Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

How can Mr Oreck,offer a 21 year warranty ,this must be one hell of a product

MOLE

What are the chances it will last more than 4 years OR even less when the buyer has remorse!!! LOL

Also comes with annual maintenance free.  So I'm not surprised that they last.

I have the XL Classic.  Not a year yet, but just as good as new.  My Wife loves using it because of the lightweight.  We have a lab that sheds year round and the Oreck XL picks up the hair easily from rug to floor and back.  No problem.   We purchased and gifted 2 away to family members because we were impressed with the performance.  BTW, the User Manual is only 5 pages and there is a nice pocket in the outer jacket of the bag made for it.  Spare belt has a well under the soleplate.  Handy to store an extra.  I replaced the belt after 9 months.  Takes 30 seconds.  On the 3 paper bag. 

Carmine D.

I don't dispute that Orecks aren't well made (our XL9100 had no problems while we had it), in fact I think they're sturdy machines and US MADE!  It's just that they don't deep-clean well and there are better choices out there for that purpose.  They do well on low-pile carpets removing surface dirt, and on bare floors.  The XL21 has addressed the performance issue somewhat, but look at the price...

Motorhead wrote:

If you use the Oreck daily/frequently, for which it is designed, deep rug cleaning is not an issue and problem.  It takes several days for the surface dirt to be grind down and fall into the rug backing and pad.  If you don't delay vacuuming to once a week, the Oreck gets it up and out quickly.  Oreck excels as a quick daily user between more heavy duty cleaning, say with a HOOVER WT weekly.  For rugs.  On floors and area rugs, Oreck is premier.

I have wool medium pile looped carpet and Oreck cleans and grooms very well.  Only my HOOVER WT is better.  Oreck is much much better on my carpets than a new DC07 pink which constantly gave me the ratching noise and the roller brush refused to turn.  Both vacuums [Oreck and dyson} are self-adjusting.  Also, the dyson brush roll got wrapped with the new carpet nap and dog hair after each use.  The Oreck does not.  Never has.  Mine is the XL Classic.  I paid $150 through the US Humane Society.  It was brand new.

Carmine D.

You can come to your own assumptions on the Oreck,but what other vacuum manufacturer offer the same deal as David and company,he speaks the truth,if you dont like it after 30 days just send it back and he pays the shipping,and you can keep the gift premium.I can honestly say that no one in the industry has done,for the business what Oreck has done.

I wonder how many orecks are sold in 1 year?.

All in all it's as good as any other upright out there.If people had the choice to what vacuum they grab to houseclean.HOOVER,DYSON,ELECTROLUX,MIELE,KIRBY,RICCAR,ETC. the oreck would more than likley be the first one pulled out of the closet.

MOLE

Hi Mole:

When I was in the vacuum business I never sold new Orecks.  I repaired them.  Sold them used.  And stocked parts for them.  In over 40 years of the vacuum store business, I never heard an Oreck customer speak badly about their Orecks.  NEVER.  Just the opposite.  They praised them.   I can count on one hand the number I traded in on sales of other vacuums. 

Now I actually own and use one, the XL Classic.  And after doing so, I immediately bought 2 more new as gifts for family members.  I plan to buy more this year to gift away. 

I enjoy going into the Oreck Clean Home Centers.  I enjoy seeing the reaction on the faces of the owners/employees when I ask for Dave.  They look at me rather puzzled.  Then I relate to them that I met Dave many many years ago when he still had hair and I always consider him a friend and an industry professional.  Many don't know that he is in his 80's and a WW 11 vet. 

He is an industry icon who changed the vacuum business with his 8 pound Oreck upright. 

Carmine D.

I bought an Oreck 9100C at a thrift store a short while ago.  Is this unit similar to  the the XL 21??  From the instruction manual that came with it, it was bought in the early 90's.  I bought it just to tear it to pieces to see how things tick as my knowledge of Oreck products is rather limited.  I was astonished at how small and weak suction/airflow the unit produces.  I turned the fan unit and the bearing appears ok, the arc on the armature looks fine as well.  The belt and brush need replacing.  I contacted a few Oreck outlets/stores that sell them, as my main concern was about the poor filtration of the unit and it's lack of power.  I can't get a definitive answer from them.  I want better filtration than micro allergen bags (5 microns), I'm looking closer to filtrete/hepa,  and a more powerful motor.  Does one have many options with this older vintage, is it too cost prohibitive??  I guess I have to give credit where credit is do, it was in the early 90's when the original owner bought this, and some 15 or so years later, it's still running!!

Vernon

Vernon wrote:

Hi Vernon:

Like most vacuums of today compared to the early 90's, including Oreck, the XL is a vast improvement over its predecessors.    I admire your enthusiasm and resourcefulness.  But if I were using an Oreck daily and not just for quick pick-ups, I would opt for the XL Classic or better with the odor fighting hypo-allergenic celoc bags. 

Carmine D.

Hello again,Nanook of the north.All said and done ORECK is one first class company They walk the walk and talk the talk,and have been for over 40 years.They DOMINATE the motel and hotel business,along with SANITAIRE.The XL21,is 9 pounds,it's build quality is right up there,the machine just flat out does what they say it does.

And we sell a ton of them.

The back up service is second to none......Many other vacuum manufactures can take a lesson from them.........

MOLE

I had always overlooked the Oreck because I had heard it wasn't a real contender as a vacuum.  My uncle asked me about an Oreck about three years ago, and I told him, "The Whats the best vacuum board said they are little more than an electric carpet sweeper."  They   had a central system installed instead and are quite happy with their choice. 

But If I have experts like Mole and Carmine D.  endorsing the Oreck, I will take look at them for myself.   

Just wrote:

Hello Just:

My friend Mole likes to say a "hokie on a stick" facetiously, of course.

I know families who were die hard users of Electrolux, Kirby, and other vacuum brands for years.  As the matriarch and patriarch in the family aged and could no longer vacuum with the full sized vacuums of their younger years, they switched over to the Oreck and were very pleased. 

My caveats are with the price and usage.  Orecks are usually sold at Estate sales for $25-$50 and well worth those prices.  Many Oreck users vacuum the open traffic areas daily and then trade off once a week and/or 2 or more times a month with a larger full sized vacuum for a thorough household cleaning  That's what I do.  The others are a HOOVER WT Supreme and canister.  The WT grooms much better than the Oreck, but the Oreck is a competitive second.  I have medium pile loop Mohawk wool carpets and ceramic tile floors with area rugs.  Oreck is ideal for cleaning both rug and floors daily with no need to shut off the brush roll and/or adjust height.  Oreck is effortless from one floor covering to another.   And my dear Wife will take out the Oreck and vacuum before she would ever use the HOOVER WT.

One more note.  I purchased the XL Classic new through a special offer with the US Humane Society and paid $150.  No other amenities and give-aways.  And a one year guarantee.  I bought two more and gifted them to family members including my daughter who is expecting her third child.  Her house is over 3000 square feet and she is using the Oreck on the main level until I install a central vacuum unit.

Plus, Oreck has Clean Home Centers around the country.  Most sell parts and service all vacuum brands, not just Orecks.  Parts and repairs are quick and easy.  If you go into one and ask about repairs, most will tell you that 80 percent of the weekly repair work are non-Oreck vacuums. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine,

This is why I stated I would look for myself.  I am not as young as I used to be.  Besides, as much as I do love my Kirby,  I am just too darn old to drag a baby elephant up and down the stairs everyday anymore.  I currently am using a Eureka Boss 402B light weight as my tidy up machine and my Kirby as my main workhorse.  The Eureka besides being a screamer with a short cord, has this tiny little filter in a cup that plugs after about three seconds of cleaning.  I would like an Oreck or Simplicity light weight for my quick jobs. 

The house I bought is an older home  with glued down carpet in the kitchen and basement.  Besides a very thick plush in the living room, dining room, hall.  Berber in the other rooms.  Two carpeted staircases wouldn't have been a problem with my Kirby before my car wreck four years ago,  but now my back won't take it too often.  Thus the highest traffic area of the home is only throughly cleaned about once a week. 

OH--BTW, If I ever catch you endorsing a Dyson.  I will start looking around for UFO's and those bodysnatchers from the Sci-Fi movies.  Because I know they've got you.

Just wrote:

Just:

If you decide to buy a new Oreck, and you have an Oreck Clean Home Center near by, by all means shop there and see what kind of a deal they offer you.  I would not be surprised if they match the Oreck-USHS price on an XL Classic if you foregoe the extras and are content with a year guaranty.  And/or offer a rebuilt Oreck to you at a decent price.

You will enjoy the store venue if you've never been in one.  Oreck does a terrific job in showing the colors proudly.  Very professional.  Nice atmosphere.  And your timing may coincide with a customer's match off of an Oreck and dyson in a cleaning contest. 

Carmine D.

Hi Just, when father time catches up to you then you will understand why oreck sells so good.Sure they need belts and bag changes ,brush roll changes every once in a while,the parts are cheap it can be done by almost anyone,even HARDSELL,

The best comment i ever heard from an oreck customer is that she didn't have to take a nap after cleaning her carpets.

MOLE

mole wrote:

I love it!  That says it all.  If people equate vacuuming to hard work, they won't do it.  Instead putting it off until they absolutely can't anymore.  With an Oreck you're not tired after the deed is done.  You do the traffic areas, the floors, the throws, and then zip under the furniture and beds too.  You wrap up the cord, and don't have to break your back to do it.  Then you tuck it away behind a chair/lamp until the next day.  Change the belt every 6 months, it takes 30 seconds.  And there's a storage well on the soleplate for a spare.  Change the bag every 2-3 months [maybe longer].  Takes a minute.  Store extra bags in the outer bag pocket.  Dispose the full bag in the kitchen trash.  No daily/frequent dust and dirt bin dumping.  People equate the latter with hard work.  And consequently they don't do it!  Throw in filter maintenance and weight of bagless vacuums and you have a huge headache.  In addition to a backache. 

Carmine D.

Just wrote:

Hi Just:

I didn't notice this in my earlier reading and it gave me a good laugh.

I've made several personal and professional suggestions for improving dysons on a number of vacuum Forums.  I was probably the first observer to note and comment on the flimsy brush roll [bar] on the DC07.  And warn buyers and users that it was not an industry standard brush roll.  This was in April 2002.  I also criticized the u bend airway saying that customers typically step on it confusing it for the handle release also in April 2002.  And criticized the DC07 for not having a headlight.  The u bend joints would be found laying around the dyson vacuums unattached.  Why?  The store staff did not know how to attach and the dyson manual didn't specifically illustrate.  A BEST BUY employee and supervisor tried for 20 minutes when they demoed the DC07 to me.  Of course without the u bend air way, it has no attachment suction.  I finally showed them.  These faults have been corrected [save the headlight].  I could go on, but I'll spare the readers the redundancy.

One of the reasons I laugh, is because there have been recent UFO sightings over Las Vegas on 2 different occasions.  Both seen by dear Wife and several of our neighbors.  To my knowledge, they got no news coverage locally/nationally.   Not like the recent fire at the Monte Carlo Hotel/Casino.  After the first sighting, I kidded my Wife and others about it.  Citing the Twilight Zone.  After the second, I didn't.  Wait until I tell her that she was right and jaydee is sending his cadre of cronies to kidnap me.  She'll love it!  Some thought that was the reason for my absence from this site.  No such luck by jaydee. 

My sense is dyson will do one of 2 things in the future: One: Sell the dyson rights off to the highest bidder which he tried to do before in better economic times.  And/or resign himself and his products to a "niche" market in the USA.  If the former, the dyson products will result in a niche base of faithful clientele.  Most of whom, post on the vacuum Forums and will buy anything with the dyson name and pay whatever it costs.   

if I were still in the business I would stock and sell dysons [if customers absolutely insisted on buying].  And I would wholesale them by just covering my costs of sale.  As an accomodation for my customers and to have the dyson repair and parts business which should get lucrative soon.

Carmine D.

I copied this from a link on this site for dysons.  Well done.  Doesn't appear to be bashing.  A neutral fact based comparison.

http://www.oreck.com/upright-vacuum-cleaners/oreckxlultra_vs_bagless.cfm?keycode=DL816

Carmine D.

That link to Oreck is very 'laughable'!!  Why?

1: Carpet to bare floor - Dyson vacs head adjusts automatically from carpet to bare floor (you can turn off the brush bar if required as to not mark your hard floor)

2: No brush bar turn off on the Oreck!  What if I need to turn it off - no function to do this!

3: Why the need for a light! No one vacs in the dark (put the room light on! waste of electric and energy regardless of how light it takes!) and if your going under furniture (I believe someone made a comment on here) you would not vacuum blind under beds etc...

4: Hard platic shell (Dyson) - yes to with stand knocks etc...

5: Handle - well the Oreck handle is not much different form the Dyson!

6: Filters - Yes washable and reuseable and reuseable bin very green - Oreck no filters yes may be but a paper bag (clogged one at that!) - not very green on the environment!

7: Edge brushes - the DC07\DC14 (which is in the picture on the web link DC14 that is) has edge brushes which Dyson places on the edge/corners and you can just see them on that web link picture if you look closely!!

8: Odor Conrol - well the Oreck would need that due to it having a bag, Dyson doesn't need odor control dirt is spun out of the air flow!

9:  Energy Use - yes the oreck has a lower watt motor but when you compare a Dyson to other vacs you will also find the Dyson motor wattage is lower than others (all Dyson vacs are under 1400 watt apart from the DDM which I believe is 1600 watts!)

10: Diry Capacity - Why would you want old dirt sitting around in your vaccum for weeks or even months!  Vacuum up and get it out of the house!

11: Environment/Green Issues - With no parts to replace (ie Bags, belts, filters) the Dyson is more greener than the Oreck!  In a world where we are told to be greener then the Oreck is not that green!

12: Where Oreck states 'Just the facts', they fail to mention there is no tools on the machine you have to take out of the cupboard their little canister. By the time you have done this and wasted time doing so the 'quick' draw wand on the Dyson can be pulled out to do your above floor and attachment cleaning!

No vacuum cleaner is perfect, each to their own and also down to users preferred choice!  Oreck should be comparing there vacuum to other simular lighter models, ones with a bag.  The DC14 is a full size vac plus they need to do there home work a little better as well!  I think other vacuum company pick Dyson becuase of it unique technology, if the Bag is so great they don't need to compare it to Dyson.  They should look at there own technology and the product should sell on it merits!

DC18

CarmineD wrote:
The No1 rule with competitors is that you never directly 'bash' their product or service when comparing to your own.
Why? It looks appears Unprofessional and isn't as effective!

I agree with you there M00seUK. Very true indeed!

Hi DC18,

You hit the nail right on the head with that one as always, I agree with everything you said.  And, again, look what we see the Oreck being compared to, the "poster boy" DC14, one of the older US Dyson models.  A dead giveaway that Oreck is grasping for something to complain about.  The reason being that if it was compared to any of the newer models (Slim, DC17 anyone?), well, they wouldn't find anything TRULY wrong with them.  I agree with you that the Dyson is picked on due to the simple fact that it has potential that others are afraid of.  No one can ignore its success in the (almost) 6 years it has been in the US.

True, the Oreck does have a lower watt/amp motor, but it also has less airflow.  Have you ever seen the size of an Oreck fan?  Only 5 blades, and TINY.  Good for picking up surface dirt from low-pile carpeting, and that's about it.  Not only is the Dyson better.  There are even other bagged lightweights the size of the Oreck, look at the Lux Lite/Hoover Clean & Light and the Tacony-made machines for example.  The difference is that those are actually REAL vacuums with REAL fans.  In fact I recall one of the advertising claims on the Tacony-made machines was showing the Tacony and Oreck fans side-by-side; the Tacony fan being of a much larger diameter of course.  And don't get me started about that minicanister...

And to me, a headlight is there for purely cosmetic reasons, just to add to the look of the cleaner.  It's a nice touch, but is it REALLY necessary?

-MH

Hi Motorhead

Thank you!  I was only stating the obvious from the 'so called facts' Oreck was stating/claiming about a Dyson machine!  I agree with you Oreck must be grasping and clutching at something to try and sell their machines.  If the Oreck technology is so great then as I've said already the product will sell itself there is no need to make comprision to a specific machine which really is not a like for like model/setup!!

Yes I think Dyson is picked on or used because they have something different to offer and there is nothing 'truely' new and different on the market for them to use/pick on! Dyson thinks 'out of the box' which is different and unique to the so called 'norm' and like you say has been very successful with it.  I do think are 'deep' down affraid in someway of Dyson.   If Dyson is no good then why do they try and compare their machines to them, they should just concenstrate on their own technology and promote that!  If there own technology is any good then the product will sell.

No I have not seen an Oreck fan but looking at the size of the machine I can only guess it is very small like you say.  Oreck in the UK is not sold in high street shops they are mainly web base, newspaper and magazine articles and are always aimed at the older generation!  Where as Dyson is main stream!  I think for the price (Oreck UK) I think they are well over priced for what they are and in my opinion a 'modern' Hoover Junior! Or some would say an electric sweeper!

I take it MH you don't like the mini Oreck canister then!?

I think the headlight is cosmetic.  We had a Hoover (UK) Turbopower in the late 80's which had a head lamp and it played no use when using it.  In fact when the bulb went we didn't get it replaced no need to!  It a waste of time and energy having one!  If I wanted to vacuum in the dark then yes but I don't think anyone would!  Never seem to purpose of them really!

DC18

So when is Jimmy boy going to innovate a bumper strip into his innovations.Do the dyson faithful feel that this would be a benefit to the customer?I really would be upset when that cleaning head is crashing into my woodwork and marking it all up.I mean come on boy's even my regina electric had a rubber bumper on the nozzle.

My suggestion to Dyson would be to get out of the vacuum market,before he and his 300plus engineers are on the unenployment line.

Maybe they can R@D into a candle that burns from the bottom to the top.And then and only then tell us how innovative they are.DYSOON............

MOLE

M00seUK wrote:

M00seUK et al:

Webster has the following definitions for "bash"  as a transient verb: 1. To strike with a crushing blow. 2. a. To physically assault; beat up. b. To abuse verbally. 

And as a noun: 3. A crushing blow. 4. a lively social event.  And finally basher-noun.

A checklist of product features comparing one product brand to another [or to its own for that matter] does not meet the above definitions of "bashing'.  It presents the facts in an easy to read comparative format.  Some would say smart comparative advertising.  Oreck does the same for its own vacuum products.  So does dyson.  So do all other brands.  Does this mean they are "bashing" their own products?  Pointing out the differences in an easy to read format?  If you think so, fine don't buy it.  To me, it's smart and effective advertising. 

"You'll discover that while a dyson may be pretty, a new Oreck Ultra is pretty smart." 

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

So when you vacuum under the beds and furniture you can see and remove any objects that should not be vacuumed up.

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

I answered this question for DC18.  If you are vacuuming under furniture and beds, the light is useful to draw your attention to objects that should be removed before vacuuming. 

Carmine D.

mole wrote:

Hi Mole:

That's one feature that Oreck missed in its comparison to the dyson.  Oreck has a full machine wrap around rubber furniture guard.  Dyson does not.  Thanks for pointing that one out to us.

In case there is a question why a furniture guard is needed except for appearance, I would recommend banging the dyson against a baseboard, furniture leg, and door and see what happens.  Then do the same with an Oreck.  Then note the difference:  On the vacuum and the furniture, door, and/or wall.

Carmine D.

I've have not really seen Dyson compare their product to a specific product ou there on the market.  Well there isn't any, only copy cats who can not come up with there own technology!  Dyson mentions other vacuums in general does not pick out own brand/model!  

Again the DC14 is not a comparsion to a Oreck.  What Oreck is trying to get at is their vacuum is lighter compared to a full size vacuum!  Job done!  No need to mention a specific brand/model!  Why not use Hoover etc... let me guess Dyson is 'different' so let use them so it stands out more!  If it was someone else no one would think twice to look at the statement/advert!

As for the bumper, earlier Dyson modesl (DC01, DC03, DC04) had a rubber bumper strip!  This was replaced on later models with the large debris inlet at the front so the rubber bumper was dropped.  I have to say I don't think there is any models in the UK that offer a soft bumper on their Upright machines anymore.  Even a bumper can leave marks behind depends what it is made of.  People should be more careful when vacuuming and not 'bash' about when doing it!  I've seen it all to often, people wilfully bashing the machines (uprights and canister heads) into skirting boards and furniture!

DC18

I have accidently knocked my DC15 and DC07 into furniture in the past, both where unmarked!  To me the Oreck bumoer is too thick so you wouldn't get the suction right up to the edge like a Dyson you would have to 'relie' on the so called side brushes!

If I was vacuuming under a bed or furniture with a vacuum that had a headlight I would have to be bending down or my back to push the machine under for one and to see if there was anything under there I didn't want the vacuum to pick up!  I prefer to do a proper job and move the bed or furniture and clean under it throughly! 

DC18

DC18 wrote:

Good point.  That's the reason vacuum makers use furniture guards [read bumpers] on their products.

BTW, I understand COSTCO marked down their exclusive dyson DC14 Complete from $469 to $399.  I wonder if they are discontinuing its sale.  Based on the comments about the DC14 from dyson admirers on this thread, I can understand if they are.

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

I do too, but not daily.  I don't have the time and energy.  It's hard work.  Maybe weekly/monthly.  For daily vacuuming of dust and dog hair under the beds and furniture, Oreck is simply amazing.  Quick and easy.  Almost effortless.  Although, I see iRobot has a new 5th Generation robotic model 555 for $279.  I might give that a try.  What ever happened to the dyson robot?  Did it ever make it to market?

Carmine D. 

DC18 wrote:

Dyson compares its own products on its web site.  Why? To allow consumers to see the differences in the features and specifications quickly and easilty in order to make an intelligent purchase.  Have you used that feature on the dyson web site?  I have.  It is a very effective tool.  Retailers do it all the time for products too.  I wonder if they view this technique as 'bashing?"

Carmine D.

 

Hi,

Might I humbly submit that Oreck, though not a favorite of mine, does not require a lot of power as did a hundred other excellent vacuums that cleaned well in past days and if employed would clean well now.  Our revered Hoovers of yore used motors that drew as little as 200 watts or so. Why?  Because of design!  However, it appears that the hint of power works as well on appliance buyers as it does on folks out looking for new cars.

Oreck's little fan is literally right down there on the on the floor with the brushroll and the air path to it is short and sweet.  You don't need 1200 watts for it to work well since its admittedly minimal suction is concentrated.  Matter of fact, if it produced higher suction it might well prove hard to push due to its relatively simple form.  As well, the brushroll is designed to offer action aplenty on rugs -- another essential.  That's same idea worked in stick vacs fitted with power nozzles by Bissell, Regina and Hoover back in the 70s.

However, when you make a simple scenario more complex you have to do other things to compensate for what you begin to lose simply because you have made things less simple.  When you're out to wow the world with cyclones and magically dispearing hoses, the first course of action would of course be to chuck a high-powered motor into the deal to make up for all the air leakage possibilities along the extended path between the floor and the fan that may well minimize suction delivery and to also use "power" to compensate for design flaws in brushrolls, etc.  What was European Electroux out to do with the Intensity vacuum it introduced a year or so ago?  No big innovation, just a little machine, big motor, short uncomplicated air path. What you get is a lot of concentrated suction.  Throw in a revolving brush and everbody goes, "Oh my!"

Not meaning to digress but here's an instance regarding power.  Despite the nuisance, old-fashioned friction fit wands used to be how do think we manage with the cheap common button lock vacuum wands and numerous swivel joints many brands have now were it not for motors with pull.  Very few companies save FQ, Hoover and GE, worked at solving the problem.  What's the problem?

Suction delivery.  There's a tremendous amount of possibility that begins at a vacuum's fan, especially a high-powered vacuum's fan, that gets lost, a little here, a little there, because of unnoticed design flaws, minute breaks in seals and friction (a reason you can't put a hose over 12 feet or so on the average household canister).  Like decible ratings, this is another area where manufactures usually do not dare to tread.  In the write-up you read that vacuum "X" has a 1200 watt motor.  What you don't know and I don't think the manufacturer knows either is, percentage-wise, how much benefit of that does the user get.  This is not in particular an endictment against Dyson or any other brand but it should be remembered that more is not always better and that you can do a heck of a lot with a little sometimes.  Oreck -- little bitty fan, short airpath and big old bag -- proves that.

Venson

I'm not sure if the DC14 will be discontinued! Maybe the Lighter DC25 may replace this model!  The DC14 is very popular in the UK as was the DC07 before hand.  There has been some 'serious' marking down of DC14 prices on the high street in the UK but that is probably post Christmas and January sales!  I don't see the DC14 going too soon well not in the UK unless like I say the DC25 is to replace it!  Now the US has 2 versions of the DC17 they may phase out the DC14 in the US or scale down the DC14 range that just my guess.

DC18

DC06 as it was known, Dyson robotic vacuum has never made it to the market.  They are still working on this technology I believe.  I remember the UK website had details on the DC06 and it came with a hose so you could vacuum the stairs so it like replaced the need to have a 'normal' vacuum.  It also had an SR brushless motor too.   I think one thing they have noticed is the need for longer battery power not only to power the robotics and the vacuum around but to still give the same pickup performance as its  'full' size machines.   So the batteries would need to power the motor too.  Thus adding more weight.  I'm sure they will come out with something at some point.  One thing you have to learn about Dyson is they never rush any product to the market!

Where as the Roomba to me doesn't seem that powerful!  It looks like it would only pickup surface dirt and not do a deep clean!

DC18

Yes I have used the comparsion on the Dyson UK Web.  Very useful so you get the right machine.  Yes Dyson does compare it own model against each other which is fine!  The new DC24 is one example 'concentrated technology', same pickup as a full size Dyson!  You don't see Dyson using Oreck on it's website to make its own products look better.  They don't need to do this!  There product stands on it's own merits! They do use general comments like 'other vacuums' etc.. they don't use a particular brand!

DC18

True about the suction more is not always better!  Dyson (and probably Oreck too?) has not really increased the wattage of it's motors over the years.  The highest they do in the UK is a 1400 watt where as other UK brands are now excessing 2000 watts and more!  The Dyson still offers great suction/performance still only using a 1400/1200 watt motor where as other makes are having to up the wattage thinking they are getting and giving better performance!

DC18

DC18 wrote:

Dyson had to learn that lesson in the USA and the DC11 was how it did.

To a lesser extent, dyson learned a lesson with the DC15 too which had an original retail of $600 and when it didn't sell, dyson dropped the price by $100.  And just after 5 months on the market in the USA.

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

Perhaps dyson would not fare very well in comparisons with Oreck and/or other vacuum brands.  I doubt that a man and company who sued other competitors several times for patent imfringement and advertising claims and reaped huge settlements in the process would not compare itself to other brands if it thought it would legitimately win and/or gain more sales by doing so.  Do you?

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

Really?  The DC18, for which you are named, is the the latest dyson upright on the US market and the worse rated of all the dysons according to Consumer Reports.  So......... at least one sanctioned industry source, widely used and viewed as an authoritative consumer buying guide, would contradict your statement.

Carmine D.

So if Dyson wouldn't fare very well in comparison with Oreck why does Oreck think different!  Surely it a 2 way thing!  Dyson doesn't purely because it is 'different', nothing is the same as Dyson!

DC18

Motorhead wrote:

And no one can ignore Oreck's success in over 45 plus years in the US vacuum market. 

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

If longevity is one indication of greatness[ read success], then 45 plus years of Oreck sales in the USA with over 450 Oreck Clean Home Centers and even more independent authorized Oreck sales and service dealers must count for something more than just product bashing.

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

With 500 engineers and 20 plus years of dyson vacuum history, dyson can't rush these robotic products to market. 

Might I dare suggest that if dyson focused on vacuums rather than a plethora of unrelated ill-fated mediocre products that compete for its time and resources, dyson would have had a robotic vacuum to the market by now.  Or... is that conclusion and statement of fact considered 'bashing" by dyson? 

Carmine D.

I don't need to be 'sucked' (excuse the pun!) into these consumer reports be it US or UK or world wide.  I'm not a 'sheep' that follows everyone else and reads these reports and like alot of people take it as it reads.  I make my own mind up about things by actually using the product, and word of mouth.  These so called consumer tests as far as I'm concerned are not carried out in the so called 'real' world.  People should make up their own minds by testing it for themselves!

I've used a DC18 in the UK and there is nothing wrong with it's performance and that goes for the DC15 too!  More is not always best was it not said on here!  As the Oreck has a 457 watt motor everyone seems to think that the performance of this machine is great!!!!

DC18

DC18 wrote:

As you said, I bought the Oreck and use it daily.  I made up my mind for myself.  I like it, use it, recommend it and will continue to do so.  And it just so happens, that Consumer Reports does too.  At least more so than most all the dysons.  45 plus years of sales history is a huge selling point for consumer satisfaction too.  Wouldn't you say?  Especially in commercial use by hotels and motels. 

Carmine D.

I think your forgetting Dyson invents new technology not repackaging old technology and is constantly working on new technology where it comes to anything is a different matter. That is what makes Dyson different.  Also people think that all 500 Engineers are working on just vacuums and in particular one vacuum. These Engineers are working on serveral projects and I would have thought not just vacuum cleaners either! 

DC18

DC18 wrote:

That's my point.  Scatter your time, money, effort and resources for years in too many different unrelated products and what do you get?  Mediocre and unsuccessful product results.  And not one signature product in any.   

Oreck on the other hand focused its time and attention on one product: Lightweight Vacuums.  And has been extremely successful.  And branched out into other venues.  Including a decent air purifier.  Simply amazing!

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

Oreck believes that it has a better vacuum than dyson and wants others to know why.  If you believe in your product and are willing to match it up against the competition head to head, why not?  What's wrong with doing so if you are honest and accurate in your methods and means?  Let consumers decide for themselves what is the best vacuum for them based on all the facts. 

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

Just like the daily usage of an Oreck, if you use the irobot daily to vacuum up the surface dirt, then  it doesn't become imbedded.  And adding a weekly/biweekly thorough vacuuming from a full size upright/tank/cann to the daily usage of an irobot/Oreck complements household cleaning, vacuuming and grooming.  With less effort, energy and time.

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:

DC

I have no intentions of getting into a Dyson v __________ debate, but I would like to make a few points on my own as a simple end user.  Not a vacuum professional, not a collector, just a plain old joe that pushes a vac on a regular basis.

Your last sentence I will most agree with.  To compare a full size vac to a compact is like comparing a big SUV to a Pinto.  What I think Dave Oreck is trying to do is to let the public know is that the Oreck is a viable alternative to larger vacuums, especially for people who have limited physical abilities.  Though I question this in practice, I also know that there are many who would at give the rug a whack with a Oreck daily or weekly, whereas they would hesitate to drag out a Rainbow, Kirby, Dyson, or other heavy machine on a less frequent basis--thus it is a viable alternative.  I think it comes down to practicallity.  Something that will be used on a regular basis is more effective than something that is rarely used. 

With that said I would like to respond, again as just a user to some of your other points.

3.  Why a need for a light?  For those of us with limited or diminishing eyesight the headlight helps us see items that we would otherwise miss.  The light on the vac which is closer to the work area will illuminate a pin or needle, paper clip or penny faster than room light alone especially if there is little contrast between the item and the carpet being cleaned.  I like the headlight feature. Then again I have always had one, and this is what I am used to which is true of many American's.

9.  Energy Usage--As an end user I really don't care.  I just want to pull the darn thing out of it's hiding place, and I expect it to do the job I bought it for.  I never look at the watts it consumes unless it's a light bulb.  In the end I feel it is rather insignificant.  To further that point, I don't know how much electricity my range, or microwave uses. they just have to get the job done.

10.  Dirt storage.  The purpose of the vacuum is to get the dirt out of your house, however, I don't want to have to see it everytime I vacuum.  I would rather take a nice tidy bag and usher it out of my home for good.    I have a Kirby Omega that you can dump the emptor on a newspaper when I feel the need to see the dog hair.  (Again this is preference).

11.  Environmental issues?  Ok I don't buy this one in any form.  Bags are usually paper, which is biodegradeable, dirt in the bag is after all dirt.  I don't see a big impact personally.  Belts--Never have to be replaced? don't buy it.  All parts will wear.  To be correctly advertised I believe it should say "No user replaceable parts" but we all know they have to be replaced sometime.

I will add a couple of mine why I choose a USA built machine.

1.  It's built by someone that can actually afford to own it in the end, not some poor child that doesn't even have electricity in their home, and would have no use for the machine even if they had a disposable income because their home has a dirt floor.  ( I guess this is a fall back to Henry Ford and the Model T, but the worker who builds a machine should be able to own one.   (This excludeds Mercedes and Rolls, these are pretty low volume anyway, and not U.S. made.)

2.  Local service--When something does go wrong, and lets admit that anything made by man will eventually break.  I can take my vac to a local shop, in most cases have a nice chat while it is being repaired and then take it back home.  I don't have to pack it up in a box, send it to a "service center" and wait 12 weeks for them to tell me they aren't   going to fix my piece of plastic and I will have to drop bill or so to get it back.

Let me again stress that I am  responding to your post because you had some very valid points not because I disagree with you. I just want to expand on what the think is from a mere consumer's point of view.

Just,

As one consumer to another, I thank you.

Venson

On a hunch, I decided to Google both "Dyson vs. Oreck" and "Oreck vs. Dyson" and see what I came up with. 

The results?  Blog site #1
                         Blog site #2
                         Forum thread #1
                         Forum thread #2
                         And lastly, an Amazon review.

What can I say?  The proof is in the pudding (or in this case, the pictures).  I got similar results when Googling "Dyson Oreck comparison".

Notice on the two threads on two different forums, you tend to see a few people who had bad experiences with Dysons, but the number of people who praise the Dyson far outweighs that.

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to prove.  I missed your point.  Is it that some users like their dysons and others like their Orecks.  So what?  Specifically, in one review you citted an old as is hand-me-down Oreck in the family for almost a generation was matched up to a new dyson, and the grandson who inherited the old Oreck liked the new dyson better.  Wow!  I'm impressed with that finding and conclusion.  So what?

I'll trust my experiences with the Oreck XL Classic and the DC07 pink IN MY HOME in addition to the Consumer Reports' findings over the goofy links you provided.  AND.................

Furthermore, and more importantly, both the builder and subcontractors who supplied and installed the Mohawk carpets in my current Las Vegas home and in all the other homes like it in my community [about 3,000 in total] expressly warn and discourage [AND STILL DO] ALL the homeowners from buying and using ANY DYSON VACUUMS on their carpets in these homes.  Every month at homeowner seminars on the care of the floors and carpets, they put out the warnings and recommendations.  The last of the new houses are being sold now and the community will be finished.

ALWAYS recommended by them to all the attendees are HOOVER uprights and Orecks.  Why?  For personal and professional reasons AND the Carpet and Rug Institute of America certifications for both HOOVER and Oreck vacuums.  AND NOT FOR ANY DYSONS. 

Now, please tell us again what you were stating about the proof in the pudding an/or anywhere else?  I missed it in those silly links you cited.

Carmine D.

It proves that from an "average buyer" standpoint (not any tests from consumer organizations benefiting from said tests, vac shop "reviews", etc.), the Dyson does appear to be better than the Oreck (do a Google search like I did and see what you come up with, the results will be the same), AS WELL as the fact that it spreads through word of mouth!  Look in those posts, blogs, etc. and there will always be some relative, acquaintance, etc. praising it.  I don't think I've ever heard anyone talking about their Oreck, Hoover, Dirt Devil, you name it that way.  You don't have to take it seriously to see it's THERE. 

Whether or not any vacuum is certified or endorsed by organizations such as the "Carpet and Rug Institute of America" is both irrelevant and pointless.  That certification for Hoovers and Orecks, as well as the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America certification for Dysons (trying not to be one-sided here) does not mean anything in the end, just an advertising gimmick.  Speaking of which, CR brought the AAFA "Certification" to light a couple of years ago in their test of air purifiers, citing the endorsement of the useless Ionic Breeze as an example.

-MH

Motorhead wrote:

Why would I want to do any search and any research, when I've used both a DC07 pink and an Oreck XL Classic in my home and found the Oreck was the better vacuum.  What more proof do I need?  I gifted the dyson away and I'm still using the Oreck XL.  Dah! 

And my results were VERIFIED and CERTIFIED by the builder of my home and his subcontractors who supplied and installed the new Mohawk carpets in 3,000 homes in my development.  These links you provided are better proof than the home builder, the rug subcontractor and me.  I don't agree and I still don't get your point! 

If I posted my results on one of your silly links, then you would believe me?  Because it's there.  Yeah, right.  Good point.  Conclusive finding.

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

CR has NEVER questioned and/or doubted the CRI certification.  NEVER.  I agreed with CR on the Ionic Breeze.  I said so on several Forums BEFORE the Ionic Breeze buyers brought a class action suit against it and won.

You can impugn and deny the reliability of the CRI certification all you want.   That's your right.  But it doesn't make you right. 

YOU CAN'T DETERMINE AND DICTATE TO ME AND OTHERS WHAT CERTIFICATIONS ARE VALID AND/OR RELEVANT AS SUPPORT FOR THEIR VACUUM CLEANER PURCHASE DECISIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS.  Just because you don't agree.  That's arrogant and haughty on your part. 

Let people decide for themselves what and who they believe and why.  If it's you-fine.  If it's CRI, that's their right just as it is your right not to believe.  

Why are you "bashing" the CRI certification?  Do you concrete evidence of CRI certifications that are wrong, bad, and/or unsubstantiated?  Please share with us here.  Or, are you just bashing CRI because I and others choose to accept their findings about HOOVER and ORECK but you don't?  Either way, I don't really care what you think about the CRI certifications.  I use them and I recommend them and I will continue to.  So do many other industry insiders and outsiders. 

Citing an irrelevant and totally unrelated certification for a scam fad product not related in any way to the vacuum industry and vacuums HAS ABSOLUTELY NOT ONE IOTA OF AN EFFECT AND IMPACT on the CRI Certification and its reliability.  None whatsover.  In other words, it is completely and utterly ridiculous. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Abby's Guide Terms of Service.

User must agree with all of the following statements prior to becoming a member.

AbbysGuide is a community of people helping people make good decisions. Please treat people how you would like to be treated. Foul language, personal attacks or behavior that is disruptive to the helpful atmosphere of the sites will result in that member being banned from the sites.  Here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------.

Carmine, your way out of line.  You’ve posted 164 times in 30 days, most of which attack Dyson, the man, his people, his products and his supporters.  I and others post some pretty cool and hard to find information and pictures, a commodity for Google indexing and searching.  Is this the Carmine blog?   I do though wonder if, God forbid, a kid gets on here (indiscernibly) and posts their love for their moms Dyson only to have you and mole jump down his or her throat.       DIB

This isn't your blog and/or a dyson web site either.  Which is what most recent vacuum Forums have become:  Everything that is dyson even if it is unrelated to vacuums [read dyson airblades, ball barrels and washers]. 

This thread according to the subject is about the Oreck XL 21.  Several posts and posters are intentionally using it to promote the dyson at the expense of Oreck.  How?  By BASHING the Oreck and bashing industry authorities, sources and experts like Consumer Reports and the Carpet and Rug Institute which praise and/or approve Orecks.  In most cases, over dysons.  Both of which [CR and CRI] in addition to ORECK advertise on this site.  JUST LIKE DYSON retailers advertise here.  In part the reason for the Abbey's guidelines on verbal civility and decorum.

Did you miss those posts and posters because your focus is pro-dyson and anti anyone who posts to the contrary?  Like me?  

I like my Oreck XL Classic [as does my dear Wife and two family members I gifted them to].  The Oreck XL Classic for $150 outperforms the dyson DC07 pink for $400 in my home hands down.  I've reviewed the Oreck XL Classic on this site.  I could have reviewed the DC07 pink too, which was terrible.  And document in my dyson review the useless and foolish assistance I received from their technical support.  Which after several attempts was finally: Return the dyson to the retailer for a full refund, it will not clean your carpets.  I did not, YET.  But perhaps I will in the future.  To the dyson tech assistance credit, its advice about dysons is the same as my builder and his rug supplier and subcontractors:  Don't buy and use any dyson products on your carpets.

On this thread, I will respond to attacks and negative comments by Oreck bashers.  I have that privilege and the wherewithal.

If you don't like what I say about the Oreck XL Classic, then skip over my posts.  Read/post dyson pictures and dyson information instead.  You are very good at this too and in the process you are promoting jaydee and all his products.  You are proud of doing it!  You relish in it.  No doubt the reason for the name you use here.  I prefer to use my real name and real identity.  Not a fictitious one with specific product/company overtones. 

Different strokes for different folks!

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

I would say that the opinions given,are from people that either work for dyson,or no someone that works or have worked for dyson.And i might add that they are giving FACTS that  are based on the DYSON PROPAGANGA BOOKLET.

I just love my dyson dc21 canister,because they said it never has to be repaired or will break,and has a lifetime warranty.[THIS MUST BE TRUE BECAUSE IT WAS ON THE BLOG.]

MOLE

DysonInventsBig wrote:

This statement and reference is meaningless and utterly ridiculous.  It never happened save your speculation that it may/could.

I and others can make the same hypothesis about an innocent youngster posting his/her love for an Oreck XL on this thread and the likely reponses from some pro-dyson posters in return.  My hypothesis is more likely too since Orecks are much easier and simpler to use than dysons.  

It's an attack [read bashing] on Mole and I by you.  We have said and done nothing like it.

Carmine D.

I just wanted to thank you all for your input and passions.

Motorhead, thank you for posting the links.  They were very informative.

I would lke to say that the purpose of the discussion between Carmine D., Mole and myself were not meant to compare the two machines; for as I have stated in a prior post it is an unfair comparison.   I am currently interested in the Oreck or Simplicity Freedom as a second (ok actually fifth) vacuum in my home.  I am interested in a light weight for quick jobs.  I would retain my monsters for the heavy cleaning.  

For this purpose I think the Oreck, Simplicy Freedom or the Roomba fills a nice area of the segment.  To say they would be a replacement for a larger more powerful machine would be about as unfair of a comparison as if  one were to compare off road ability of a Hummer and an Aveo.  The two were designed for different purposes and thus perform a different duty.

I do feel as the Boomers age they will be migrating to lighter, easier to manuver machines in order to remain independent.  As I stated before the most effective vacuum is one that is used.  If someone is more incined to pull an Oreck out of the closet a couple of times a week; it will be more effective than a heavier vac that is used once a month.

My dream for the future is to have a central vac installed.  To compare a central to a portable again would be unfair they each have their advantages and disadvantages.  The biggest advantage to a Central vac--The neighbors can't ask to borrow it.

Have a great day all.

Motorhead wrote:

How come the posters ,most of time mention that their dysons are expensive but worth every penny,are they trying to justify getting ripped off.

B.T.W . quess who's making the money, I clue you guys in it's not the dealers.

MOLE

Just wrote:

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine, read my post again.  I NEVER mentioned CR bringing up the CRI certification; they never did.  What I DID say was that CR DID bring the AAFA and British Allergy Foundation to light in an air purifier test a few years ago, and I put that CRI certification in the same category.  Yes, it may be an assumption on my part until I'm able to dig up some valid proof, but it's a logical one...it doesn't take rocket science to read through all of those "certifications" on ANY product out there, not just vacuums or air purifiers.  I wasn't trying to be "arrogant" or "haughty", nor was I trying to impose any suggestions of any kind for anyone on what to believe.  Indeed, there are some who take these ratings or certifications seriously and some who don't, it doesn't matter to me AT ALL and never did.  Your comment borderlined on a personal attack for saying so. 

CarmineD wrote:

Since this thread was originally about Orecks, if I was the one who had turned it into a Dyson discussion I would apologize for "hijacking" the thread.  However, if you look through the posts...none of the Dyson supporters here (including myself) started in on it in the beginning!  It was only when the "Oreck vs. Dyson" comparison was brought up that I and others decided to add our 2 cents.  So, in the end, who really encouraged it and changed the focus of the thread? 

I wouldn't consider any of us "promoting" Dysons, just like I wouldn't consider anyone else "promoting" anything else.  We like them because we like them, that's all there is to it.  People have positive and negative experiences with every machine, we happen to have had a positive experience using Dysons.  No different from anyone liking Hoover, Oreck, Miele, Riccar, or any other brand.

On a more serious note, in regards to Just's post about a secondary machine, I agree that while the Roomba has improved since it was first introduced, it hasn't been perfected enough to where I would want to use one in between cleanings.  One thing I noticed was that the Roomba still cleans by "random walk" method rather than mapping out the room in a set pattern.  Some areas remain untouched or passed over once or twice, while others receive multiple passes.

I'd rather use an actual lightweight vacuum for an "in-between" machine, such as the Tacony or even the TTI-made lightweight, both of which I like and to me are good machines.

Motorhead wrote:

You should know the answer to that question.  You.  How?  By accusing [on more than one occasion] Oreck of bashing dyson.  Or your comment: Don't even get me started on the Oreck canister!   Which happens to be a favorite of mine!  And what does it have to do with the Oreck XL 21?  Are you going to look back and devise a phony excuse to blame this comment on somebody else too?

The link I posted [which came off this board] with a checklist of comparative features and specifications for Oreck vice dyson is not dyson bashing.  As I explained already.  It deteriorated to a free for all when ALL the dyson posters jumped on board and used the link [as an excuse as you mentioned] to "hijack" the thread.  Excellent word.  It's exactly what you ALL did.  Ironically, DIB was not in that free for all with you and the dyson fans.  Until the end of the foray between you and I.  I guess, he felt it necessary to put in his 2 cents worth, as you like to say. On your behalf of course.  By bashing Mole and I with a hypothetical question and event that never happened.  Why does this technique have such an old familiar ring to it?   Almost 6 years in the making. 

This is a common ploy and practice by dysoners.  Why?  To take vacuum Forums hostage and use them as self-serving dyson boards to praise and glorify all dyson products whether they are vacuums or not.  I'd defintely say that's promoting.  And it's easy to spot you.  You all have dyson related names either their products/company name.  Well, there are alot more vacuum products better and able to serve consumer needs than your favorite brand dyson.  As a vacuum collector you know that firsthand.  If I am to understand your summary findings on the dyson vacuums, you don't like the DC07, DC14, DC15, but do like the DC17.  I'm not sure about your take on the DC18.  But since there is someone on here with that name, dyson fans have it covered.

I think from the reactions and posts here, we [myself included] are onto you and your dyson ways and means.  

And if you ALL continue with the same dyson methods as the past, it should get very interesting on here.  Like it has recently.

Carmine D.

Lucky1 wrote:

Excellent lightweight vacuums.  Consumer Reports consistently rates the RICCAR SupraLite [and the Simplicity Freedom series] above Orecks.  In the latest rankings and ratings, they garner an 8 overall while Oreck manages an 11.  Prices for the RICCAR and Simplicity are comparable to the Oreck XL Deluxe models at $300-$400.  But of course, the Oreck price includes the giveaways.

A similar lightweight upright as the RICCAR is badged as a HOOVER Ultra Lightweight.  And HOOVER recently, under the tutalege of TTI, brought a new lightweight upright to market similar to all the above for about $200.  These HOOVER uprights are sold through the big box retailers. 

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

Very telling introductory remark, which followed your "let's all make up and be nice again" on this thread. 

I infer that the 'hijacking' [your word, not mine] of this thread and the ensuing Oreck bashing are not serious matters in your view.  Just another fun time had by all on the Forum for you and the dysoners.  Until you are challenged.  Since you now announced the desist and retreat, you are ready to put out the word that its time now to get serious.  And back to the business of this Forum.  Thank you for your permission.  

Carmine D.

It is really time to let this thing go.  It does not mean that it will go away.  It will come back again, I am sure.  Everyone has said their peace about the subject.

Mike W.(Moderator)

Mike_W wrote:

If the past is any prediction of the future, you can count on it.  And I'm ready to rumble.

Carmine D.

Yes this link is just about the Oreck XL21 but as there was a link posted on this thread to Oreck website where Oreck was comparing it to Dyson that is why the subject has digressed!  All I can say it answered one question for me.  Oreck can not replace or do as good a job of a full size vacuum even though Oreck says it can on his website a few of you have proved and mentioned it 's  used as a second cleaner and a full size vacuum is used for deeper vacuuming!  I'd rather do a proper job to start of with!

DC18

Thanks Just for your comments/observations.

DC18

DC18 wrote:

Well smartee, add this to my observations and comments.

As I said, I use the Oreck daily for vacuuming and complement with a full size like the HOOVER WT weekly and as needed.

This week I changed up.  I noted the HOOVER's full bag indicator was beginning to edge off it's mark.  Not that it is full.  Probably half.  I don't wait until it fully engages and the bag is full.  In part because of my dear Wife's allergy and sinus issues.

So, this week I've been vacuuming with the HOOVER.  Any full size would do.  In part, because I want to change the bag this week [tomorrow].

Well, after a week of doing so [vacuuming with the full size], this morning I threw my back out feeding the dog.  Bending over as I do all the time.  Old Army injury.  But aggravated over the years with age and neglect and abuse. It will take about 14 days to get back to normal with a routine of 3 kinds of medications [all prescription] daily with different dosages starting on full to final weaning off as pain subsides.  Of course the medications have other physical side effects which I've learned to deal with.

No doubt the reason is using the HOOVER this week and not the Oreck.  And my dear Wife will tell me so, as she's done in the past.  Let me also add, that the HOOVER WT has the embedded dirt finder lights.  And without fail, whenever I change from Oreck to HOOVER, and vacuum over the areas I used the Oreck, the HOOVER indicator stays green.  NO dirt.  Not with the dyson DC07 Pink.  Use the dyson, vacuum over with the HOOVER and red light stays on for a few passes [picking up] , then goes green.

My sense is there are about 80 million or more Americans like me [read old with physical limitations] in the US.  Perfect candidates for Oreck and lightweight vacuums.  Not to mention all the hotel and motel staff who would eventually develop similar back problems problems as mine if they lugged dysons and full sized vacuums around for daily cleaning for years.  No doubt the reason, in part, jaydee added the DC18 for which you took your name here and a bunch of new baby dysons.  Maybe he's looking to tap into Oreck's lock on the hotel and motel rug cleaning in the US?  NEVER HAPPEN. 

LIke your other dyson buddies here and on other vacuum Forums you too look for excuses and others to blame to promote your pro dyson drivel whenever you can.  Own up and continue to post your dyson pics which is what you are good at.  You and your dyson clan want to continue bashing Oreck here, I'm ready to take you on and defend it.  Let's get it on.  

Mike if you want to lock this thread, censor me, edit and/or whatever else you do as Moderator when the dysoners get out of control, do it.  That's what the dysoners want isn't it?  And you oblige and fall right into their hands.

Carmine D.

I'm not 'bashing' Oreck just making observations and general comments from comments and links put on this and any other thread on here.

I'm not getting into an argument or debate as there is no need too.   I don't use excuses or lay blame on other products to make Dyson look good.  I just make inpartical observations and comments like everyone else on here.

DC18

With a name like DC18, it's clear to me based on your posts that you are here for ONE reason and one reason only:  To promote dyson and everything with its name.  Just like dysoners have done on all other vacuum forums, only in the past they used their names.  That's my impartial opinion.  Based on your posts and pics. 

Didn't one of you dysoners post early on in this Page words to effect: "Let's keep the dyson threads on top of the page so keep posting!"  If that's not promoting, what then?  Impartial opinions and comments?  "Playing" as Mike likes to call it.  Sell it to Mike and jaydee, not me.  I'm not buying it. 

That's fine. Different strokes for different strokes.  Do it on the dyson boards and on the dyson threads.  So people like me and others who want to skip over the same old dyson drivel you post can read about the vacuums of our choice and interest.  Not yours and dysoners. 

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify for you and all your dyson fans my impartial and objective opinion based on the comments and narrative expressed herein.  I sincerely appreciate it.

Carmine D.

I read all the threads on here with general interest.  If I was just a pure Dyson Fan why did I post a new thread about Vax UK launching the Mach series of vacs (same as the Hoover US ones).  I wouldn't have bothered doing so if that was the case.  I have an interest in Vax as well since we had one of there first UK  3 in 1 machines.  I also have an interest in the Sebo Felix (UK) but I prefer to use Dyson like yourself prefers the Oreck and Hoover.  Same as I prefer Bissell carpet cleaning machines over the Vax ones but I still look with interest as to what all the vacuum cleaners manufactors are doing!

DC18

"There's so much more to come from the Cyclonic King!"  Sound familiar.

Promoting dyson, Mr. DC18.  The rest is all window dressing.  Sell it to Mike and jaydee.  Own up.  Let's cut through the chafe and get to the wheat.  You and your dyson clan are here to promote dyson.  Plain and simple.  Do it on dyson boards and threads.  So I and others can skip it.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

But Carmine,THE BAG WAS HOPELESSLY CLOGGED......

MOLE

Well, if we want to start talking about the effectiveness of dirt sensor lights, and dirt sensor-equipped machines vs. Dysons, may I provide an example from a DC17 review on the Target website:  http://www.target.com/Dyson-DC17-Animal-Vacuum...

The review is the last one on the bottom of the page.  In it, the customer says:

8 of 8 people found the following review helpful: Worth the money, October 2, 2007

Reviewer:

Anne "Anne" (Ashland) - See all my reviews

I vacuum my home with my Hoover Windtunnel till the green (clean) light remained on. Then I used the animal to vacuum the same areas the amount of dirt and hair was amazing. I wish I had this vacuum when my kids were little. We have 2 cats and two dogs and the vacuum is very powerful. I know some have complained that the vacuum has damaged carpet, but to me that proves that the suction power is the best. You just need to use common sence when vacuuming. The rooms even smell fresher after vacuuming. I have noticed that my allergies are not as bad after using the vacuum for 3 weeks. I have also noticed that I do not have to dust as often.
I really like being able to see the amount of dirt instantly. The attachments are easy to use, once you figure things out. The instructions are more pictures then words. But the tools really help in getting pet hair off of furniture. I have used the vacuum in my car after taken the care to CARPOOL and the amount of hair and dirt the animal removed again amazing. You will definately feel that you have actually cleaned your home when you vacuum with the dyson.

I've known all along that a dirt sensor isn't an effective measure of what is being picked up...even CR has said this many times over the years, the March 1996 report I've referenced before being one of them!  I'd rather see the dirt itself; at least I know the machine is picking up.

Incidentally, I wasn't hunting for Dyson reviews when I found it.  I was looking on the Target website to see if the new Eureka AirExtreme canister was on there, noticed some low reviews for Eureka uprights, and decided to see what the Dyson ratings were.  So, I checked them out and this was the result.  I'll have to see if there are any reviews, both positive and negative, from any former Oreck owners.

-MH

Well lets' see now.  First it was you Motor Mouth, then Dyson Invents Big [read expensive] then DC18 with there's more great things to come from the Cyclonic King and now its you again.  Trying hard to get Mike to banish me from the Page?  Right?  That's your motive isn't it?  So you and your dyson cronies can continue unchallenged with your dyson promotions and drivel.  Well I got news for you.  Let's get it on.

Let me tell you again as I did before on this thread.  As a dyson promoter yourself and alleged vacuum collector man, [what is your logo?]  I don't care what your anonymous reviewer, who I don't know and don't want to,  says about the HOOVER WT and the embedded dirt finder lights.  For all I know it is you.  Or another dysoner, paid to say it.  Maybe you are paid by dyson to post what you say here.  I don't know.  I don't really care.  Why?

I'll stick by and with MY OWN PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCES with the HOOVER WT, Oreck Classic and dyson DC07 Pink in my home on my carpets.  AND the words of warning from the builder and his rug sub contractors to 3000 plus new home buyers:  DO NOT, repeat DO NOT, buy dysons for the rugs.  They won't work.  Which is the same advice the dyson tech line gave me when it was obvious to them that the dyson DC07 pink couldn't make one pass on my rugs without the gawdawful ratcheting noise.   AND the certifications by the Rug and Carpet Institute of America which recommend HOOVER and Oreck vacuums [read not dysons]. 

Now, how many more of your dyson promoters want in on this thread about Oreck?

Let's get it on!  Next dysoner please.

But really on a more serious note, the point of my post was to say that Orecks and lightweight vacuums provide a useful and effective alternative to daily vacuuming than a full size vacuum for persons like me [read old and physically challenged].  And hotel and motel cleaning staff who have been using Orecks for over 40 years [with complete satisfaction] so they avoid developing the same ailments from daily use of heavy full size vacuums.

Thank for the opportunity to clarify my impartial opinions for you based on your posts and links provided herein.  I sincerely appreciate it.

Carmine D.

One key thing I didn't mention in my previous post (probably isn't worth mentioning as most are aware of it but I'll say it anyway) is that with a dirt sensor equipped machine, the dirt sensor is only an indicator of when the cleaner has stopped picking up.  That doesn't necessarily mean there's no dirt in the carpet.  So there's a good chance the WindTunnel was (hopelessly) clogged and wasn't picking up well.  Or, as James would say, wasn't working "properly".

I took the review directly from Target, where it was posted by a customer who had purchased a DC17 Animal.  Whether she (or the other happy Dyson customers) were paid to write their reviews, I have no idea.  Keep in mind there are both positive and negative reviews for that particular DC17, on the same page that I linked to and on other pages.  So I wouldn't think so.  In fact, I was scrolling through the DC14 All Floors review section, and found a person who didn't care for the DC14 and liked their old Oreck better.  To each his or her own, in the end.

-MH

Hey guys,

Not meaning to start anything but I've heard this claim so many times before regarding so many vacuums.  "I vacuumed my house with my regular vacuum and then followed with the "Miracle Vac" and I couldn't believe all the dirt I picked up."  For once I'd love to hear the story the other way round . . .

"I got the Miracle Vac out of the box and went over my whole house and then I pulled out my regular vacuum . . ."  It would be very interesting to hear the result and far more worthwhile.

OR how about, "I vacuumed with the Miracle Vac got a load of dirt and went back, vacuumed with it again and couldn't find a speck of dirt."  Then you'd be really talking about something.

Venson

Hi Venson,

I think it would work the same way with either machine...the second one is bound to pick up more than the first.  From what I hear it's an old sales tactic.  Kirby salesmen are notorious for this, little does the unsuspecting buyer know that they could go over the same area again after the Kirby and still collect dirt.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine;

I feel so popular, because you mentioned my name approx. three times in this thread.  Your statement is quite funny, since you can find "dysoners" who would tell you that I fall right into your hands.   How soon you forget, Carmine.

I made a statement above in order to end the debate or argument.  Most made their point known.  After that, you are just repeating yourself.  Everyone of you knows where each of you stand. 

Mike W.(Moderator)

 

 

Mike_W wrote:

My old friend:

My statement was not intended to be funny.  But I hope it made you laugh.

The problem is........... I don't forget.  I remember all too well. 

Today, being the First Sunday of the Month, and me a religious man who keeps the Sabbath holy, I'll let tom dyson gashole [alias Motor Mouth/Head] and his band of merry dysoners spew their dyson drivel [read bashing anything and anyone that competes with dyson] and not respond. 

Please don't confuse my abstaining as giving in.  No. No. Not so Mike and dysoners.  Like the song says: I've only just begun.

Again, on a more serious note, my sincere thanks and appreciation for being given the opportunity to express my impartial opinions and comments based on the posts and links expressed herein. 

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

Hey M.H., how do you know that the dyson works properly?.Is it because Jimmy says it does.Do you have any first hand proof that it does?Do you work for Dyson?.Did you actually have anything to do with the set up on the machine?Have you ever sat with Jimmy and gone over his inventions?.Did you personally keep airway in business for a while?.Do you take credit for putting the end to Hoover?. Do you still run around the country promoting dyson?,do you still complain to your buddies in the southern part of the country.And by the way Tommy Anderson,says HI...................

MOLE

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

First off, my name isn't Tom.  That being said, due to the nature of the Internet I prefer to keep anonymous on here like a lot of people.  I am not affiliated with Dyson in any way shape or form, I just own a DC21 Stowaway canister that has changed my opinion on it greatly.  Also, I have not been this Dyson "addict" (for lack of a better word) all my life.  Like many, I was in fact skeptical of the Dyson cleaner when it came out 6 years ago!  I bet you were not aware of that.

Second of all, why must you attack anyone who supports the Dyson and resort to using personal attacks (no less) as such?  You and Mole criticize the Dyson and James Dyson incessantly, yet when we constructively criticize the Oreck, you call it "bashing".  Is there a double standard I'm missing?  You seem to take the Forums way too seriously, calling us "dysoners" like we're some kind of a cult or something.  Please.  That and "jaydee" are two of the most laughable phrases I've heard (not to mention ridiculous) and serve no purpose other than making you look foolish (and immature).  In addition, you make the "Motor mouth" comment.  I find that interesting, why?  Well, I have been here for 3 months and have posted 85 times, including this one.  You have been here for a little over 1 month and have twice the amount of posts I have.  Enough said.

Mole,

How do I know that the Dyson works properly and isn't all hype like most everything else out there?  Well, let's see.  I've vacuumed up the contents of various machines, such as a Filter Queen bin and other bags/etc., and the Dyson has handled it all without losing suction or airflow.  I have not babied my DC21 by any means.  And now do I know that it's not losing power?  Simple.  I can tell if a machine's power is dropping off by hearing the change in motor pitch.  My DC21 does not do that, and the suction remains constant.  As for your other comments, those had me lost so I have no idea what you were talking about.

At any rate, I've said all there is to say about the Dyson and it seems that defending it is futile.  I have no desire to continue this childish "debate", answering these blatently snide comments, so this is my last post on this thread as such.  You two continue all you like.

-MH