Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Early news reports in the USA are saying the London financial markets nosed dived today in the worse downturn ever.  This comes on the heels of a 4 percent drop in the Dow Jones Industrials last week alone.  Since today is a Federal Holiday in the US in observance of Dr. Martin Luther King the financial markets are closed.  Not sure what impact the London market fall will have on the US markets--have to wait to see.

What and how long will it take jaydee to realize that he needs to enter the low to middle price range vacuum market to stay competitive in the USA in the big box stores' venue?

Any news yet on the 2007 dyson sales? 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hey Carmine,

Pushing paper is not James’ “gift”.  Kirby? - come on man, investing in antiques? - What’s fun about that?  Today, the UK’s “Sunday Times” values James total worth at $2,160,000,000 and he still collects on average $120,000,000 per year from Dyson sales.  And he can close down his R&D by half and pay off another $50 million annually in business debts (making the company worth that much more).  James is money up by following his God given gift/s.        DIB

Hello DIB:

My guy [Warren Buffett, B-H is an antique at 77 just like the Kirby company he owns which has been around since the 1930's ] is bigger than your guy [James Dyson, a business youngin].  Mr. Buffett  according to Forbes in March 2008 is the richest in the world with $62 BILLION and he gifted over $30 BILLION to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation last year.  Mr. Dyson according to the same source is ranked 743 with $1.6 BILLION.   I'll stick with B-H.  I'm a retired antique. The fun for me is keeping count.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

Please do not misunderstand, Kirby the product is an antique not people.  I like Mr. Buffet as many do, although I am doing my best to understand his friendship with predatory business men i.e. Bill Gates

 

Just taking a quick look at the Kirby/Scott latest patents it seems they have no patented innovations that can be called revolutionary or that the competition is dying to copy.  But I can be wrong.  Simply looking at the product, one sees nothing external that screams revolution.  The Kirby profile I found online showed Kirby with $460m in sales.

 

My quote of Dyson’s current wealth was taken from this UK online newspaper (at bottom of Dyson article).  And it states James is worth over $2b.  But upon closer inspection it looks like a typo and the wealth I quoted looks to be from 2007 but the story was mistyped, and the typo read 2008.  James like many UK billionaires wealth decreased, James’ estimated worth this year is only $1.5b as you quoted.  I fully believe new non-vacuum appliances will be coming and be profitable.

 

Investing in BH is investing in many, many corporations not just Kirby.  Kirby would of never paid as does James’ namesake.        DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

I did not want to hone in on Kirby which is by all means a niche vacuum and market for sales.  Albeit one that has been steady and stable for many many years.  WIth a well recognized product and brand.  We even have a direct descendent of Mr. Kirby himself who posts on this Forum albeit infrequently.   

Buffett is a marvel at 74.  His partner Charles Munger, life-long friends, is 84 and a noted money maker in his own right.  Relics some say, just like me, as some say.  Among their holdings: McDonald's, See's Candies, Coca Cola, Washington Post, Dairy Queen, GEICO [gecko] and recently fronted $7 BILLION for the Wringley's-Mars candy deal.  SEVEN BILLION.  By B-H standards that's small.  Generally B-H fronts an average of $10-25 BILLION to consumate business deals. 

Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are good friends.  Play poker together.  You're an Apple/Steve Jobs guy so I understand your dislike for Gates, who by the way was number 3 by the Forbes rankings with $58 Billion.  Bill and Melinda Gates matched Buffett's $31 Billion for their foundation.  It does wonderful things worldwide for the poor and hungry with no strings and politics attached. 

Carmine D. 

DysonInventsBig wrote:

PS: DIB:

My source is one you quoted first: Forbes magazine March 2008.  Dyson's decrease in wealth from 2006 to 2007 was very predictable.  Why?  The downturn in the world economy.  His wealth may decrease further depending on the length and severity of the poor global economic conditions.  [Did you read the professional advice/assessment of buying/gifting a $600 dyson vacuum for Mother's Day?].  If not, it's on the thread: Dyson in the news.  Worth a read.

Mr. Dyson should focus on bagless vacuums and making them better and less expensive than the competition.  And building a support system of dealers/stores in the US and CAN that can and will service/sell dysons for the long haul. In good economic times/bad.  He has not and does not do these things.  All the major US big box retailers have/had exclusive dyson models [Target, SEARS, BEST BUY, Wal*Mart].  Even a Susan G. Komen edition. Some more than one.  What happened to the vacuum stores/dealer exclusives? 

The new dyson vacuums are becoming more expensive and require more user maintenance.  Is this progress?  Or are we going back wards?  Dah?  And the vacuum store dealership support is just an after thought.  These are weaknesses for a business man like Mr. Dyson.  And, as we have already seen, costly mistakes.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
DIB

5 reasons...not in any order but:

Too Heavy/Awkward (This could be attributed to many other brands as well)
Eats up their rugs
Convoluted tool usage
Inability to get repaired (Watching their face when told they might have to ship it to Buffalo is priceless...)
Emptying dust bin is not as great an idea as they thought

CarmineD wrote:

Hello,

Re: Gates.

When a kid (me) watches his dad go from janitor to owner-operator of 3 successful restaurants and making a very good living via a good idea and lots of hours, then to loose it all because he was strong armed by a billionaire.  It is deeply profound and live changing.  Eye’s of a victims say it all, especially the eyes of loved ones.  I can relate to those who worked hard only to be forced out or hamstrung by Gates’ proven predatory practices.  It is said that Alfred Nobel created the Nobel Peace Prize because of the guilt he felt from his business – explosives, explosives that killed many in war.  I wonder if the boyish faced Bill Gates is trying to redeem or purge himself with the philanthropy.  Gates’ record is clear, he’ll destroy anyone/any business that gets in his way.  That is, until the U.S. and European governments stopped him and his partner.  It’s public record.  I believe what my Book says… That there is a Righteous Judge who sees what’s in people’s harts and minds.       

 

I am happy Gates helps others with his money.  I am happy seeing old film of the food kitchens serving the hungry of the Great Depression, even when the kitchen/s were financed by Al Capone.        DIB

 

P.S.  We all have the ability to look away and not look at the hard truth.  I’d like to think this is what the seemingly good Mr. Buffett does.

Lucky1 wrote:

Thanks man.  You and I do not see eye to eye on things Dyson, but your forthrightness and answering my post to you is much appreciated!  I had a few other quesitons too, if you can help.        DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

This reminded me of a similar more recent case.  I'm a fan of EWTN which was founded by Mother Angelica, who recently turned 85, over 25 years ago.  As a nun, she had no funds.  But she had a vision to build a Church/Shrine in Hanceville Alabama.  Not knowing where to get the seed money to start the project, she prayed and prayed to come up with the answer.  And it came to her.  She grew up in a city in Ohio and went to school with many friends who grew up to become mob members.  Men with lots of money.

So Mother went back to her roots to ask her friends for money.  She told them that she would seal their names in the mortar and concrete of the Shrine to the Blessed Virgin Mary, if they helped her financially.  In that way, whenever pilgrims made the journey to Hanceville and prayed at the Shrine, these mob members would be remembered for their generosity.  An offer that they couldn't refuse. Talk about money laundering!  You know the rest.   

My sense is that if Capone aka scarface, the head of Murderers Inc., died repenting and asking forgiveness and God's mercy, he was well on his way to Eternal Salvation. 

BTW, Capone died in federal prison of venereal disease serving a 13 year sentence for income tax evasion.  Ironically, the evidence used to convict and sentence him was older than the statute of limitations of 6 years.  His defense lawyers never asked for the case to be dismissed on those grounds, for whatever reasons.  If they had, the judge would have had no choice but to comply and throw the case out.  A fatal error on their part for Alphonso Capone.    

Only satanism denies man his inalienable right to reform.  My sense is that Capone did before checking out.  And maybe some of those mob members too who financed EWTN for Mother Angelica.

Carmine D.

DBI

Please don't think I am a Dyson "Basher". I am somewhat in the middle on my feelings about the Machine & the Company. I have addressed several of the issues why I am hesitant to sell them. As a Designer in a previous lifetime I support Inventors, individuals especially, and superior graphic design & marketing. I wish every company would embrace Design it would be a better world IMO. I do have major issue when bean counters & sales people take over a company. Dyson has no loyalty or commitment to the Vacuum business and the independent dealer. Why would they expect support from them. Like a wolverine who kills a large animal, eats what it can then ruins the carcass so no one else can use it. In the long run will this attitude help them and the vac business? The amount of referbs & Ebays are NOT a good thing for the business and Dyson will see it won't be good for them. So in essence I like the Idea and the creator I don't like what happens afterward.

Things I would correct are

Give indies access to and authority to repair snap on parts at least.

Give indies MUCH better prices. The sham that you are on the same playing field as BB& Beyond & the Internet etal is beyond insulting. Customers should be able to buy the vacuum at an indie for a minimum of $50 per machine less than they can get it anywhere else. More so if the dealer is willing to train to fix them.

Use some of those Advertising dollars to direct Buyers to the Local Vac Shop. If James were to look at the camera at the end of a commercial and say something to the effect of "Try our product at your local vac shop or support your local vac shop business, it would be both engaging to the public and be another vehicle for sales they are barely accessing. Doesn't have to be on every commercial but a few would be nice.

As far as design: Try to simplify, for repair or at least visually. Too many dangling, hanging parts.

If I was a paid consultant I would spend more time. Hope this helps