most will never quibble over $50-$75 a year for bags.  It's not even on their radar screen.

Now onto your fave brand:  Expensive bagless vacuums with costly filters and regular filter maintenence are a HARDSELL.  Add allergy and asthma sufferers with pets and it's MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.  Solution:  Bagged!   MIELE-S, RICCAR-S, SEBO-s, even ORECK--S.  Why?  For both health and wealth reasons.  Actually makes bagged MIELE-s and others easier to sell.  Add a 6 inch profile with maneuverabilty to boot.  Great for vacuuming under furniture without using tools.  Big time and effort saver.  Just like bags plus the added benefit of no health risk.  Do you really think these customers are worried about spending $15-$20 for a pack of bags several times a year?  Not even on their radar screen. 

The bag cost issue is what it is my friend:  Bagless brand marketing propaganda.  At best it works only once with a bagless vacuum purchase.  Even HARDSELL cashed in his 2 year old dyson for a bagged vacuum.  Case closed.

Carmine D.


I think catlady is the only one to post on buying a new Miele.  She complained about a $2 cost in replacement bags over her initial bag purchase.  Your statement about the cost of bags not being an issue went out the door.

My Dyson was over 2 years old when I sold it.  Again you need to get your facts before spouting off.  BTW,  neither bagged vacuum that replaced the DC07 is equal in performance.  So before you rattle off I will tell you that as soon as I meet another vacuum salesman that wants to lose a bet that gets me a new Dyson I will once again own one.

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #299   Nov 3, 2008 5:28 pm
 Dyson has been busy filing patents in Europe. Some of which are not vacuum related.    DIB

http://v3.espacenet.com/searchResults?locale=en_EP&PA=Dyson&ST=advanced&compact=false&DB=EPODOC&submitted=true


This message was modified Nov 3, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #300   Nov 3, 2008 5:36 pm
Hello HARDSELL:

I almost gave up on you.  Your time away dulled your memory.  If you read CATLADY's final response on the matter here she says her health and pets are more important than the cost of the MIELE bags.  Her verdict: Her MIELE S7 is the winner over a bagless dyson.  BTW, read the vacuum reviews on this Site.  MIELE S7 is the winner for all posters not just CATLADY [aka Melanie MIELE].

You keep saying that the gifted refurb dyson you cashed out is better than the new bagged vacuum you bought with the proceeds.  But no new dyson, yet?   Why?  Are you still looking for another free refurb for hawking dysons here?  Like I told you:  Not going to happen!  Several retailers beat you too it.  And your name is mud with the dyson campers.  Posting here that you cashed in your dyson gift for a bagged vacuum?  What were you drinking?

No new Lexus gifted to you either.  Times are tough, my friend.  Toyota sales will be in the tank soon just like dyson sales.  You heard it from me first.  Ta Ta toyato.  

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 3, 2008 by CarmineD
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #301   Nov 3, 2008 5:46 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Now onto your fave brand:  Expensive bagless vacuums with costly filters and regular filter maintenence are a HARDSELL.  Add allergy and asthma sufferers with pets and it's MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.  Solution:  Bagged!   MIELE-S, RICCAR-S, SEBO-s, even ORECK--S.

Last time I checked, Miele, Sebo, Riccar etc also had filters that needed regular changing and are also costly to replace.  When showing these machines I am almost always asked the cost of filters and bags and contrary to what you may believe, it does make and break a sale. Just because somebody can afford a higher priced unit doesn't mean they are willing to kick out top dollar for bags and filters all the time. It all comes down to customer preference. While I understand you have a strong dislike for Dyson product, there is no shortage of others who will rave about it to anyone they meet.  In the end, it's just another vacuum that's carving out its market niche just like all the other brands before it have done.

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #302   Nov 3, 2008 5:49 pm
Wholeheartedly agree Dusty.  Like I said: For "MOST" who buy quality bagged vacuums, the yearly cost of bags are not even on the radar screen.  Not all buyers. 

BTW, glad to hear you say dyson is a niche seller.  I've said that since 2002 when it was launched.  I don't dislike 'dyson' per se.  It's a vacuum.  It's a decent bagless, save the ball dyson models and the hand held.  But dysons in general are [and have been] overpriced, overrated, overengineered and overmarketed.  There are many more much better vacuum choices for the same price and/or less.  If that is what you mean when you say I strongly dislike dyson product, then you're absolutely right.  I agree.  Mea culpa.

Let's see what should I do for penance?  I know. I'll petition the Vatican, the Holy Father, and the Conference of Catholic Bishops and demand that the Canon Law of the Catholic Church be amended to include an 11th Commandment.  A new beatitude:  Thou shalt love dyson!   

But I'm not optimistic.  They are Lindhaus lovers!

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 3, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #303   Nov 3, 2008 6:07 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Wholeheartedly agree Dusty.  Like I said: For "MOST" who buy quality bagged vacuums, the yearly cost of bags are not even on the radar screen.  Not all buyers. 

BTW, glad to hear you say dyson is a niche seller.  I've said that since 2002 when it was launched.  I don't dislike 'dyson' per se.  It's a vacuum.  It's a decent bagless, save the ball dyson models and the hand held.  But dysons in general are [and have been] overpriced, overrated and overengineered.  There are many more much better vacuum choices for the same and/or less price, IMHO.  If that is what you mean when you say I dislike dyson product, then you're absolutely right and I agree.  I'm guilty of the egregious sin of disliking dyson product.  So are many many others.

What should I do for penance?  Wait: I know. I'll petition the Vatican and the Holy Father and ask that the Canon Law of the Catholic Church be amended to include an 11th Commandment.  A new beatitude:  Thou shalt love dyson!  

Carmine D.


How about H.S. should he be added to the list????????????????

MOLE
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #304   Nov 3, 2008 6:14 pm
mole wrote:
How about H.S. should he be added to the list????????????????

MOLE


HI MOLE:

He's a recipient of the new beatitude that I want added:  He who praises dyson, shall be gifted a free refurb!

Carmine D.

mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #305   Nov 3, 2008 6:20 pm
The real dyson or the toy dyson ?

It probally would not matter they both clean the same.

Think he'd know the difference.


MOLE
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #306   Nov 3, 2008 6:39 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Wholeheartedly agree Dusty.  Like I said: For "MOST" who buy quality bagged vacuums, the yearly cost of bags are not even on the radar screen.  Not all buyers. 

BTW, glad to hear you say dyson is a niche seller.  I've said that since 2002 when it was launched.  I don't dislike 'dyson' per se.  It's a vacuum.  It's a decent bagless, save the ball dyson models and the hand held.  But dysons in general are [and have been] overpriced, overrated and overengineered.  There are many more much better vacuum choices for the same and/or less price, IMHO.  If that is what you mean when you say I dislike dyson product, then you're absolutely right and I agree.  I'm guilty of the egregious sin of disliking dyson product.  So are many many others.

What should I do for penance?  Wait: I know. I'll petition the Vatican and the Holy Father and ask that the Canon Law of the Catholic Church be amended to include an 11th Commandment.  A new beatitude:  Thou shalt love dyson!  

Carmine D.


"Most" could mean 51%.  That leaves 49% of buyers thinking twice due to the cost of consumables.    More often than not, our customers make bag and filter costs a concern no matter what machine they are buying, especially now that the economy is in the tank. 

When I say you dislike Dyson, I base this from the amount of posts where you trash the product.  You certainly put forth an anti Dyson slant.

 Not being a religious person I couldn't tell you one way or another if it's a sin not to love Dyson but I'm pretty sure the book says somewhere you get merit points for opening your heart to everybody :-)

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #307   Nov 4, 2008 7:00 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
  
 Come on Carmine, talk vacuums.

Hello DIB and Dusty:

Most, not all, can mean a range anywhere from 51-99.9999999 percent too! 

I not only opened my heart to dyson but also my pocket book: I purchased a DC07 pink [Susan B. Komen edition] from TARGET.  And I was sadly disappointed and underwhelmed with the results.  The gawdawful ratcheting noise scared the bejeepers out my lab.  My dear Wife and dog would leave our house whenever I started to vacuum with the DC07.  Thank goodness the clutch and brushbar shutoff are discontinued/obsolete features. 

I gave the company and vacuum another chance.  And even posted about it here.  The DC24, lightweight.  The latest and greatest.  Scoped it out at TARGET the first week it launched.  With my dear Wife.  The deal breaker for me was the bottom cord hook.  No way for these old bones of mine can touch my toes to wrap the cord.  ;-) 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 4, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #308   Nov 4, 2008 8:11 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello HARDSELL:

I almost gave up on you.  Your time away dulled your memory.  If you read CATLADY's final response on the matter here she says her health and pets are more important than the cost of the MIELE bags.  Her verdict: Her MIELE S7 is the winner over a bagless dyson.  BTW, read the vacuum reviews on this Site.  MIELE S7 is the winner for all posters not just CATLADY [aka Melanie MIELE].

S7 ates 4 stars.  DC07 rates 5 stars.  Winner is Dyson

Read the Cons by catlady.  Could Miele have a defect in the design of the foot pedal?  How about the clogging tools? How about bag leakage on the S-5.  So bad it clogs the Hepa filter.  I never experienced a clogged filter on the DC07 in 3 years.

You keep saying that the gifted refurb dyson you cashed out is better than the new bagged vacuum you bought with the proceeds.  But no new dyson, yet?   Why?  Are you still looking for another free refurb for hawking dysons here?  Like I told you:  Not going to happen!  Several retailers beat you too it.  And your name is mud with the dyson campers.  Posting here that you cashed in your dyson gift for a bagged vacuum?  What were you drinking?

Does BB sell refurbs?  I picked mine off the shelf at BB and the loser of the bet paid for it.  The only one called mud on the forum is you.  I will retract that statement if you can show me a Dyson camper who has disagreed with me.  Otherwise I will consider it more of your BS. 

In your oreck review (on this site) you claim that the hoover wt cleans better.  Why did you get rid of the wt?

Remember, I inherited a bagless hoover and gave it away.  Why?  Had to use the Dyson to clean the screen and filter about three times with each vacuuming.

No new Lexus gifted to you either.  Times are tough, my friend.  Toyota sales will be in the tank soon just like dyson sales.  You heard it from me first.  Ta Ta toyato.  

Toyota sales are suffering less than Honda and the big 3 US auto makers.  If Toyota goes under we may have to ride horses. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #309   Nov 4, 2008 8:14 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB and Dusty:

Most, not all, can mean a range anywhere from 51-99.9999999 percent too! 

I not only opened my heart to dyson but also my pocket book: I purchased a DC07 pink [Susan B. Komen edition] from TARGET.  And I was sadly disappointed and underwhelmed with the results.  The gawdawful ratcheting noise scared the bejeepers out my lab.  My dear Wife and dog would leave our house whenever I started to vacuum with the DC07.  Thank goodness the clutch and brushbar shutoff are discontinued/obsolete features. 

I gave the company and vacuum another chance.  And even posted about it here.  The DC24, lightweight.  The latest and greatest.  Scoped it out at TARGET the first week it launched.  With my dear Wife.  The deal breaker for me was the bottom cord hook.  No way for these old bones of mine can touch my toes to wrap the cord.  ;-) 

Carmine D.



I had a bad experience with oreck as you did with Dyson.  Why does your opinon seem to be the only one that matters?
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #310   Nov 4, 2008 8:30 am
Hello HARDSELL:

I still own and use my ORECK XL Classic and plan to upgrade!  You cashed out your free dyson refurb, haven't bought a new dyson ...............................

The HOOVER WT cleaned/groomed my rugs the best.  The ORECK is a very close second.  BTW, the HOOVER TEMPO for $70 matches the HOOVER WT performance in just about all respects save weight/bulk.  It's lighter and less bulky than the WT.  Nice vacuum for the price and duly impressed.  I notice more retailers with HOOVER TEMPO models in their own exclusive colors too.  Must be a sign of the hard economic times and falling vacuum sales.  Looking forward to NPD numbers.  I suspect vacuum sales will be down again in 2008.  Second straight year in a row if it happens.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 4, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #311   Nov 4, 2008 9:35 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello HARDSELL:

I still own and use my ORECK XL Classic and plan to upgrade!  You cashed out your free dyson refurb, haven't bought a new dyson ...............................

The HOOVER WT cleaned/groomed my rugs the best.  The ORECK is a very close second.  BTW, the HOOVER TEMPO for $70 matches the HOOVER WT performance in just about all respects save weight/bulk.  It's lighter and less bulky than the WT.  Nice vacuum for the price and duly impressed.  I notice more retailers with HOOVER TEMPO models in their own exclusive colors too.  Must be a sign of the hard economic times and falling vacuum sales.  Looking forward to NPD numbers.  I suspect vacuum sales will be down again in 2008.  Second straight year in a row if it happens.

Carmine D.


Carmine,  did you have to retract what you said about Honda sales exceeding Toyota?  Seems that Toyota sold about 60% more cars in Oct. 08.  Honda is down 25% YTD vs 23% for Toyota.

I know how you like to discuss market share.  Toyota has 18.1 and Honda 10.2 %

Canada reported 1.7% increase in auto sales for Oct.  Toyota up 9.4 % from a year earlier and Honda up 1%.

Could it be that you are also wring on Dyson sales?    

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #312   Nov 4, 2008 12:31 pm
Hello HARDSELL/Dusty:

You're right HS,  I like to look at market share and stock prices.  But I prefer trends over time.  One month, one quarter, one year doesn't make a meaningful business trend.  It took the oligopoly almost 40 years to get to where it is today.  Same same for sales of vehicles and vacuums. 

I did not post a Review on the DC07 pink here.  I suspect if I were to do so, mine would bring the star rating down.  I do not Review any vacuum products here on this Site that I dislike.  However, when I'm asked and/or I read a post that I agree/disagree with about a certain product, I will post here on the Discussions.  If that's trashing a product, so be it.  Mea culpa.  I prefer to say I offer constructive criticism with charity.  Why?  My star ratings [if fair/poor] don't get tallied in the overall product score, which most readers see and use for comparative purposes.  And as you said HS my opinion counts the same as others.  NO more, no less.  Like my vote today!

To date, I've only posted Reviews here of vacuum products that I buy, use and like.   I will probably continue that practice.  Unfortunately, I haven't liked any of the dyson products to date enough to post a Review here. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 4, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #313   Nov 4, 2008 1:53 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello HARDSELL/Dusty:

Your choice of colors is very patriotic.  Is that a reminder to vote.  One month, quarter, year does not make a trend.  Recall it took the oligopoly almost 40 years to get to where it is today.   Honda is poised to do well.  Ta ta to toyota. 

BTW, I did not post a Review on the DC07 pink here.  I suspect mine would bring the star rating down.  Nor do I review any products that I don't care for here on this Site.  However, when I'm asked/read a post that I agree/disagree with about a certain product, I will post here on the discussions.  If that's trashing a product, so be it.  I prefer to call it criticism with charity.  Why?  My star ratings [if fair/poor] don't get tallied in the score, which most readers see and use for comparative purposes.  To date, I've only posted Reviews here of products that I buy, use and like.   And I will probably continue that practice.  Unfortunately, I haven't liked any of the dyson products to date enough to post on the Reviews here. 

Carmine D.


In your original statement that you hastily edited you said that Honda sales were exceeding Toyota's.  Now that I have presented accurate facts you want to do the toilet dance.  Sales are lagging and Toyota is #2 in the U.S. and # 1 in Japan.  Is this like when you told us that Hoover was poised to overtake Dyson?  If I recall Dyson is still standing and Hoover was bailed out.  I am sure glad that Toyota is not poised to do well if your idea of doing well is the same as it was with Hoover.

I know, reviews are useless       unless they favor your argument.  Don't you think all others know that about you by now?  I haven't liked Oreck any more than you like Dyson. 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I see that you have already edited the above post also.  This is the original statement (n red).  It took Hoover how long to get where it was and then it failed.

Hello HARDSELL/Dusty:

You're right HS,  I like to look at market share and stock prices.  But I prefer trends over time.  One month, one quarter, one year doesn't make a meaningful business trend.  It took the oligopoly almost 40 years to get to where it is today.  Same same for sales of vehicles and vacuums. 

I did not post a Review on the DC07 pink here.  I suspect if I were to do so, mine would bring the star rating down.  I do not Review any vacuum products here on this Site that I dislike.  However, when I'm asked and/or I read a post that I agree/disagree with about a certain product, I will post here on the Discussions.  If that's trashing a product, so be it.  Mea culpa.  I prefer to say I offer constructive criticism with charity.  Why?  My star ratings [if fair/poor] don't get tallied in the overall product score, which most readers see and use for comparative purposes.  And as you said HS my opinion counts the same as others.  NO more, no less.  Like my vote today!

To date, I've only posted Reviews here of vacuum products that I buy, use and like.   I will probably continue that practice.  Unfortunately, I haven't liked any of the dyson products to date enough to post a Review here. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #314   Nov 4, 2008 2:22 pm
Hello HARDSELL:

Editing is allowable and easy to do.   I do it often.   I try to make posts stay on topic and improve readabilty for all who post here.  Not just the poster[s] to whom I'm addressing/responding, who may be off topic like you.

One of the reasons I bought the new ORECK was you.  While I was never a huge ORECK fan, tho my dear Wife is, I was struck by your consistent negative and impugning comments [and it cost you nothing after you returned it plus you kept the freebies].  I paid for my new dyson DC07 pink from TARGET, it was not a free refurb.  I gifted it away.  The donee is not using for the same reasons I didn't.  I hope it has collectible value in a few years.

So being suspicious of your ORECK motives, when I was confronted with the opportunity to buy a new ORECK for $150, I did.  Liked it so much I bought and gifted 3 more away.  They are equally impressed with their ORECK-s.  I will keep/upgrade my ORECK XL.  I already gifted away my 2 year old HOOVER WT, which I liked, and will gift away HOOVER TEMPO, which I also like, to a needy cause/person on the Holidays.  But the ORECK is a keeper in large part due to you my good friend.  Thanks. 

Will you ever buy yourself a new dyson?  Now is the time.  Sales are lagging.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 4, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #315   Nov 4, 2008 2:39 pm
This message was modified Nov 4, 2008 by HARDSELL
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #316   Nov 4, 2008 2:45 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello HARDSELL:

Editing is allowable and easy to do.   I do it often.   I try to make posts stay on topic and improve readabilty for all who post here.  Not just the poster[s] to whom I'm addressing/responding, who may be off topic like you.

One of the reasons I bought the new ORECK was you.  While I was never a huge ORECK fan, tho my dear Wife is, I was struck by your consistent negative and impugning comments [and it cost you nothing after you returned it plus you kept the freebies].  I paid for my new dyson DC07 pink from TARGET, it was not a free refurb.  I gifted it away.  The donee is not using for the same reasons I didn't.  I hope it has collectible value in a few years.

So being suspicious of your ORECK motives, when I was confronted with the opportunity to buy a new ORECK for $150, I did.  Liked it so much I bought and gifted 3 more away.  They are equally impressed with their ORECK-s.  I will keep/upgrade my ORECK XL.  I already gifted away my 2 year old HOOVER WT, which I liked, and will gift away HOOVER TEMPO, which I also like, to a needy cause/person on the Holidays.  But the ORECK is a keeper in large part due to you my good friend.  Thanks. 

Will you ever buy yourself a new dyson?  Now is the time.  Sales are lagging.

Carmine D.


Once again you spout off with no facts.  I purchased the Oreck air cleaner when I purchased the XL21.  Returned it all including freebie.  I do not even remember what the freebie was.  That should tell you that I had absolutely no desire to own anything named Oreck.

Seems that Dyson is not the only vac lagging in sales or offering deep discounts.  In fact the local stores do not advertise Dyson discounts nor do they have discounts posted in store.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #317   Nov 4, 2008 5:29 pm
Hello HARDSELL:

Thanks for the info about the ORECK Air Purifier.  I didn't know that factoid.  I'll have to take a closer look at the ORECK purifier now.  I might be in the market.  Is it made in the USA?  

You're not looking hard enough HS but nice to know you're looking.  This week TARGET stores have an advertised sale on the DC24 ball for $399 with a $50 Gift Card withn purchase.  Kohl's has an advertised sale starting tomorrow thru Nov 12 on DC14 and DC17 Animal.  MSRP of $399 and $549 respectively before 10, 15, 20, and/or 30 percent off depending on your mailer.   Just to mention 2 retailers with dyson sales.  Stay tuned.  More to come, I'm sure.  It's not even the Christmas sales season yet. 

Doesn't look like COSTCO will have any dysons on sale for Christmas.  Not sure if they even have them on the shelves anymore.  Like Wal*Mart stores, dysons will be hit or miss.  Probably carry and sell whatever they can get the best deal on from dyson.  New ball models may be on the Web but not in the W*M stores if my source is correct.  Probably DC14 and DC18 models at W*M stores.  These models won't be hot sellers for the Holidays, they're too old.  Those that would buy, bought already.  So they will have to be at really enticing prices.  COSTCO will have the new Electrolux Ergorapido and iRobot Rhooma-s for sale. 

Carmine D. 

This message was modified Nov 4, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #318   Nov 4, 2008 7:51 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello HARDSELL:

Thanks for the info about the ORECK Air Purifier.  I didn't know that factoid.  I'll have to take a closer look at the ORECK purifier now.  I might be in the market.  Is it made in the USA?  

You're not looking hard enough HS but nice to know you're looking.  This week TARGET stores have an advertised sale on the DC24 ball for $399 with a $50 Gift Card withn purchase.  Kohl's has an advertised sale starting tomorrow thru Nov 12 on DC14 and DC17 Animal.  MSRP of $399 and $549 respectively before 10, 15, 20, and/or 30 percent off depending on your mailer.   Just to mention 2 retailers with dyson sales.  Stay tuned.  More to come, I'm sure.  It's not even the Christmas sales season yet. 

Doesn't look like COSTCO will have any dysons on sale for Christmas.  Not sure if they even have them on the shelves anymore.  Like Wal*Mart stores, dysons will be hit or miss.  Probably carry and sell whatever they can get the best deal on from dyson.  New ball models may be on the Web but not in the W*M stores if my source is correct.  Probably DC14 and DC18 models at W*M stores.  These models won't be hot sellers for the Holidays, they're too old.  Those that would buy, bought already.  So they will have to be at really enticing prices.  COSTCO will have the new Electrolux Ergorapido and iRobot Rhooma-s for sale. 

Carmine D. 


I never opened the air cleaner.  I do know others who have used them and found them to be useless ( typical Oreck) I suppose.

Dysons are abundant in TN. It seems that they just have problems with Dysons where ever you live.  Maybe some day you can have the best. Like in Dyson and Lexus.

Tell us what other vacuums are doomed due to them being on sale.

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #319   Nov 4, 2008 8:37 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Wholeheartedly agree Dusty.  Like I said: For "MOST" who buy quality bagged vacuums, the yearly cost of bags are not even on the radar screen.  Not all buyers. 

BTW, glad to hear you say dyson is a niche seller.  I've said that since 2002 when it was launched.  I don't dislike 'dyson' per se.  It's a vacuum.  It's a decent bagless, save the ball dyson models and the hand held.  But dysons in general are [and have been] overpriced, overrated and overengineered.  There are many more much better vacuum choices for the same and/or less price, IMHO.  If that is what you mean when you say I dislike dyson product, then you're absolutely right and I agree.  I'm guilty of the egregious sin of disliking dyson product.  So are many many others.

What should I do for penance?  Wait: I know. I'll petition the Vatican and the Holy Father and ask that...

Re: [Dyson] niche
Dyson is a $1.3 billion revenue making niche.  The most desired and unfortunatly most stolen of all vacuum cleaners niche.  The most copied or reversed engineered of all vacuum technologies niche (in many decades).  The only vacuum manufacturer (in many decades) to create entirely new and rapidly adopted product categories niche's like the 1) clear bin/low with high efficiency cyclonic filtration, 2) steerable’s and 3) hose/wand without the hastle of valve change over.  True, Dyson is not in the many units sold/small margins niche, instead Dyson is a technology creating, technology leading money making monster.        DIB

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ny-lilarc1105,0,7332932.story
This message was modified Nov 5, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #320   Nov 5, 2008 6:46 am
Hello DIB/HS:

HS:You never opened the ORECK purifier to use it before returning.  You relied on other users to return it instead of testing it out yourself.  I see.  Do you use the same practice for buying vacuums and vehicles?  Don't bother to test drive but rely on others to make up your mind for your actions?  You're simply amazing!  But not in a good way like ORECK amazing!  

When I picked up the same KOHL's supplement from today's local newspaper, I noticed that the new DC25 ball model was substituted for the DC17 Animal in the KOHL's ad.  MSRP of $499 before 15, 20, and/or 30 percent off.  Latest and greatest discounted over dyson MAP and not even a Holiday sale.  Amazing!  That's sure to squelch alot of sales by BEST BUY stores of DC25 Animals which launched this week for $549.  I wonder what dyson rep approved that KOHL's dyson model switcheroo?  I know.  It's pay back for BB pulling the old switcheroo of the DC18 for the DC24 on the end cap space!

DIB: I admire your enthusiam for all things dyson and understand your denial about the dyson ball models and dyson niche sales.  We agree to disagree to quote you.  I enjoyed reading the story and the pic with the gentleman stealing a dyson DC14 from a TARGET store.  Thanks for posting.  But again I have to disagree with you on the thief's motive for stealing a dyson vice another brand.  Simple, my friend:  The dyson carton carrying handle!   Easier and more convenient!  I'm sure the thief was thinking: Thank you, dyson! 

I wonder what the felon's punishment will be?  Perhaps vacuuming the TARGET store [first time offender] and/or jail [repeat offender] with a bagged Dirt Devil? 

Here's a call out to the public defender/lawyer who handles the case.  I'll be a defense witness.  I'll provide expert industry evidence that a DC14 is overpriced.  Starting with Consumer Reports, then HS and MH's opinions of a DC14 [not nearly as good as a DC07], then the recent ASA ruling that sanctioned industry tests prove that the Electrolux Infinity's performance [MSRP $299] beats a DC14, and finally Vacuumfreeeke's posts about his purchase of a used DC14 for $100 on ebay.  The man will walk free.  The judge/jury will throw in a free dyson refurb for his trouble.  Why?  The man's sentence will be to vacuum and dump the dirt bin daily for 30 days.  After that, he'll never steal another dyson again.  Even with the nice carton carrying handle.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 5, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #321   Nov 5, 2008 8:09 am
Hey DIB:

A post script to my post on the dyson theft you posted.  I see the defense's case shaping up.  If you look carefully, the gent has money in his left hand.  No doubt cash payment for his dyson purchase, which in his haste to go home and show his dear Wife, caused him to forget to pay.

I'm sure once he realizes his oversight [and sees himself on the news] he'll return to pay in full.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #322   Nov 5, 2008 8:17 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB/HS:

HS:You never opened the ORECK purifier to use it before returning.  You relied on other users to return it instead of testing it out yourself.  I see.  Do you use the same practice for buying vacuums and vehicles?  Don't bother to test drive but rely on others to make up your mind for your actions?  You're simply amazing!  But not in a good way like ORECK amazing!  

When I picked up the same KOHL's supplement from today's local newspaper, I noticed that the new DC25 ball model was substituted for the DC17 Animal in the KOHL's ad.  MSRP of $499 before 15, 20, and/or 30 percent off.  Latest and greatest discounted over dyson MAP and not even a Holiday sale.  Amazing!  That's sure to squelch alot of sales by BEST BUY stores of DC25 Animals which launched this week for $549.  I wonder what dyson rep approved that KOHL's dyson model switcheroo?  I know.  It's pay back for BB pulling the old switcheroo of the DC18 for the DC24 on the end cap space!

DIB: I admire your enthusiam for all things dyson and understand your denial about the dyson ball models and dyson niche sales.  We agree to disagree to quote you.  I enjoyed reading the story and the pic with the gentleman stealing a dyson DC14 from a TARGET store.  Thanks for posting.  But again I have to disagree with you on the thief's motive for stealing a dyson vice another brand.  Simple, my friend:  The dyson carton carrying handle!   Easier and more convenient!  I'm sure the thief was thinking: Thank you, dyson! 

I wonder what the felon's punishment will be?  Perhaps vacuuming the TARGET store [first time offender] and/or jail [repeat offender] with a bagged Dirt Devil? 

Here's a call out to the public defender/lawyer who handles the case.  I'll be a defense witness.  I'll provide expert industry evidence that a DC14 is overpriced.  Starting with Consumer Reports, then HS and MH's opinions of a DC14 [not nearly as good as a DC07], then the recent ASA ruling that sanctioned industry tests prove that the Electrolux Infinity's performance [MSRP $299] beats a DC14, and finally Vacuumfreeeke's posts about his purchase of a used DC14 for $100 on ebay.  The man will walk free.  The judge/jury will throw in a free dyson refurb for his trouble.  Why?  The man's sentence will be to vacuum and dump the dirt bin daily for 30 days.  After that, he'll never steal another dyson again.  Even with the nice carton carrying handle.

Carmine D.



Wrong again Carmine.  I disliked the vacuum so much that I suspected the air cleaner was typical Oreck hype.  I learned about unhappy owners a year or more later.

We all know by now that you give too many opinions without knowing the facts. 

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #323   Nov 5, 2008 8:47 am
Hello HS:

I see. You dislike one product type of a brand so you write off all the brand's products.  Do you use the same logic [some might say illogic] for models within a brand?  For example, you said you don't care for a DC14 hence the reason you didn't buy one and you don't buy any new dyson models?  Apply to vehicles to?  Don't like the Cadillac Cimmaron [overpriced Cavaliar with Cadillac badging], so you dislike the Cadillac El Dorado, Fleetwood?  Use toyota models if you like.  Have to like them all, to buy anyone?  Doesn't leave much room for error.  All or nothing at all.  Simply amazing, my good friend!  Now I know why you call yourself HARDSELL.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 5, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #324   Nov 5, 2008 12:26 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB/HS:

HS:You never opened the ORECK purifier to use it before returning.  You relied on other users to return it instead of testing it out yourself.  I see.  Do you use the same practice for buying vacuums and vehicles?  Don't bother to test drive but rely on others to make up your mind for your actions?  You're simply amazing!  But not in a good way like ORECK amazing!  

When I picked up the same KOHL's supplement from today's local newspaper, I noticed that the new DC25 ball model was substituted for the DC17 Animal in the KOHL's ad.  MSRP of $499 before 15, 20, and/or 30 percent off.  Latest and greatest discounted over dyson MAP and not even a Holiday sale.  Amazing!  That's sure to squelch alot of sales by BEST BUY stores of DC25 Animals which launched this week for $549.  I wonder what dyson rep approved that KOHL's dyson model switcheroo?  I know.  It's pay back for BB pulling the old switcheroo of the DC18 for the DC24 on the end cap space!

DIB: I admire your enthusiam for all things dyson and understand your denial about the dyson ball models and dyson niche sales.  We agree to disagree to quote you.  I enjoyed reading the story and the pic with the gentleman stealing a dyson DC14 from a TARGET store.  Thanks for posting.  But again I have to disagree with you on the thief's motive for stealing a dyson vice another brand.  Simple, my friend:  The dyson carton carrying handle!   Easier and more convenient!  I'm sure the thief was thinking: Thank you, dyson!

DIB replied:  You had no response to my niche inroads Dyson enjoys. What is not a niche but obvious is the global shaping Dyson has contributed. Dyson is responsible for the clear bin type bagless phenomenon which is probably 50% of the worlds vacuum market. I'll say it again and all say it a little differently... any manufacturer running a clear bin on a vacuum is doing so because of James Dyson.

There is plenty of documentation (online news sources, police reports, video, images) of Dyson's and only Dyson's being the number one stolen vacuum. I've posted many times and from many different news sources demonstrating these Dyson thefts, yet you deny it. - You can deny it, you cannot disprove it.

I wonder what the felon's punishment will be?  Perhaps vacuuming the TARGET store [first time offender] and/or jail [repeat offender] with a bagged Dirt Devil? 

Here's a call out to the public defender/lawyer who handles the case.  I'll be a defense witness.  I'll provide expert industry evidence that a DC14 is overpriced.  Starting with Consumer Reports, then HS and MH's opinions of a DC14 [not nearly as good as a DC07], then the recent ASA ruling that sanctioned industry tests prove that the Electrolux Infinity's performance [MSRP $299] beats a DC14, and finally Vacuumfreeeke's posts about his purchase of a used DC14 for $100 on ebay.  The man will walk free.  The judge/jury will throw in a free dyson refurb for his trouble.  Why?  The man's sentence will be to vacuum and dump the dirt bin daily for 30 days.  After that, he'll never steal another dyson again.  Even with the nice carton carrying handle.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 5, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #325   Nov 5, 2008 3:04 pm
Hello DIB:

The first clear dirt bin I recall in the USA vacuum market goes to the EUREKA bagless Whirlwind.  I'm sure you'll say EUREKA copied dyson, which at the time was still a homegrown UK product.  Note now that EUREKA's latest Capture uprights use color tinted bins to accent the color schemes of the vacuums.  I like the latter better than the nasty clear bins.   Did dyson ever sue over the copying?

I do recall you posting about several dyson vacuum thefts.  Matt mmc AirBlade even used this as the excuse for KOHL's stores to stock dysons in the warehouses rather than on the shelves.  I have to wonder what kind of person would risk stealing vacuums, even your fave brand of dysons.   Any answers/intelligence forthcoming to the question?  Has dyson taken any actions to preempt the pilferage?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 5, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #326   Nov 5, 2008 4:15 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB:

The first clear dirt bin I recall in the USA vacuum market goes to the EUREKA bagless Whirlwind.  I'm sure you'll say EUREKA copied dyson, which at the time was still a homegrown UK product.  Note now that EUREKA's latest Capture uprights use color tinted bins to accent the color schemes of the vacuums.  I like the latter better than the nasty clear bins.   Did dyson ever sue over the copying?

DIB replies: Carmine, all cyclonic clear bins are based on Dyson's work. 50% of today's market use Dyson's discovery. This phantom or make-believe Eureka clear dirt bin you speak of as yet to come up amongst collectors and patents. The historian I spoke to of this question said there was a sight glass but no clear bin or clear cyclonic bin prior to Dyson. It is what it is.

I do recall you posting about several dyson vacuum thefts.  Matt mmc AirBlade even used this as the excuse for KOHL's stores to stock dysons in the warehouses rather than on the shelves.  I have to wonder what kind of person would risk stealing vacuums, even your fave brand of dysons.   Any answers/intelligence forthcoming to the question?  Has dyson taken any actions to preempt the pilferage?

DIB replies: Carmine, feel free to get into the psyche of thieves and what motivates them. All I know is what is evident, it's good for most but not you.

Carmine D.


 Here's a link to vacuum theft at Bed Bath. While it does not state if they were Dyson's, in the past  Dyson's were frequently stolen from Bed Bath and made news...
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20081103/NEWS05/811030310/1002/NEWS

More...
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080924/NEWS01/809240375/1043/NEWS01
This message was modified Nov 5, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #327   Nov 5, 2008 5:21 pm
Hello DIB:

Sight glass in a dirt bin?  Never heard of it.  Any proof forthcoming?  Perhaps a model name/number?  Lest your historical source be confused with the clear soft plastic on the Lewyt Speed Saks from the 50's.  

I presume, not sure so I asked, that you are making a point that even among thieves dysons are in demand.  Concluding that this is proof of their sales popularity/success.  This suggests that you, based on thieves' actions and motives, impute intrinsic value to dyson vacuums as marketable commodities.  They're vacuums, not works of art.  My thoughts on the matter are that dyson vacuums are overpriced.  And the thieves [especially those who are caught on surveillance cameras] are not very bright. 

I have a rhetorical corollary question to your hypothesis.  If thieves who steal dysons are not too bright then what does one conclude about the people who buy them?

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 5, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #328   Nov 5, 2008 5:53 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB:

Sight glass in a dirt bin?  Never heard of it.  Any proof forthcoming?  Perhaps a model name/number?  Must be confused with the clear soft plastic on the Lewyt Speed Saks from the 50's.  The EUREKA Whirlwind bagless used a clear dirt bin long before dysons hit the USA.  In fact, with yellow/black [depending on the model] bin components [same as your fave brand].  Perhaps your unnamed source is too young to remember?  Or too old, and forgot?

Here's my thoughts about motivations [thieves aside].  You posted on several occasions here about dyson thefts as did Matt mmc Airblade.  I presume, but not sure so I asked, to make a point that even among thieves dysons are in demand.  Somehow presuming that is proof for their popularity and success.  I have difficulty with an extrapolation that is based on thieves' actions and motives: That dyson vacuum thefts are tied to intrinsic value of them as commodities.  They're vacuums.  The only underlying point for their pilferage is that they are overpriced.  And thieves [especially those caught on surveillance cameras] are not too bright.

Carmine D.


Hello Carmine,

In you are professional opinion, the clear low efficiency bin that's on 50% of all vacuums sold today are based on the Eureka Whirlwind and not on the success of Dyson's discoveries and popularity?

 Overpriced is an opinion, being  so-called "overpriced" is not reason enough to steal Dyson's. Demand for his technology is.

Below is a link to a husband and wife team who advertise and/or auction Dyson's on eBay, get an order, go to Target and steal the vacuum/s, only to drive directly to UPS to ship the stolen vacuums.  Something some say here is not happening.  Watch for the video clip too.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=a212ce44-acef-41cb-807b-eaaf9d6b54f6
 
This message was modified Nov 5, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #329   Nov 5, 2008 6:04 pm
Hi DIB:

Clear bagless dirt bins are based on practicality:  Wanting to see the dirt inside the bin to know when to dump.  Nothing to do with whose first and who copied whom. 

I see your point now.  Let me paraphrase:  Thieves steal dyson vacuums because they understand the underlying value of dyson technology [intrinsic is the word I used] and want to profit by it.  It's not the fact that dysons are overpriced and the thieves are not very bright.  

I disagree with you.  Vacuum thieves could care less about innovation, root technology, shrouds and clear bins.  You may care and want to impute your feelings into their motives.  Then further conclude that their actions are proof of dyson's success and popuIarity.  I find it all laughable.  Sadly, you don't.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 5, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #330   Nov 5, 2008 7:20 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB:

Sight glass in a dirt bin?  Never heard of it.  Any proof forthcoming?  Perhaps a model name/number?  Lest your historical source be confused with the clear soft plastic on the Lewyt Speed Saks from the 50's.  

I presume, not sure so I asked, that you are making a point that even among thieves dysons are in demand.  Concluding that this is proof of their sales popularity/success.  This suggests that you, based on thieves' actions and motives, impute intrinsic value to dyson vacuums as marketable commodities.  They're vacuums, not works of art.  My thoughts on the matter are that dyson vacuums are overpriced.  And the thieves [especially those who are caught on surveillance cameras] are not very bright. 

I have a rhetorical corollary question to your hypothesis.  If thieves who steal dysons are not too bright then what does one conclude about the people who buy them?

Carmine D.


Actually the thieves are brighter than you Carmine.  If you had a shovel and a lawn mower in your yard do you think the thief would take the shovel and leave the mower.  Most thieves are buying for a hasty resale.

Now do I steal a $59 Hoover and get $10 for taking the chance or do I stesl a $400 Dyson and sell it for $50 to $100.

Persons buying Dysons have a superior intelligence to those buying electric brooms.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #331   Nov 6, 2008 6:01 am
Hello HARDSELL/DIB:

I beg to differ with you HS.  If the vacuum thieves had superior intelligence and were bright, as you say, they would figure out a way to take $50 vacuums and sell them for $400.   Not the other way around.  James did the former.   He's bright.  He does it legally.  Very good marketing and cheap [Mal] ASIAN  labor.  

The thieves in these stories are doing the latter.  Stealing $400 plus vacuums with all the risks and legal consequences to sell for $50 to $100 [your prices].  Probably asking prices.  More like $25-$50 cash in these hard economic times, if and when the thieves can find buyers.  Especially with the dyson refurb market legally pricing for $150 plus on the Internet.  The risk now legally is not worth the little reward.   Especially for vacuums!  No resale/entertainment value!   

Sorry dyson campers, I don't impute/conclude any esoteric motives and meanings to the vacuum thefts as you like to do.  To me, just stupidity and the gullibility of the thieves who are also duped by all the hawking/hyping to risk life and limb for chump change. 

Here's my conclusions on the thefts:  James Dyson has single handedly spawned a brand new criminal enterprise in fenced dysons by selling overpriced vacuums in big box retail stores.  What is he/dyson doing to preempt the pilferage?  Surely, a smart man and company with billions will not let itself be outwitted by a few dumb desperate felons.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Actually the thieves are brighter than you Carmine.  If you had a shovel and a lawn mower in your yard do you think the thief would take the shovel and leave the mower.  Most thieves are buying for a hasty resale.
Actually, my friend you're not [very bright].  Here's a true answer to your question.  Think....I live in the desert.  Grass doesn't grow in the desert.  There's no rain/water.  My yard is sand, rock, and stones.  I don't own a lawnmower.  I own a shovel.  So, the thief by default would have to steal the shovel.  
This message was modified Nov 6, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #332   Nov 6, 2008 12:51 pm
Carmine,

Your unending attempts to re-define reality in the name of bad-mouthing Dyson the man, the company and products would be funny if you were not serious, but you are.  Slaving to Dyson envy and jealousy is not serving you well.        DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #333   Nov 6, 2008 1:52 pm
Hello DIB/HS

Back at you my friends.  It is what it is.  Sooner or later you'll take off your dyson color glasses and accept reality.  Ball models and DC18 are dead/dying.  Niche vacuum seller if it survives the current economic sunami.  Lagging/lackluster sales for this year compared to last and beyond into the foreseeable future.  Forbes list of billionaires for 2008 and beyond...your [DIB] fave measurement of business success .....I wouldn't bet the dyson Engineering High School after this year and this year is still an uncertainty.   Even with dyson as the primary source of the Forbes information. 

DIB:  When you upgrade your 3 year old DC15 ball model [you paid $300] with a new DC25, that you rave about so much, please let us know.  HS:  I've given up asking you when you will buy a new dyson.   There is a higher probably that I'll buy a second new dyson before you ever buy your very first.  And that I would bet the dyson Engineering High School on.  If in the highly unlikely case you were to buy a dyson before me, this is certainly the appropriate place to say.   It would be "NEWS."

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 6, 2008 by CarmineD
Severus


If my vacuum can remove even one spec of dirt that yours misses, then mine is better than yours - even if there's no proof that mine would have picked up as much dirt as yours...

Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 397

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #334   Nov 6, 2008 5:38 pm
Hello DIB:

I believe Rainbow has been using a clear bin for a very long time - long before Dyson.  It is ridiculous to argue about a clear dirt container.  Clear containers have been used for food containers and other applications for years.  Who knows where James Dyson "stole" the idea for a clear container originated - it's irrelevant.  

James Dyson is trained as a graphics artist.  He accomplished 2 things - the no loss of suction dirt collection container, and he made a vacuum that has a unique trendy look.  His vacuums don't clean any better than other vacuums, because of design flaws unrelated to constant air flow.  When Dyson finds a cure for cancer, artificial limbs, an artificial heart/lungs, or cure for some other disease, perhaps the rest of us will hoist him up on your pedestal. 

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

The first clear dirt bin I recall in the USA vacuum market goes to the EUREKA bagless Whirlwind.  I'm sure you'll say EUREKA copied dyson, which at the time was still a homegrown UK product.  Note now that EUREKA's latest Capture uprights use color tinted bins to accent the color schemes of the vacuums.  I like the latter better than the nasty clear bins.   Did dyson ever sue over the copying?





The smart tyrant writes his own story to ensure that it is favorable.  The lazy will repeat lines from the book without fact checking. 
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #335   Nov 6, 2008 7:11 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello HARDSELL/DIB:

I beg to differ with you HS.  If the vacuum thieves had superior intelligence and were bright, as you say, they would figure out a way to take $50 vacuums and sell them for $400.   Not the other way around.  James did the former.   He's bright.  He does it legally.  Very good marketing and cheap [Mal] ASIAN  labor.  

The thieves in these stories are doing the latter.  Stealing $400 plus vacuums with all the risks and legal consequences to sell for $50 to $100 [your prices].  Probably asking prices.  More like $25-$50 cash in these hard economic times, if and when the thieves can find buyers.  Especially with the dyson refurb market legally pricing for $150 plus on the Internet.  The risk now legally is not worth the little reward.   Especially for vacuums!  No resale/entertainment value!   

Sorry dyson campers, I don't impute/conclude any esoteric motives and meanings to the vacuum thefts as you like to do.  To me, just stupidity and the gullibility of the thieves who are also duped by all the hawking/hyping to risk life and limb for chump change. 

Here's my conclusions on the thefts:  James Dyson has single handedly spawned a brand new criminal enterprise in fenced dysons by selling overpriced vacuums in big box retail stores.  What is he/dyson doing to preempt the pilferage?  Surely, a smart man and company with billions will not let itself be outwitted by a few dumb desperate felons.

Carmine D.

Actually, my friend you're not [very bright].  Here's a true answer to your question.  Think....I live in the desert.  Grass doesn't grow in the desert.  There's no rain/water.  My yard is sand, rock, and stones.  I don't own a lawnmower.  I own a shovel.  So, the thief by default would have to steal the shovel.  


Actually Carmine there was never any doubt that you live under a rock.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #336   Nov 7, 2008 6:48 am
Hello HARDSELL:

Correct my friend: The Rock of Ages!  

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 7, 2008 by CarmineD
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #337   Nov 7, 2008 8:09 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello HARDSELL:

Correct my friend: The Rock of Ages!  

Carmine D.



Such a wonderful rock.  No better place to live.  Have a good day.
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #338   Nov 7, 2008 8:27 am
HARDSELL wrote:

Such a wonderful rock.  No better place to live.  Have a good day.

Pax tecum.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 7, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #339   Nov 8, 2008 7:23 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB/HS

Back at you my friends.  It is what it is.  Sooner or later you'll take off your dyson color glasses and accept reality.  Ball models and DC18 are dead/dying.  Niche vacuum seller if it survives the current economic sunami.  Lagging/lackluster sales for this year compared to last and beyond into the foreseeable future.  Forbes list of billionaires for 2008 and beyond...your [DIB] fave measurement of business success .....I wouldn't bet the dyson Engineering High School after this year and this year is still an uncertainty.   Even with dyson as the primary source of the Forbes information. 

DIB replies:   Sorry to disappoint, the DC18 according to Airblade was a big seller and so it is kept in the line but is now called the DC 25. Yes I know they're different machines but they do exactly the same thing in terms of function (with the exception of an additional 20 more air watts for the 25). To suggest otherwise would be an opinion and nothing more. And to suggest Dyson is not exposed like most during the economies troubles this to would be and opinion.

DIB:  When you upgrade your 3 year old DC15 ball model [you paid $300] with a new DC25, that you rave about so much, please let us know.  HS:  I've given up asking you when you will buy a new dyson.   There is a higher probably that I'll buy a second new dyson before you ever buy your very first.  And that I would bet the dyson Engineering High School on.  If in the highly unlikely case you were to buy a dyson before me, this is certainly the appropriate place to say.   It would be "NEWS."

DIB replies:   Purchasing a demo and then driving it into the ground in my home and in my garage proves the Dyson is bullet proof. And I will continue to drive into the ground until it fails.

Re: The success of the DC25...  I suggest you telephone Miele and Hoover Candy to answer your Dyson steerable contention.

Carmine D.




CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #340   Nov 8, 2008 7:31 am
Hi DIB:

Glad to hear you found the perfect niche for a 3 year old, discountinued, discounted DC15 dyson ball: The garage.   I find irony in this.  Why?  Garages are for autos which share the quintessential feature that you like to talk up so much about all dyson ball models: Steerability! 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 8, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #341   Nov 8, 2008 8:13 am
Hello DIB:

I believe Rainbow has been using a clear bin for a very long time - long before Dyson.  It is ridiculous to argue about a clear dirt container.  Clear containers have been used for food containers and other applications for years.  Who knows where James Dyson "stole" the idea for a clear container originated - it's irrelevant.  

DIB replies:   Instead of  "believing", why not belly up with some photos. I'm no collector but you are, as your buddies are too, it should be easy to locate this vacuum that predates Dyson's clear low efficiency cyclonic bin. To suggest food containers (or alike) could be a source that Dyson "stole" is lame. - This is an excuse to print "Dyson" and "stole" in the same line.  The only thing ridiculous is the amount of money Dyson made from being smart and smarter than every manufacturer on the planet when he included his clear low efficiency cyclonic bin. And it is ridiculously wild to see how widely and globally this bin was eventually adapted and now is a standard.  Globally, vacuum manufacturers are running Dyson-like bins and not running jam jars.

 Re: irrelevant. Carmen made a claim Dyson was a niche product and that he predicted it back in 2002. I expounded on the definition of niche. Carmen responded. And you say it's irrelevant. I guess we should all stop, go back, ponder and relive your boomerang Bissell stick post.  Certainly there is much revelant there and is more revelvant than talking of the global adoption of Dyson success.

James Dyson is trained as a graphics artist.  He accomplished 2 things - the no loss of suction dirt collection container, and he made a vacuum that has a unique trendy look.  His vacuums don't clean any better than other vacuums, because of design flaws unrelated to constant air flow.  When Dyson finds a cure for cancer, artificial limbs, an artificial heart/lungs, or cure for some other disease, perhaps the rest of us will hoist him up on your pedestal. 

DIB replies:   Look, many (not all) vacuum collectors typically get bent out of shape over Dyson's success. I say they're envious, what say you?

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

The first clear dirt bin I recall in the USA vacuum market goes to the EUREKA bagless Whirlwind.  I'm sure you'll say EUREKA copied dyson, which at the time was still a homegrown UK product.  Note now that EUREKA's latest Capture uprights use color tinted bins to accent the color schemes of the vacuums.  I like the latter better than the nasty clear bins.   Did dyson ever sue over the copying?




CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #342   Nov 8, 2008 8:38 am
Hello DIB:

 You write: "Dyson was a niche product".   A Freudian slip/prophesy? 

Niche product is nice.  Not derogatory as you and some other dyson campers like to infer.  No umbrage should be taken.   Several successful and storied vacuum brands are niches:  Filter Queen, Rainbow, and Kirby just to mention a few.  Of course, unlike your brand, these brands have been in business for many years and have weathered good and bad economic times and still.   At least so far.  A prerequisite for rightfully and correctly claiming success.  But things change as we witnessed with several of the financial icons on Wall Street.  Still as you, I would presume, would not want to be counted out/laid to rest while still having a pulse and heart beat, even if ever so faint/shallow, so it is true too, I believe, with your fave brand. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 8, 2008 by CarmineD
M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #343   Nov 9, 2008 8:11 am
There's been a recent Dyson patent filing detailing a drinks vending machine for domestic use, following up a previous filing by the company in this area.

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?KC=A&date=20081105&NR=2448934A&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_GB&CC=GB&FT=D

This details a product with a smaller profile, reduced manufacturing costs and low maintenance. It would seem almost certain this would involve a digital motor along the way.

I'd say there's a high probability of this product reaching market in the next 12 months. The technical illustrations for the patents show production quality parts - not simply theory on how they might do something.

I've noticed a steady increase of this type of appliance in people's homes over the last 5 years. I've considered it myself, but have been put off by perceived cost, energy and space considerations - so certainly, there's room for improvements.

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #344   Nov 9, 2008 10:02 am
M00seUK wrote:
There's been a recent Dyson patent filing detailing a drinks vending machine for domestic use, following up a previous filing by the company in this area.

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?KC=A&date=20081105&NR=2448934A&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_GB&CC=GB&FT=D

This details a product with a smaller profile, reduced manufacturing costs and low maintenance. It would seem almost certain this would involve a digital motor along the way.

I'd say there's a high probability of this product reaching market in the next 12 months. The technical illustrations for the patents show production quality parts - not simply theory on how they might do something.

I've noticed a steady increase of this type of appliance in people's homes over the last 5 years. I've considered it myself, but have been put off by perceived cost, energy and space considerations - so certainly, there's room for improvements.


Moose,
There is much more detail on the US patent application. You might want to check it out. One would imagine Dyson applying his small motor technology (the DDM) in appliances to reduce the size or use its speed gains (typically), but I do not see the DDM and controller with its higher costs inside this box. Dyson also mentions keeping costs down on this appliance.

I am not familiar with these dispensers. Can you link a couple to this thread so I can take a look?

 Thanks,
 DIB

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=dyson.AS.&OS=an/dyson&RS=AN/dyson
This message was modified Nov 9, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #345   Nov 9, 2008 10:36 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hi DIB:

Glad to hear you found the perfect niche for a 3 year old, discountinued, discounted DC15 dyson ball: The garage.   I find irony in this.  Why?  Garages are for autos which share the quintessential feature that you like to talk up so much about all dyson ball models: Steerability! 

Carmine D.


  Hello Carmine,

 In typical fashion you twist my words. Did I say my DC15 has been relegated to the garage? The DC15 serves double duty both in my garage and home. I am beating on it deliberately. This way I can say honestly these things are bulletproof and can run well past its five-year warranty (projectied based on what I've seen thus far). It is going on 4 years old.

DIB


M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #346   Nov 9, 2008 11:41 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Moose,
There is much more detail on the US patent application. You might want to check it out. One would imagine Dyson applying his small motor technology (the DDM) in appliances to reduce the size or use its speed gains (typically), but I do not see the DDM and controller with its higher costs inside this box. Dyson also mentions keeping costs down on this appliance.

I am not familiar with these dispensers. Can you link a couple to this thread so I can take a look?

 Thanks,
 DIB

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=dyson.AS.&OS=an/dyson&RS=AN/dyson

Thanks - I can't see any more written detail on the US patent doc and the images are not showing for me, so I can't really add anything.

I'm of the presumption that Dyson are of the thinking "What appliances use motors that might benefit a more efficient motor part?". I'm not at all familiar with drinks dispensers, but presumably you need a motor to create air pressure and also grind / mix ingredients. If a Dyson digital motor *was* to be used, it would like be a smaller than the version used on the Airblade drier. As you say, there might not be any benefit at all and they would simply use one off the shelf.

So, what we're looking at is :-

  • Small, self-contained profile
  • Grinder / milk foamier optional
  • 1-2 selectable hoppers for coffee / coco ingredients
  • Nozzle and cup shelf retract flush when not required

This is the type of product I'm thinking of:-

http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/290734/JURA-IMPRESSA-Z5

That is the top of the range model from this retailer, at 1595 GBP. An entry level version sells for 595 GBP.

Certainly, they're getting ever popular, the margins are there and there's efficiencies to be made in terms of size.

There's also market share potential in the commercial space. The café near my office is pushed for working space, with fair-sized espresso machine taking up room. At my local independent pub, coffee is made from a small machine with pre-prepared espresso 'capsules'. Again, they're pushed for space, but a machine of the design proposed by Dyson might work well.

Venson


Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #347   Nov 9, 2008 11:56 am
Hi,

Miele and, I believe, Bosch have it on the market in "capsule" and built-in form. However, the prices make my good old Krups bean grinder and Bodum coffee maker look awful good to me

http://www.miele.com/products/models.asp?cat=5&subcat=30&menu_id=22&nav=20&snav=90&tnav=96&oT=188

http://www.miele.com/products/models.asp?cat=5&subcat=28&menu_id=9&nav=20&snav=90&tnav=93&oT=187

Venson
This message was modified Nov 9, 2008 by Venson
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #348   Nov 9, 2008 1:14 pm
Hello DIB:

Sorry to misunderstand and misquote.  So it would appear if the discounted, 4 year old dyson DC15 ball is doing double duty, a new dyson ball model exclusively for household use is out of the question?  I really thought with all honesty and good intentions that you "relegated" the DC15 to the garage so you could replace it with a new dyson in your home.  Especially with the way you rave non-stop about the ball and steerability.  I envisioned you upgrading the ball models with each new dyson entrant.  As a dyson devotee like you would most likely want to do.  I mistook your praise here for putting your money where your words are.  My apologies. 

Carmine

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #349   Nov 9, 2008 1:21 pm
M00seUK wrote:
Thanks - I can't see any more written detail on the US patent doc and the images are not showing for me, so I can't really add anything.

I'm of the presumption that Dyson are of the thinking "What appliances use motors that might benefit a more efficient motor part?". I'm not at all familiar with drinks dispensers, but presumably you need a motor to create air pressure and also grind / mix ingredients. If a Dyson digital motor *was* to be used, it would like be a smaller than the version used on the Airblade drier. As you say, there might not be any benefit at all and they would simply use one off the shelf.

So, what we're looking at is :-

  • Small, self-contained profile
  • Grinder / milk foamier optional
  • 1-2 selectable hoppers for coffee / coco ingredients
  • Nozzle and cup shelf retract flush when not required

This is the type of product I'm thinking of:-

http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/290734/JURA-IMPRESSA-Z5

That is the top of the range model from this retailer, at 1595 GBP. An entry level version sells for 595 GBP.

Certainly, they're getting ever popular, the margins are there and there's efficiencies to be made in terms of size.

There's also market share potential in the commercial space. The café near my office is pushed for working space, with fair-sized espresso machine taking up room. At my local independent pub, coffee is made from a small machine with pre-prepared espresso 'capsules'. Again, they're pushed for space, but a machine of the design proposed by Dyson might work well.


Moose,

 If you go to the bottom of the front page of the Dyson application, you will see a lengthy description. As you can see/experience firsthand the United States government in my opinion has made searching patents difficult or more difficult than need be. Patent images they are in the TIFF format. Assuming you’re using a Macintosh I provided a free tiff viewer plug-in link below.

 You’re right, the dispenser could be both commercial and residential. I did not read but just a few paragraphs on the patent, I did see one of the major components is the ability to retract or telescope the dispenser nozzle back into the appliance itself which is space-saving (per the Dyson patent app.)

DIB

www.acordex.com/browseProd/VTplugin.html
This message was modified Nov 9, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #350   Nov 9, 2008 1:54 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
  Hello Carmine,

 In typical fashion you twist my words. Did I say my DC15 has been relegated to the garage? The DC15 serves double duty both in my garage and home. I am beating on it deliberately. This way I can say honestly these things are bulletproof and can run well past its five-year warranty (projectied based on what I've seen thus far). It is going on 4 years old.

DIB

WARNING!!  DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME WITH YOUR ORECK.
M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #351   Nov 9, 2008 3:33 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Moose,

 If you go to the bottom of the front page of the Dyson application, you will see a lengthy description. As you can see/experience firsthand the United States government in my opinion has made searching patents difficult or more difficult than need be. Patent images they are in the TIFF format. Assuming you’re using a Macintosh I provided a free tiff viewer plug-in link below.

 You’re right, the dispenser could be both commercial and residential. I did not read but just a few paragraphs on the patent, I did see one of the major components is the ability to retract or telescope the dispenser nozzle back into the appliance itself which is space-saving (per the Dyson patent app.)

DIB

www.acordex.com/browseProd/VTplugin.html

Thanks DIB, I installed the plug-in, although I couldn't see anything that wasn't in the other patent write up.

What I think is *shocking* is that US patent site requiring people to download an  obscure browser plug-in to view those TIFF images. I mean, storing documents as TIFFs is perfectly fine, but serving them up on a web site, when web browsers don't supporting them by default is terrible! Given US citizens file a large number patents, they deserve better.

Although I'm being all self-righteous because my own web site goes to great lengths to automatically convert images in to easily readable formats! :-p
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #352   Nov 9, 2008 5:27 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
WARNING!!  DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME WITH YOUR ORECK.

... that's true.


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #353   Nov 10, 2008 7:13 am
HARDSELL wrote:
WARNING!!  DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME WITH YOUR ORECK.
DysonInventsBig wrote:
... that's true.


Hello DIB/HS:

Not!.  I've posted here before, I believe, if not, here it is now.  I typically run my ORECK upright over the garage floor [where I have both cement/rug coverings], apron to the driveway [cement], backyard patio [cement/rug coverings], and walkway from the front to side door of the house [cement save a huge front door indoor/outdoor welcome rug].  Why?  It's an excellent barefloor cleaner with excellent edge cleaning.  Beats cleaning these areas any other way.  And voila, no problems steering!

Last week, I performed some outdoor maintenence to the stucco finish my home.  Repair/paint small cracks that developed after house settling.  Typically these repairs cause excess stucco finish [read tiny cement bits and pieces] to fall off and down on the ground.  To do the clean up on the walkway and patio, I went for my ORECK upright, which was the closest and handiest vacuum to get to!  And works the best for this cleaning job.  Simply amazing!

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 10, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #354   Nov 10, 2008 2:03 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB:

Sorry to misunderstand and misquote.

DIB replies:  No problem.

So it would appear if the discounted, 4 year old dyson DC15 ball is doing double duty, a new dyson ball model exclusively for household use is out of the question?  I really thought with all honesty and good intentions that you "relegated" the DC15 to the garage so you could replace it with a new dyson in your home.  Especially with the way you rave non-stop about the ball and steerability.  I envisioned you upgrading the ball models with each new dyson entrant.  As a dyson devotee like you would most likely want to do.  I mistook your praise here for putting your money where your words are.  My apologies. 

DIB replies:     Resorting to psychology? -- nice try. You have "run the boards" and have so for years with your unending complaints of your very short lived and use of the Dyson DC07. Out of curiosity how long did you own and/or use this machine? And why didn't you tweak it to make it work great on your carpets? Certainly tweaking a vacuum would be more fun than all the part swapping you've done, don't you think?

 Re: my DC15 pulling double duty...  When I do not purchase all products from Dyson are you somehow trying to discount my sincerity of me supporting innovators such as Dyson? I never had the desire to own the DC18, DC24 or DC25. Why? Because I'm happy using my DC15 and I want to purposely use it for years only so I can discount others when they talk trash of Dyson durability in many (not all) of his great products. The Dyson Airblade easily proves out as the worlds best filtering/dryng hand dryer, yet I will not be purchasing this product either.

Carmine


 Also...   have you seen David Oreck's latest XL Platinum television commercial? He is attempting to make it look as if this antiquated chassis (Murray Spangler-type) has steering.  He "borrowed" the Dave Shimkus demonstration where Dave twists and turns Dyson steerable's over hard surfaces littered with coffee grounds. Certainly Dave Shimkus is not the first to vacuum up coffee grounds. He is the world's first to leave a clean slalom-like or s-shaped path through coffee grounds using the world's only highly reactive steerable (a nozzle that reacts in concert to  "wrist steer"; that is, Dyson's Ball line and Slim).

You will see Oreck make a swivelable and many others too, due to the Dyson DC15 but mostly due to the Slim proving out/carving out this new "steerable" and profitable market.

DIB


mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 772

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #355   Nov 10, 2008 2:16 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:


You will see Oreck make a swivelable and many others too, due to the Dyson DC15 but mostly due to the Slim proving out/carving out this new "steerable" and profitable market.

DIB

Aerus/Electrolux,has had an easy steer powerhead since 1993, it came out on the 6500 series canister,I will say its the biggest problemmatic piece they ever made,Quite frankly its 40% of my repair business.


I hope Dyson knows about the durability factor  of his set up.

GOOD LUCK

MOLE
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #356   Nov 10, 2008 2:38 pm
mole wrote:
Aerus/Electrolux,has had an easy steer powerhead since 1993, it came out on the 6500 series canister,I will say its the biggest problemmatic piece they ever made,Quite frankly its 40% of my repair business.


I hope Dyson knows about the durability factor  of his set up.

GOOD LUCK

MOLE

 Mole,

Are you talking about the simple swivel bend/union like on pn's and floor nozzles or something more?  Dyson could of and should of produced an interesting and helpful turning mechanism on their DC21 but it failed for many reasons (IMO).

DIB
This message was modified Nov 10, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #357   Nov 10, 2008 4:57 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Moose,

 If you go to the bottom of the front page of the Dyson application, you will see a lengthy description. As you can see/experience firsthand the United States government in my opinion has made searching patents difficult or more difficult than need be. Patent images they are in the TIFF format. Assuming you’re using a Macintosh I provided a free tiff viewer plug-in link below.

 You’re right, the dispenser could be both commercial and residential. I did not read but just a few paragraphs on the patent, I did see one of the major components is the ability to retract or telescope the dispenser nozzle back into the appliance itself which is space-saving (per the Dyson patent app.)

DIB

www.acordex.com/browseProd/VTplugin.html

M00seUK wrote:
Thanks DIB, I installed the plug-in, although I couldn't see anything that wasn't in the other patent write up.

What I think is *shocking* is that US patent site requiring people to download an  obscure browser plug-in to view those TIFF images. I mean, storing documents as TIFFs is perfectly fine, but serving them up on a web site, when web browsers don't supporting them by default is terrible! Given US citizens file a large number patents, they deserve better.

Although I'm being all self-righteous because my own web site goes to great lengths to automatically convert images in to easily readable formats! :-p

Thanks DIB, I installed the plug-in, although I couldn't see anything that wasn't in the other patent write up.

What I think is *shocking* is that US patent site requiring people to download an  obscure browser plug-in to view those TIFF images. I mean, storing documents as TIFFs is perfectly fine, but serving them up on a web site, when web browsers don't supporting them by default is terrible! Given US citizens file a large number patents, they deserve better.

Although I'm being all self-righteous because my own web site goes to great lengths to automatically convert images in to easily readable formats! :-p


Moose,

 Patents on file at the USPTO are nothing more than archived documents. It is my strong belief that the US government has made patent searching much more difficult than need be. - Which certainly favors the patent lawyer industry, the wealthy or wealthy and powerful corporations (i.e. keeps competing inventions down to a minimum). I can see the logic behind not wanting novice patent filings and wasting patent office man hours on such. I do not see the logic, fairness or how our nation is benefited by making patent searching difficult. Our country needs backyard inventors to see if they have a patentable widget and who the competition is (if any) and what they have patented. Many, many, many, huge corporations started out or started with a backyard inventor which ultimately prospered creating much wealth and jobs.  Turning the “backyard inventor faucet” off (by making the invention process hard) is pure stupidity for our nations overall success.   DIB 
This message was modified Nov 10, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #358   Nov 10, 2008 5:16 pm
DIB replies:     Resorting to psychology? -- nice try. You have "run the boards" and have so for years with your unending complaints of your very short lived and use of the Dyson DC07. Out of curiosity how long did you own and/or use this machine? And why didn't you tweak it to make it work great on your carpets? Certainly tweaking a vacuum would be more fun than all the part swapping you've done, don't you think?

Hi DIB:

No pschology save past experience in the business with customers.  Vacuum buyers anxious to purchase the latest and greatest typically "relegate" the current user to the upstairs, downstairs and/or garage for convenience.  It is a legitimate excuse [convenience] to upgrade if you only have one vacuum.  Most US households have more than one vacuum.

WRT dyson 07 pink, I've addressed the questions and concerns you ask here in the past.  Not in the Reviews, but in  posts.  I'll summarize for you here again.  If you have further questions you can message me offline.  I'll be happy to provide more details.  The design and function of the DC07 is not suited for my current rugs.  This was confirmed by the dyson helpline and technicians in several telephone calls who told me to return it to TARGET.  [Also confimed by my home builder and floor coverings sub contractor employed by the builder].  I "tweaked" the vacuum based on the several recommendations of the dyson techs.  But it would never perform properly on my rugs due to several shortcomings unrelated to air flow and steerability.  It was "fun" working with the dyson techs.  But fun alone did not solve the problems. 

I puchased the DC07 pink on a Labor Day sale from TARGET in 2006.  I kept it for several weeks and attempted to use regularly but to no avail.  Why?  The clutch would constantly make the ratcheting noise and the brush bar would stop.  All the while making calls and emailing dyson with the results [the fun part].  I could not pass over an area of my rugs 4/5 times w/o the clutch engaging and disabling the brush bar.  Toward the Holidays of 2006, I exchanged my dyson DC07 pink with my daughter's HOOVER Soft and Light upright [about 7 years old].  She had a home at the time that had carpets more suitable for this dyson.  She used it on the main level while using a HOOVER V2 [5 years old] on the top level.  In June 2007, after having a second baby, she and my son-in-law bought/moved into a larger house with carpets similar to my home.  The dyson was useless again.  Performing exactly the same as it did for me.

Having purchased my new ORECK Classic XL upright in April 2007, and my daughter liking it, I bought a new ORECK upright and gifted to her in July 2007.  She uses it on the main level, and the HOOVER Dual V on the second floor.  She relegated her dyson to a closet in one of her unused spare bedrooms.  She gifted the dyson away to a needy Church family during the 2007 Holidays.  Unfortunately it didn't work for the donee, who returned it to her.   It's still unused and awaiting another home where it can be used and hopefully appreciated. 

I trust this adequately addresses your concerns/questions.

Carmine D.

PS:  The clutch and brush bar shut off are flawed features [overengineering] on dysons for "some" USA carpets.  I'm sure the reason in large part that these features are no longer used on dyson models.  On a positive note, $45 from the sale was donated by dyson, according to its claims, to the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation.  A reason in part I bought it and never returned it.

This message was modified Nov 11, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #359   Nov 11, 2008 6:53 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
 Also...   have you seen David Oreck's latest XL Platinum television commercial? He is attempting to make it look as if this antiquated chassis (Murray Spangler-type) has steering.  He "borrowed" the Dave Shimkus demonstration where Dave twists and turns Dyson steerable's over hard surfaces littered with coffee grounds. Certainly Dave Shimkus is not the first to vacuum up coffee grounds. He is the world's first to leave a clean slalom-like or s-shaped path through coffee grounds using the world's only highly reactive steerable (a nozzle that reacts in concert to  "wrist steer"; that is, Dyson's Ball line and Slim).

You will see Oreck make a swivelable and many others too, due to the Dyson DC15 but mostly due to the Slim proving out/carving out this new "steerable" and profitable market.

DIB


Hello DIB:

I have not seen the new ORECK TV commercial, but nice to know Dave still likes to stay engaged in vacuum battles and forays with bagless, by-pass, and now steerable contenders.  Dave Oreck's sales essence is his fatherly figure status.  It is not what he says, but his presence and demeanor when saying it.  He exudes trust.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 11, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #360   Nov 11, 2008 7:13 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Moose,

 Patents on file at the USPTO are nothing more than archived documents. It is my strong belief that the US government has made patent searching much more difficult than need be. - Which certainly favors the patent lawyer industry, the wealthy or wealthy and powerful corporations (i.e. keeps competing inventions down to a minimum). I can see the logic behind not wanting novice patent filings and wasting patent office man hours on such. I do not see the logic, fairness or how our nation is benefited by making patent searching difficult. Our country needs backyard inventors to see if they have a patentable widget and who the competition is (if any) and what they have patented. Many, many, many, huge corporations started out or started with a backyard inventor which ultimately prospered creating much wealth and jobs.  Turning the “backyard inventor faucet” off (by making the invention process hard) is pure stupidity for our nations overall success.   DIB 

Hello DIB:

Most definitely.  The USPTO is filled with lawyers and government bureacrats.  A product of years of Republican style politics in Washington which speak of less government involvement/regulation but do the opposite.  From 1968 until 2008, 40 years during which the patent office flourished, the USA had 28 years of Republican Presidents and 12 years of Democrats.  Too bad the US hasn't embraced Ben Franklin's advice. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 11, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #361   Nov 12, 2008 4:16 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Moose,

 Patents on file at the USPTO are nothing more than archived documents. It is my strong belief that the US government has made patent searching much more difficult than need be. - Which certainly favors the patent lawyer industry, the wealthy or wealthy and powerful corporations (i.e. keeps competing inventions down to a minimum). I can see the logic behind not wanting novice patent filings and wasting patent office man hours on such. I do not see the logic, fairness or how our nation is benefited by making patent searching difficult. Our country needs backyard inventors to see if they have a patentable widget and who the competition is (if any) and what they have patented. Many, many, many, huge corporations started out or started with a backyard inventor which ultimately prospered creating much wealth and jobs.  Turning the “backyard inventor faucet” off (by making the invention process hard) is pure stupidity for our nations overall success.   DIB

Carmine wrote:

Hello DIB:

Most definitely.  The USPTO is filled with lawyers and government bureacrats.  A product of years of Republican style politics in Washington which speak of less government involvement/regulation but do the opposite.  From 1968 until 2008, 40 years during which the patent office flourished, the USA had 28 years of Republican Presidents and 12 years of Democrats.  Too bad the US hasn't embraced Ben Franklin's advice. 

Carmine D.


Carmine,

Glad to hear others feel US patents are vital too. Greed is on both sides of the aisle. I am not a USPTO history buff but greed always raises its ugly head everywhere. You know Carmen, I don't think many, including politicians realize how vital patents are to our interests. Dyson himself is up against the same issue in England. Governments just don't get it, yet they want their taxes, their countries to grow stronger and independent (as possible), to be better prepared to stave off or to win wars and they want their people working and they want to do it without helping smart, independent inventors invent, -- go figure.        DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #362   Nov 12, 2008 5:29 pm
Hello DIB:

The essence of prudent Gov't regulation/oversight is balance.  Too much and/or too little are problematic.   Too much and you stymie private sector innovation.  Too little and you risk having no ethical/moral business boundaries.  Recent case in point.  Sarbanes Oxley.  For years, accounting firms were allowed to police themselves.  Result:  Oftentimes, the accounting firms were in bed with their clients, who paid them, and reported what their customers told them.  Hence: Enron, Global Crossing and host of other firms that went belly up with investors and stakeholders taking it on the chin.  All the while being audited/reviewed by accounting firms giving them clean [unqualified] opinions.  The best grade.  Gov't answer: Sarbanes/Oxley:  Over regulation.  Way too costly and time consuming.   Almost impossible to practically perform within the time constraints.  No better than having no regulation/oversight at all. 

Carmine D. 

This message was modified Nov 12, 2008 by CarmineD
M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #363   Nov 16, 2008 6:05 pm
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #364   Nov 16, 2008 6:55 pm
Hello M00seUK:

Why is dyson posting financial results, tho cryptic and limited, for 2007 almost one year after the calendar year closed?  Generally this info is released within 90 days of the close of the calendar year, if not earlier.  This data is 325 days after the business year closed: December 31, 2007.  Long after most businesses reported for 2007 and paid out dividends.  Most businesses now are reporting interim results for 2008.  Why is James behind the curve and reporting so late? 

When it came to the UK capital gains tax increase, dyson had an emergency midnight Board of Directors meeting on March 31, 2008 right before the new tax law was to take effect.  James got board approval to make a hasty cash withdrawal [and avoid the new higher tax law rates].   What was it?  $260 MILLION.  He can act quickly when he wants.  Not so quickly otherwise. 

Dyson dividends cut in half in 2007 over 2006 by over 30 million GBP.  James reduced his salary by 60 percent in 2007 over 2006.  These are not the actions of a business that did well.  In fact, just the opposite.   This is not the full disclosure of financial results for dyson for 2007.  Just a few numbers tossed out to "paint" a rosie scenario.  Along with some other numbers, including extremely late year reporting, that raise alot of questions.   

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 17, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #365   Nov 17, 2008 1:08 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello M00seUK:

Why is dyson posting financial results, tho cryptic and limited, for 2007 almost one year after the calendar year closed?  Generally this info is released within 90 days of the close of the calendar year, if not earlier.  This data is 325 days after the business year closed: December 31, 2007.  Long after most businesses reported for 2007 and paid out dividends.  Most businesses now are reporting interim results for 2008.  Why is James behind the curve and reporting so late? 

When it came to the UK capital gains tax increase, dyson had an emergency midnight Board of Directors meeting on March 31, 2008 right before the new tax law was to take effect.  James got board approval to make a hasty cash withdrawal [and avoid the new higher tax law rates].   What was it?  $260 MILLION.  He can act quickly when he wants.  Not so quickly otherwise. 

Dyson dividends cut in half in 2007 over 2006 by over 30 million GBP.  James reduced his salary by 60 percent in 2007 over 2006.  These are not the actions of a business that did well.  In fact, just the opposite.   This is not the full disclosure of financial results for dyson for 2007.  Just a few numbers tossed out to "paint" a rosie scenario.  Along with some other numbers, including extremely late year reporting, that raise alot of questions.   

Carmine D.


 Take it easy Tom Clancy. First your HSN/Dyson conspiracy of selling 10,000 units of the DC07 in one day, now the above rubbish. Time to switch to decaf.        DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #366   Nov 17, 2008 2:05 pm
Hello DIB:

Rubbish?  Since you brought up HSN, I'll update you on some recent developments.  On October 31 when I posted the HSN common stock info, it was available on the HSN Web Site.  No more.  No stock quote info available.  Why?   If you recall it was trading at $6.15.  Here's the latest, just 2 plus weeks later:

Last Sale: Net Change:
Share Volume:Previous Close:$ 4.67
Today's High:Today's Low:
Best Bid:$ 4.91Best Ask:$ 4.92
52 Week High:$ 16.5452 Week Low:$ 3.06
P/E Ratio:N/AShares Outstanding:56,145,000
Earnings Per Share (EPS):N/AMarket Value:$ 276,233,400
NASDAQ Official Open Price:$ 4.80Date of Open Price:Nov. 17, 2008
NASDAQ Official Close Price:$ 4.67

Down, down, down.  How low will HSN go? 

If dyson follows the same pattern in 2008, and reports its financial results one year late, I suspect it just may be too little too late.

You're a smart man.  How does a company with 1700 employees add over 500 new hires on the wake of what all experts call the worse global economic downturn in over 70 years?   What is James thinking?  And more importantly, is he thinking? 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 17, 2008 by CarmineD
M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #367   Nov 17, 2008 2:37 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello M00seUK:

Why is dyson posting financial results, tho cryptic and limited, for 2007 almost one year after the calendar year closed?  Generally this info is released within 90 days of the close of the calendar year, if not earlier.  This data is 325 days after the business year closed: December 31, 2007.  Long after most businesses reported for 2007 and paid out dividends.  Most businesses now are reporting interim results for 2008.  Why is James behind the curve and reporting so late? 

When it came to the UK capital gains tax increase, dyson had an emergency midnight Board of Directors meeting on March 31, 2008 right before the new tax law was to take effect.  James got board approval to make a hasty cash withdrawal [and avoid the new higher tax law rates].   What was it?  $260 MILLION.  He can act quickly when he wants.  Not so quickly otherwise. 

Dyson dividends cut in half in 2007 over 2006 by over 30 million GBP.  James reduced his salary by 60 percent in 2007 over 2006.  These are not the actions of a business that did well.  In fact, just the opposite.   This is not the full disclosure of financial results for dyson for 2007.  Just a few numbers tossed out to "paint" a rosie scenario.  Along with some other numbers, including extremely late year reporting, that raise alot of questions.   

Carmine D.



Carmine, there's nothing here at all to suggest Dyson is being allusive. Dyson is a private limited company which (as you know) unlike a public listed company doesn't have to revel anything beyond the figures contained in the news article, which was taken from the accounts filed at companies house.

Dyson filed the year ending 31 Dec 2007 on 31 Oct 2008 - exactly the same requirement as any other limited company that chooses to use this accounting period.

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/7c555f817319dcf2dcfc450748155ff3/compdetails

The comparisons you make with performance to dividend payments are largely irrelevant for a company owned 100% by one family.

Whilst the future certainly will be challenging for them, diversifying in to international markets and indeed in to non-floorcare sectors they look better set to weather the storm than most. They sell functional, as apposed to luxury goods, with high added value.

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #368   Nov 17, 2008 2:53 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB:

If dyson follows the same pattern in 2008, and reports its financial results almost one year late, I suspect it just may be too little and too late.

How does a company with 1700 employees add over 500 more new hires on the wake of what all experts call the worse global economic downturn in over 70 years?   What is James thinking?  Is he thinking? 

Carmine D.


 Carmine,
So much concern for Mr. Dyson? Is Dyson the only corporation affected by the world's economies? I applaud the man! He keeps doing and keeps putting faith in what has worked for him and the civilized worlds past too... he keeps inventing! Yes he will have a harder time with all the knockoffs including Miele's and others entering James' category -- steerable's.

 I have not read of Dyson doing any hiring, in fact just the opposite, I've read he might let go of some 69 jobs in Malmesbury which made a stink in some of the British press. Carmen you must remember that competing manufacturers are nothing without Dyson inventing first and showing these competing manufacturing numbskulls the way to more profits via innovation. :-)

DIB


CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #369   Nov 17, 2008 2:58 pm
Hello M00seUK:

I beg to differ with you on several points.  Dyson sells functional products but does so at luxury prices.  Bad for business in poor economic times when consumers are not spending. 

A formal submission on a timely basis is always a matter of routine.  In the past, dyson "leaked" sales and profit information to the press well in advance of the regulatory requirements for reporting.  Dyson fans posted the news here for all to read.   Dyson made no early releases of financial data for 2007.  Instead, filing the obligatory data in accordance with the time requirements by October 31.  And news entities reading/reporting about the filings weeks later. 

Cost and expense increases, the number of new hires, and a company's dividend payouts have the same meanings and implications for privately held firms [controlled by one family] as publicly held ones with varied and sundry investors and stakeholders.  When times are good, dividend payouts and salaries are good.  When times are bad, they are not.   Increasing operating costs with an 18 percent increase in new hires, on the eve of the worse global economic downturn in over 70 years, worsens the adverse impact on operations.  The way to hide the negative impact of increasing costs is cutting back dividend payouts and owners' [read family] salaries.   The article mentions James' salary as the highest cut by over 60 percent.  I suspect other salaries were cut too.  Why?  To sure up the net profit and paint a "rosie scanario."

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 17, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #370   Nov 17, 2008 3:18 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
 Carmine,

 I have not read of Dyson doing any hiring, in fact just the opposite, I've read he might let go of some 69 jobs in Malmesbury which made a stink in some of the British press.
DIB



Hello DIB:

I won't debate opinions with you.  You're entitled to put James on a pedestal.  But you must remember, the higher you put him up there, the harder the fall.

Here is an excerpt from the article that M00se posted from the UK Telegraph.  It's my source for the new dyson hires.  I don't make this stuff up.  I read what you and others post here.  And quote it back to you.

"The company’s highest-paid director, believed to be Mr Dyson, took a 60pc pay cut to £12.6m in 2007 while staff numbers grew by 18pc to 2,203. "

I don't know if 2,203 is before and/or after the 69 person cut. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 17, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #371   Nov 17, 2008 3:56 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB:

I won't debate opinions with you.  You're entitled to put James on a pedestal.  But you must remember, the higher you put him, the harder his fall.

Here is an excerpt from the article that M00se posted from the UK Telegraph.  It's my source for the 500 new hires. 

"The company’s highest-paid director, believed to be Mr Dyson, took a 60pc pay cut to £12.6m in 2007 while staff numbers grew by 18pc to 2,203. "

Carmine D.


Hey Carmine,

The concept is pretty simple to understand...  the world craves innovations that make life better.  Dyson is the kind of fella that delivers such innovations, certainly not all his ideas are winners and he is in good company...  many prolific inventors of past believed in stinkers too.  I do put innovation in a place of prominence (pedestal if you prefer) and not humans.  I do applaud and laugh when Dyson walks into a 100 year old industry and turns it upside down do the NIH/"Not Invented Here" beliefs of vacuum manufacturing Suits.  Like I said in the past the "NIH Suits" give license for Dyson to print money even if it is a paltry $25m annually or as high as $124m annually. What do you think David Oreck or Mark Bissell profit off their namesakes? Certainly nothing like what Dyson does. Between Oreck and Bissell there's 200 years of vacuum manufacturing, certainly and in the spirit of fairness it's time for you to throw rocks at these guys too. - Start with Oreck, since he is the biggest American vacuum manufacturer-whiner of Dyson.

DIB
This message was modified Nov 17, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #372   Nov 17, 2008 4:10 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Hey Carmine,

The concept is pretty simple to understand... 
DIB



Hi DIB:

I know the concept is fairly simple for me to grasp.  I can't speak for others.  I ask questions [not throwing rocks as you call it].  Like this one: "When all the global economies are at their worse levels in over 70 years, and all the largest/oldest companies in business are reducing costs/cutting employees to steer the ship and stay afloat, how does dyson increase new hires by 18 percent?"  

You're absolutely right.  Somebody here doesn't grasp the simple business concept.  Who do you think it is?  James and dyson and/or all the rest of the peoples, countries, and companies around the world?

ORECK and BISSELL are two of the oldest and longest surviving vacuum companies in the industry.  Some say that BISSELL, with its carpet sweepers, started the vacuum industry.  And ORECK has 45 years of cornering the market with lightweight uprights.  [And a few imitators trying to capitalize on the concept].  With ORECK's dominance in the hotel and motel cleaning industry,  it has earned a well deserved reputation for business success.  Far be it for me to throw rocks at these industry stalwarts.  I'll leave that for others to do, who may not grasp the concept of business success.  

BTW, KOHL's is now selling the new BISSELL Versus in its stores.  KOHL's bills it as the first vacuum that uses "V head nozzle technology."  Or something to that effect.  And KOHL's has the Dirt Devil AccuCharge stick vacuum.  In case you are interested.  I think both will sell well in these economic times in this venue.  In fact at the affordable prices, customers may substitute these vacuum purchases for more expensive full size vacuums.  That is, customers who grasp the concept.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 17, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #373   Nov 17, 2008 5:26 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hi DIB:

I know the concept is fairly simple for me to grasp.  I can't speak for others.  I ask questions of these persons and companies [not throwing rocks as you call it] that buck the tide.  Like this one: "When all the global economies of the world are at their worse levels in over 70 years, and all the largest and oldest companies in business are reducing costs/cutting employees to steer the ship and stay afloat, how does dyson, which makes functional household products and sells at luxury prices, increase new hires by 18 percent?"  

You're absolutely right.  Somebody here doesn't grasp the concept.  Who do you think it is?  James and dyson and/or all the rest of the people, countries, and the companies around the world?

ORECK and BISSELL are two of the oldest companies in the industry.  Some may say BISSELL, with its carpet sweepers, started the vacuum industry.  And certainly ORECK with 45 years of cornering the market on lightweight uprights has earned a well deserved reputation for success in this industry.  Far be it for me to throw rocks at them.  I'll leave that for others, who don't grasp this concept, if they are so inclined. 

Carmine D.

Hello,

Because many can and do run smooth, respectable operations daily, I find substituting Oreck's reputation for innovation a poor excuse.  Oreck needs to quit whining of Dyson and out-innovate him and advertise that and not the blathering Dyson whining which Oreck dedicates much advertising/marketing to.

Dyson runs a smooth, respectable operation also (despite what his enemies say) and brings to market new innovations vice Oreck, who sells tired product (vacuums) or tired product with lipstick - i.e. the XL Platinum.

 To speculate of new hires and/or manufacturing expansion or tooling... it is obvious Mr. Dyson wants to reintroduce or introduce for the first time a new washing machine and certainly a dryer (for those countries who use dryers). Perhaps this is what he is doing, I hope so.  I have no opinion of timing, yet certainly if a washer and dryer can be innovated radically better (made more economical to run/green) perhaps now or in the near future will be a good time gear up and launch such products.

DIB
This message was modified Nov 17, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #374   Nov 17, 2008 5:51 pm
Hello DIB:

Most persons look kindly and favorably on buying/using affordably priced practical products made by companies with 45/100 years of history in an industry. 

Much more than they do with "innovation" and "steerability" as reasons [excuses] for justifying past/future expenditures on overpriced products.  All in an effort to charge more for fair to average performance disguised with spiffy colors and see-thru dirt bins.  Especially in hard economic times:  Consumers want practical affordable products to use.  Not ones that are pricey, pretty, and look like fun to use. 

Carmine D.  

This message was modified Nov 17, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: “Anything” Dyson that makes news.
Reply #375   Nov 25, 2008 7:34 am
M00seUK wrote:
There's been a recent Dyson patent filing detailing a drinks vending machine for domestic use, following up a previous filing by the company in this area.

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?KC=A&date=20081105&NR=2448934A&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_GB&CC=GB&FT=D

This details a product with a smaller profile, reduced manufacturing costs and low maintenance. It would seem almost certain this would involve a digital motor along the way.

I'd say there's a high probability of this product reaching market in the next 12 months. The technical illustrations for the patents show production quality parts - not simply theory on how they might do something.

I've noticed a steady increase of this type of appliance in people's homes over the last 5 years. I've considered it myself, but have been put off by perceived cost, energy and space considerations - so certainly, there's room for improvements.


Here is another patent app on the same appliance (dual hopper/coffee grinder/brewer).  INGREDIENT DISPENSING APPARATUS

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