Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

The Dyson DC22 canister was very recently introduced in Japan. I have heard that this will make it to the US market in order to expand their canister range.

Key Features:

-Root Cyclone with Core Separation
-Dyson Digital Motor
-Stowaway Design
-Motorhead
-Pre filter rinse once every seven years

Wait. Now how many Cyclone are their?

It's rather larger

Thanks for the pics.

It looks like a full sized canister with Level 3 technology.  I hope James found a way to keep the weight down, typically more cones equates to more weight.

Not quite sure why the high efficiency inner-bins need to be so large (the outer is almost as big in diameter as the shroud itself.

With it's large profile, the DDM and Level3 Root Cyclone (or 'core separation' - I like that better) it's surely destined to be on the US market in the near future.  Clearly, Dyson wants to step up to the mantle for the most powerful canister.

1) I wonder if it'll have a motorhead option or will the immense power be enough to spin the turbine head at a good speed? It looks like the wand has a flat part which could contain electrical contacts?

2) It looks like the pre-motor filter goes 'inside' the right-hand wheel? I wonder if this placement, the digital motor and the space saved will mean that the power cord on the winder drum can be longer than usual?

3) I like the improvement in usability for the power / cord winder button, it's very clear in their functions. It looks like the power button glows green in use and turns red if there's an obstruction.

4) It isn't obvious if this model has the phone-based diagnostic function or not?

You'll find many DC22 answers here - Dyson DC22 launch. 

The DC22 is certainly different and larger for Japan market!  Another spin on the Level 3 Root Cyclone technology.  Maintenance free too!  Looking at the outer bin and shroud there does seem a lot of space between the 2!  Could see some larger objects getting obstructed!   Dyson seems to liked the cansiter market at the moment, with all the last few models being canisters DC19, 20, 21 and now the DC22!

Looking at the small cyclones on the top there must be about 14 or 15 of them.  To me this is a spin on the original DC08/DC08 TW that had 12 small cyclones!  Strange the DC19/20 and DC21 motorhead went to 8 small cyclones then looking at the new core separation/root cyclone on the DC22 they have revisted the 12 plus small cyclone but inclcuing the larger inner cyclone (level 3!).  DC17 has 2 smaller inner cyclones for the level 3!

DC18

[DC22 series]
Product name Product Name		ddm motorhead Motorhead ddm	ddm turbinehead Ddm turbinehead	motorhead Motorhead	turbinehead Turbinehead
[daisondejitarumota] DAISONDEJITARUMOTA		�›	�›	- --	- --
Motor equipped head Motor head		�›	- --	�›	- --
Attachment nozzle Attached nozzle	Micro turbine head MAIKUROTABINHEDDO	�›	�›	�›	- --
	Software brush tool SOFUTOBURA$#%*SURU	�›	�›	- --	- --
	[hutontsuru] FUTON tool	�›	�›	�›	�›
	Flexible opening nozzle Flexible nozzle openings	�›	�›	- --	- --
Manufacturer guarantee Manufacturer's warranty		5 years 5 years		2 years Two years
Substance size Body Size (Width ## depth ## height) (Width x depth x height)		397�~255�~292mm 397 x 255 x 292mm
Basic machine weight Body weight		4.8kg 4.8 kg 4.8 kg = 10.58 lb		4.9kg 4.9 kg 4.9 kg = 10.80 lb
Desired retail price Suggested retail price		Open price Open Offers
Shop front expectation price Over-the-counter expected price		Approximately 98,000 Yen 98,000 yen around	Approximately 94,000 Yen 94,000 yen around	Approximately 78,000 Yen 78,000 yen around	Approximately 76,000 Yen 76,000 yen around

Converted DC22 prices - yen to dollars and converted weights.  Any comments?

98,000.00 JPY = 850.86 USD

94,000.00 JPY = 816.22 USD

78,000.00 JPY = 677.33 USD

76,000.00 JPY = 659.96 USD

Now this is a machine I'm VERY anxious to see (and buy), even more so than I was with the DC21 Motorhead earlier this year.  That was one of the reasons why I bought one of those right when they were released exclusively to vac shops last April, before they debuted in big-box stores.   First it was a canister with an electric P/N, now it's one (finally) with the "digital" motor!  I had heard about the Dyson digital motor technology a few years back, but always wondered when they were going to bring it to the US...this is great.  The DC22 is supposed to be released to the US in April of 2008.  The "digital" motor (that is nearly identical to the switched-reluctance motor in the current Rainbow E-series) runs the plastic suction fans at a speed of 100,000 RPM, delivering 165" of water lift.  Can't remember what I heard about the air watt rating, but I know it's high.  The Motorhead will be slightly narrower than the one on the DC21, but otherwise the same, and yes, the pre-motor filter is accessed via the right wheel.  The price I believe will be $899 retail, wholesale about $630.  I'll keep everyone posted with any more information I hear.  Definitely seems like it will be the most powerful machine on the market.

Hopefully with this one, the slight quirks of the DC21 will be eliminated.  I HOPE the power cord is longer, though the DC21's long hose made up for it.  Better small attachments wouldn't hurt, either, although it appears that's not the case.  I don't really care for that large wand setup either, it took me some getting used to but I still would rather have the hose detach further up.  My main gripe, though, would be that awful trap-door assembly on the bin.  That is the one thing I don't care for on bagless machines.  On the DC21; the bin and cyclone assembly separate, and I can empty it slowly...no dust cloud there.  Just means I'll have to close the trashcan quickly ;-)

I also heard some talk about a self-propelled upright, and a commercial upright, both based on the DC17.  Can anyone confirm this?

Do Dyson canisters have a small wheel(s) on the undercarriage so that you can drag it across the floor?

Dyson should really build a DC15 successor with the inclusion of the aggressive brush roll and refined updates of the DC17, and the DDM and Root Cyclone + Core Separator of the DC22. With the estimated retail price of the DC22 being $800-900 USDM, I can only imagine such a flagship upright being close to that price range as well. I believe the DDM is very small and lightweight, so that would shave some weight off a full size 'Ball' design. However, with a Dyson upright in the $800 range, I would love to see them experiment with more exotic lightweight materials like anodized aluminum, and carbon fiber. That would be great if they can get a DC15 successor with the weight on par with the DC18. Also, I would like to see Dyson offer at least three optional brush rolls with three different grades of bristle stiffness that would be suitable for a wide range of carpets from plush high pile to stiff looped berber carpets.

And again dyson's KEY FEATURES,OFFER NO BENEFITS TO THE CONSUMER.How many people care about a digital motor that cant be repaired?

mole

iMacDaddy wrote:
When you pull on the hose, it 'up ends' the machine so that it balances on the two side wheels. There also tends to be 3rd 'jockey wheel' on the front of the underside.

iMacDaddy wrote:

Reducing the weight on the DC15 would be a good step - Dyson uprights are surprisingly light once you remove the motor. Problem with 'the ball' on the DC15 is that it's arrangement with the ducting and the retractable undercarriage with all it's springs and washers makes it a complex machine to assemble and less durable than the 2nd version used in the DC18. Presumely, they only keep the DC15 Animal on sale because it can collect more per hair than the DC18. A choice of brushrolls would be possible with the new cog arrangement, but it would add a cost for a feature that I'd presume that 95% of consumers wouldn't care for.

mole wrote:

Well, in the table above, you'll see that Dyson are offering an extended guarantee for folks that choose the digital motor version, so that's one benefit.

The other benefits are harder to quantify. Firstly, one possible disadvantage is that digital motor in previous vacuums is somewhat louder than a standard motor.
The other benefits are of size and weight, plus presumably you don't require a post motor filter? However, these are moot points if they're designing models where the digital motor is available as an option.

M00seUK wrote:
Wow, so a standard carbon-brush motor is offered alongside the new digital motor?  I didn't see that before...I wonder if this will be carried over to the US as well and people will have the option to select the digital motor?  As far as I know there is a post-motor HEPA on the DC22 much like there is on the DC21, although with the digital motor there's really no carbon-brush dust to catch ;-)

Whether or not the motor can be repaired makes me wonder how much stress (and heat) 100,000 RPM will put on the bearings, and how the bearings are made.  No doubt those will go first much like on many other machines.  I hope they at least had the sense to allow the bearings to be replaced...IMO that would be a waste if you had to replace the motor in its entirety.  I wonder how long it will take before Dyson starts using magnetic bearings where there are no rotating parts, and the armature is just held in place by strong magnetic fields.  Now that's a motor that would (theoretically) last a lifetime. 

I don't own one unfortunately, but I've used a 2-speed Rainbow E-series with the "hurricane" motor before which according to what I heard is similar to this.  Except on startup, it doesn't sound any different than a standard motor on high speed, but then again, it's only going about 30,000 RPM, not 100,000!  There's about a 1-second delay right when you flip the switch and the motor comes on, and the sound it makes on startup is quite interesting.  Sort of like an electronic "revving" sound if that makes any sense.  But if you put that one and a machine with a brush-type motor side by side, both on and running, and had someone come in to the room blindfolded, they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. 

I agree with IMacDaddy on what he said about the DC15...a redesign would definitely make a winner there.  From my experience the current DC15 design is very top-heavy and is horrible at bare-floor pickup.  The DC07 and DC14 have quite a few shortcomings and just need to go completely, in my opinion, especially now with the introduction of the DC17, 18, and 21.  With that self-propelled upright and the DC22 added to the model line the gaps would be filled. 

Re:  What’s the real difference between the DDM DC22 vs. carbon motor DC22 aside from price?

 

• The DDM is a “Maintenance Free” vacuum (no pre-motor filter cleaning/replacement for up to 7 yrs.)
• Logic tells me…  The carbon brush motor will be James’ typical wash-every-6-months pre-motor filter.

Why the “Maintenance Free” vacuum?  Two reasons…

1)      A friend predicted that James would have pc board failures eventually if he did not figure out how to always

have “clean air” to cool the DC12’s board. – Owners do not properly clean and maintain their pre-motor filters

and in a DDM vacuum this results in overheating and board failure. - Hence the DC22, with 1)  Dyson’s best

cyclonic filtering (perhaps best in the world) 2) a pre-motor monster filter and 3) a filter wash/replacement indicator

light or shut off (see power button, outer ring light – green = clean filter, red = dirty filter).

2)      James perhaps has now the worlds first and only… cleanest filtering and maintenance free vacuum.  And!- He

still has the DC12 if one wants a super compact yet powerful vacuum.  Not bad!

 

DIB

More Japanses DC22 launch pictures (showing motorhead).

Hi DIB

The DC22 sounds an impressive machine!  I take it the filter that is located behind one of the wheels is the pre motor filter?  And that the DDM models don't

have a post motor filter?   I think after a few years people would forget to wash the filter let alone after 7 years!  I've just got someone to wash their Dyson filter on there

DC04 for the first time!  The machine is about 5 years old!  Not surprising it's on it 2nd motor!  I'm surprised in someways Dyson has used a filter indicator as he has said

in the past that hes not keen on them!

The so called 'Motorhead' on this DC22 Japan model is in fact powered by airflow and not a motor?  Looks like it is, instead of one air intake it has 2 either side!

Wonder if this will make an appearance in the UK!  Never seen a replacement for the UK version of the DC07 Upright which was (still is!) in the UK Dyson's most

powerful upright to date!

DC18

Hello folks, I finally got around to migrating to the new site: just in time for the DC22, it seems.

DC18 (formerly known as "JD"?)  - I thought the DC14 range was the evolution/replacement for DC07.

DC07 had several 'deficiencies' (dust clogging, too tall for carrying for shorter people, whining noise from cyclones, strong suction). The DC14 addressed these flaws.

(What's with the daft formatting of this site??? The text runs off the edge of the screen, and the POST and REPLY buttons are miles away!)

Hello Trilobite

Yes the DC14 was a replacement in the UK for the DC07!   The DC14 did address some issues customers didn't like on the DC07!  I've had no issues on my DC07, but

one flaw or downside on the DC14 (personally) is the suction is no way near the DC07.  Now some say the DC07 was too powerful, but then you have some saying Dyson

vacuums are not  powerful enough hence the DC12 and DC22 with the DDM!  The main issue on the DC07 with the powerful suction was using the wand if they had the

suction release button on the hose cuff like the DC04 had then using the wand and hose would have been better.  Take the DC18 weight/size to power ratio is very good on this model. 

So what do you think to the DC22?  Not sure if this one will make the UK at some stage!  The Level 3 or Core Separation Cyclone technology is yet to make an appearance in the UK! 

I'm hoping a completely new upright to replace the DC14 with this technology and the DDM in the UK will appear at some stage! 

They have used the cleaning head and base on 3 models now in the UK DC04, DC07 and DC14 think it is time for a completely new design! 

Not that there is anything wrong with that it has worked well on all 3!  Lower slimmer cleaning head would be good!

DC18

(It's just this posting that the typing is off the page due to the pictures in the first posting!)

I find it extremely odd that the digital motor has not been launched in a UK vacuum. I also find it strange that Dyson has kept the latest cyclonic separation

techniques from us. What was the point of the DC19, DC20, and DC21 (apart from power nozzle)?

To tell you the truth, I'm starting to go off the Dyson designs, and beginning to wish some other manufacturer would take the initiative and launch a decent cleaner.

I'm fed up with Dyson's average suction power, when Dyson could quite easily make a more powerful machine (WITH A VARIABLE POWER CONTROL!).

I'm fed up with the ridiculous crevice tools fitted to current Dysons (stupid bend, too short and bloody daft 'airflow hole'!)

And I'm getting pissed off by the cleaning wand having to be disconnected when I want to use the hose end (which is 9 times out of 10!). (Mum's Panasonic upright has a very

simple hose to use, and a wonderfully long, useful crevice tool).

And, dare I say it, but a paper bag is SOOOOOO much easier to dispose of, than fiddling with bins (and clogged shrouds!).

I have been considering Sebo upright cleaners, amongst others.

Seriously, Dyson may lose another customer unless it bucks up its ideas - and quick.

How many Dyson copies currently exist in the UK?  I knew there was the Vax Zero at one time but is it still in production? 

There are so many of them here it's not even funny, and they keep coming.  As with anything, some are good, and others could be better.  The Kenmore Iridium/Progressive canister made by LG is probably the best one I've seen to date.  I had heard it was a good Dyson copy, even better than the Dyson according to some, but didn't think anything of it until I used one and examined it up close.  What a cleaner that is, and POWERFUL.  There was also something different about the cyclone assembly when I took it off that was a clear advantage.  Can't remember if it was sequential separation or not.  LG recently released an upright Dyson clone for Sears called the Kenmore PremaLite that I haven't had a chance to see yet...did talk to someone who played with one and he mentioned a few problem areas.  I noticed on the PremaLite that the bin attached to the rear of the machine, versus the front as with the rest which I thought was strange. 

The best upright Dyson copy I've used so far has to be the Bissell HealthyHome made by Daewoo.  Definitely isn't your run-of-the-mill cheap plastic "Pissell"...really a dramatic departure from that.  This one is actually pretty well made and fairly heavy.  Great engineering too I thought, and lots of power.  At the meeting there was a bunch of dirt and debris under the repair table, including small screws, nuts, bolts, etc. left over from stuff we were taking apart, and of course I put the HealthyHome to the test...picked all of it right up, screws and all!  Just for fun I also connected the hose to the Hoover Z400 (filtered bagless that had seen its fair share of use that night and was fairly clogged by then) while both were running.  The dirt stopped moving in the Z.  There's also the Bissell Total Floors Velocity which is supposed to be a copy of Dyson's dual cyclone setup...not sure how well that works as I haven't had a chance to play with one yet.

Hoover's Dyson copies include the Fusion, also badged as the Maytag Legacy (the Fusion/Legacy name is gone and the machine is now sold as the Mach 3)...there's also the Mach 5 and WindTunnel Cyclonic.  All three use the same bin setup where the air is drawn up vertically through shroud, where lightweight debris can clog the holes.  Leaves a lot to be desired and could definitely benefit from a redesign, but I've used them and they seem to work well enough.  Euro-Pro had the Shark Infinity, with 24 test-tube-sized cylindrical cyclones...not cone-shaped like the others.  I gave that machine a workout cleaning dirty machines pulled from the basement and the power didn't drop off, but you could see that the cyclones got dirty fast from fine dust.  Dirt Devil had that Spinnergy machine out for a while, worked OK but I thought it was VERY cheaply made.  I see it's been pulled now from the website.  I also see that they have a new machine on the site, the "i" which to me closely resembles the Vax Zero.  Interesting.   Wal-Mart also has a GE-labeled dual cyclonic bagless lightweight, with a large fine dust chamber, for $59.  I had to buy one this summer to try out, and it's not a bad little cleaner.  I did notice the pre-motor filter gets a little dusty after use, but I guess that can be attributed to the fact that it's only a dual cyclone.

Eureka is the only manufacturer I know that hasn't jumped on the Dyson multi-cyclone clone bandwagon, yet.  They had a dual-cyclone machine out for a while (4880 I think?) in the early-2000s which is gone now...all they have now (of course) are the horrid filtered bagless machines.

That's all I can think of now.  Any other Dyson clones you guys know of?

Hi Motorhead,

I don't think it fair to call them "copies".  That would mean that all bagged vacuums developed overtime are copies or that all machines that use water as the main filtration mediums are copies of each other.  That is not case. 
An idea is one thing and the way it's applied is another. 

The Electrolux XXX employed a low-mounted suction port that promoted air movement over the bottom of the bag which kept at least a portion of the bag wall "clean",  and the user working, until the vacuum was really full. 
The machine was also designed so that there was plenty of room all around the bag to allow as much filtering area as possible.  A lot of tank type vacs made during that era missed the point in that area.   Electrolux did not invent the disposable
bag which was in use well before the Electrolux Model LX which we first associate it with but the company did not "copy."  It took the idea and embellished it.  Thus came a double-walled, self-sealing dust bag that, even though on the small side,
gave you a decent bang for your buck in the average home.

Cyclonics -- the method used to produce air movement that inhibits loss of maximum suction -- is a term that vacuum makers have been playing around with for years and will continue to play with.  Filter Queen uses "cyclonics", the squat little piggy vacuums like Air Storm, Patriot,
Miracle Mate, etc., all use cyclonics to prolong suction.  The Kenmore Iridium is indeed a quite capable machine and though it shares the idea that Dyson also employs I don't see it as a copy.  As an instance, I like the Iridium more than the Dyson canister in that it
provides a better power nozzle and the option to raise or lower motor speed.  That too is what it's about.  Swirling air in x-number of directions doesn't mean much if you don't have well designed attachments and a modicum of convenience. 
The short coming of the Kenmore and the Dyson canister too -- if there copies -- must be the problem of filtering breakdown when air movement is impeded in the dust collectors due to larger dedris. My Iridium does a great job but debris can
become lodged above the flange on the shroud.  When that happens air filtration, not suction, takes a nose dive   Debris build up, and not a lot, compromises the ideal of "cyclonics" and the pre-filter becomes the essential filtering medium. 
Everything looks swell when you're just picking up a bit fluff and watching it swirl around in the dust bin.  Thus far, I have seen no demos of these machines that get down to the nitty gritty of real household use.  The Iridium I have gets the job
done nicely but I do have to have to remember to keep the little blue pre'filter washed.

As for the LG-sourced Permalite, it is another example of sound logic and convenience. Just about anyone can walk up to it and use it right of the bat as opposed to the confusion I've seen Dyson uprights cause for many first timers.  And believe me the
dust bin is in just the right place.  I plan on bringing one home in the not too diistant future for a thorough look.

Best,

Venson

Hello Trilobite

I'm surprised too that the DDM has not made an appearance in the UK, but looking at the latest figures from Dyson 80% of his market c(exports) comes from abroad now! Japan

I believe is one of his most successful markets, I think the the UK market has slowed down in recent years!  Saying that it would be nice to see the DDM and the new core separation

in the UK at some point, which I'm sure we will!  I've wondered what the point of the DC19 & 20 was, I can see the point of the DC21 with the motorhead!  I think they change the cyclone

setup from 12 to 8 cyclones to give the DC22 root/core seperation a better impact.  May be to cut down on parts etc so all model canisters and uprights at present use root 8 cyclone

technology.  I believe there is no difference in suction power but saying that th DC19, 20, 21 have lower airwatts then their older models DC08/DC08TW.

The bleed holes on the tools were useful on the powerful DC07 (UK) but have to say like you don't really serve a use anymore on models like the DC14,15,18.  I like the bend in the

crevice tools, as it angles the wand away from the wall, but yes they are not long enough and are no use with the bend in them when going down a narrow opening to clean.

The only thing I think Dyson uprights let themselves down with is the brushbar!  They do a good job but I have seem better lately as you mentioned on a Sebo (Felix & X4).  For me

they just need to change that and make the cleaning head flatter/slimmer to fit easily under furniture etc... Saves getting the tools and attachments out all the time!

DC18

Hello Motorhead

There are 2 vacuums in the UK that have copied or done there own version of Dyson's Cyclone technology and they are Vax and LG.  Both have done there own version of the

Root Cyclone Technology.  I believe the LG is very good version!   No other vacuums have gone that way yet, they are all cheap bagless ones using filters to filter the dirt out. Once

market leaders Electrolux and Hoover (UK) in the UK don't seem to make quality products anymore, both have not come out with anything very exciting in years.  Dyson is the

main player from what I can see in the UK!

DC18

Venson wrote:
Hi Venson,

I understand where you're coming from, however, taking an idea and embellishing it *is* in fact copying something.  When I said that Dyson copies exist, I certainly didn't mean it in a negative connotation...it's just what they are.  There will always be the front-runners (whether it be Air-Way, Rexair, or Dyson) that take the initiative to come up with a new, theoretically improved design.  If it proves to be successful and a fierce competitor, the others will most likely copy that same basic design, but adjust it to their own specifications, making changes where necessary...in other words take the idea and embellish it.  The way I see it, copying is definitely not a bad thing at all...it leads to many positive changes and advances and has brought us to where we are now (not just vacuums, many other things as well).   I honestly believe that had Air-Way not invented the disposable bag, Electrolux would have continued to use the cloth shakeout bag in the 1950's.   That's not to say that someone else wouldn't have invented the paper bag...it just would have come about at a later date.  Since they have been around so long (and are now so different from one another), it doesn't really make any sense for us to call all bagged machines "Air-Way copies," but all of the disposable bags are based on the same original design.  And the other water filtration vacuums on the market today besides Rainbow, however loose of a copy they are (separator, non-separator; cheap, expensive, etc.), are still copies of the same basic design invented by Rexair.  Again, I don't mean that in a negative way at all. 

As for cyclonic technology, I know it's been around, but not in the sense that Dyson came up with.  Even though Electrolux, Interstate, etc., touted cyclonic technology, they still needed a filtering medium (cloth bag).  That would eventually clog no matter how well-engineered the machine was.  I would compare those to the current filtered bagless upright and canister machines on the market today...yes, the dirt spins around in the container, but the filter still clogs.  If you were to remove the filter, the cyclonic action itself could not contain the dirt, instead it would naturally go toward the motor.  With the Dyson, you could remove all of the filters and it would not blow dust as the cyclonic action itself contains the dirt.  How many machines could you remove the filter from without loading the motor with dirt and consequently blowing visible dust out the exhaust?  Except for the Dyson (and other machines that have copied the design exactly like the Iridium), you really can't do that.  Just because the cyclonic action is there, doesn't necessarily mean it works.  That really all depends on how fine-tuned the design really is.  I agree with what you said about the Dyson attachments, those could definitely use some improvement.  Aside from the silly air-bleed hole, the DC21's crevice tool is OK, and I like the floor tool, however, the dusting brush and upholstery tool are horrible.  But mediocre attachments has been my main complaint on new machines for a few years; recently it's always been more of a scrub brush than a dusting brush, a short crevice tool, and a ridiculously tiny upholstery tool.  Regarding the Kenmore (my feeling is that the DC21 power nozzle is one of the best there is, even though the Kenmore's is good), the main characteristic of cyclonic machines is that air movement is not impeded.  Even if debris becomes trapped in the shroud area, air movement and filtration shouldn't be affected, especially not with this one since there are the high-efficiency cyclones as well.  In a cyclonic machine, the pre-motor filter never becomes the only filtering medium under normal use conditions.  I've never experienced anything like that with my DC21 during regular use.  However, if someone  "experiments" with one by sucking up a bunch of sheetrock dust, ash, etc., nonstop (like putting the hose into a bucket of ash or Capture fast, without going slowly and letting the machine take in extra air), there's bound to be some (if not a good amount of) dust on the pre-motor filter. Someone who had just bought their first Dyson (a DC18 Slim I believe) wanted to see what it could really do and did just that...sucked up a bunch of sheetrock dust up at once.  The pre-motor filter had a considerable amount of the stuff on there, of course.  Yes, the separation may be good, but it's not perfect.  It's only a Root Cyclone, not a level 3!  However, at no point in time did the suction ever drop off, and this is what this person was trying to accomplish to prove if the Dyson's claims were really true (after all this was the first one he bought...shortly afterward he bought his second new Dyson, a DC21). 

My feeling is that had James Dyson not invented cyclonic separation, Hoover most likely would not have come up with it on their own today...they would continue to use bags as they had been doing.  The problem was that Dyson was taking sales away from the high-end Hoovers...no one was buying the $400 WindTunnel (and later, the WindTunnel 2) anymore.  Hoover needed something to stay competitive (and, in hindsight, stay alive)...so they looked in the direction of their competition and the Fusion design was born.  To me, that machine was a dramatic departure from the others...for a while I did not care for the new Hoovers as even the expensive models still had a cheap "plasticky" feel to them.  The Fusion didn't.  The plastic parts were a different grade, and the telescoping part of the handle was metal.  Definitely an improvement, and ironically that was not the most expensive machine they had (or currently have, as the Mach 3), either.  Of course due to poor management (heading down an already rocky path and lacking innovation as early as the 1990s), Hoover would soon be acquired by TTI, although considering some of the decent TTI-made Hoovers that are out there, I don't think it was necessarily a bad thing.  The HealthyHome did the same thing for the Bissell name (in part due to its $299 price tag), in my opinion, a name commonly associated with cheap cleaners that don't clean and break often. 

What I'm trying to say is that maybe we're on to something here, that because of the copying and trying to make a better machine, the overall quality of new retail-store vacuums is improving.  I honestly believe that they have improved in quality just in the past year.  I bought 3 machines brand new this year, for the first time in over 10 years...and those who know me know that I don't just buy any new machine.  Two of those machines I bought were Wal-Mart machines under $60 (the other was the Dyson DC21 canister), something that I previously would never touch.  And those two Wal-Mart machines have visible metal parts as well, not just the fasteners!  I for one would love nothing better than to finally get out of the "cheap crappy vacuum" stage...it seems that the mid-1990s through the mid-2000s were the worst period for that.  At any rate, things are looking up, and we can only improve from here.

-MH

P.S.  I recently found out that Wal-Mart is no longer selling the GE-labeled dual-cyclonic bagless anymore...any time someone brings one to the register and the cashier rings it up, it says "Do Not Sell."  I wonder why this is?

DC18 wrote: Hi DC18,

Again, I'm surprised that more manufacturers over there have not introduced their own version of the Dyson!  But I guess that would make sense since it seems that Dyson occupies a very large section of the market there/   What really caught my interest, though, is that both you and Trilobite mentioned that Dyson's digital motor is not on any machines over there yet.  I wonder why that is the case, considering the market for Dysons there is so large?  Maybe they don't feel it necessary to introduce new technology when they have already dominated the market?  Interesting...

-MH

Hello Motorhead

Yes it is surprising more haven't followed, but having said that Hoover (UK) and Electrolux have in the passed tried to do there own version of the Dual Cyclone back in the late 90's. 

Prolem is Dyson would alway take them to court for infrigement on his patents (which has expired on the Dual technology a while ago) so probably put them off. 

Now Dyson has moved on to Root technology dual is ok but old technology.  LG and Vax are the only ones really that are doing their version (copies) of the Root Technology. 

 All the other brands seem to be happy to knock out cheap bag and bagless machines for under a £100 or just over leaving mainly Dyson to dominate the higher upper

value of the UK Vacuum market.  I'm surprised the DDM has not made it into the UK market yet, not sure why this is? 

Yes Dyson does dominate the UK market I can't see that being a reason why the DDM has yet to be launched here.  Nothing too major since the DC15 Ball has been launched in the Upright and Canister (cylinder) markets in the UK. 

The DC22 Motorhead in the UK is a new up to date version to the DC05 Motorhead, and the DC18 is a up to date version of the DC03 with the DC15 ball technology made

slimmer and simpler.  Not that there is anything wrong with these new models, they were needed in the model line up.  I'm hoping the DDM will make an appearance in the

UK market in 2008!  Not sure what shape or form when it does appear here in the UK wil it take!  I do feel we are in need of a totally new upright to replace the DC14/07 in the UK although I believe the DC14 is

quite a popular upright model in the UK Dyson range!  The base of this machine (apart from a few changes/improvements with each model) has not changed since the DC04

model and I think it's time for a radical change which could include the DDM!

DC18

Hello,

 < This and other DC22 pics from a Japanese blog (while on blog, click pics to enlarge).  Here.        DIB

Hello DIB

Interesting pictures of the DC22.  Shows close up of the new Root and Core technology! Like the new motorhead that is on the DC22 looks slimmer in height! 

DC18

Hi DIB,

Great new pictures of the DC22, thanks for linking.  Of course you know it makes me even more anxious to see this machine in person and buy one when it's introduced here.  The new low-profile Motorhead does look good; appears to be slightly narrower but still the same basic design as the DC21's Motorhead, which is really one of the best power nozzles I've used in a long time.  To me a gear-driven brushroll is the only way to go now.  As for the low profile, I don't have a problem getting under the bed and other furniture with my 21, but this probably makes it even more of a breeze.

I'm still itching to hear how the DDM sounds on startup and full speed. 

Hello DC18 and Motorhead,

 

Glad you enjoyed my posting/s.  This DC22 looks to be James’ newest weapon.  It should keep his opponents at bay and give

consumers another choice, something needed and new.  Seven years (approx) of hassle free (no pre-motor filter cleaning) is what

the Core technology is and what James is betting on, I’m guessing with a bigger pre-motor filter too.  Today the Dyson copycats even

use James 6 month clean pre filter standard and messaging.  And so there they are, cleaning the filter every 6 months.  I was

wondering just how James was going to sell the Level 3 in the future…  cleaning ever 7 years vs. every 6 months (his old strategy and

his competitors current strategies).  I would expect to see this new strategy (cleaning every 7 years vs. 6 months) in his new uprights too.

The canisters verses uprights look to be more difficult at keeping dust away from the pre filter.  I saw this Core patent a year ago or so,

I took another look recently at the patent, it shows 2 inlets at the “Core” high efficient cone.  But the Dyson Japan site shows only one inlet.

I saw no patents from any of his competitors that use anything interesting or close to James’ “Core” technology.  Certainly there are unseen patent

pending vacs that are not publicly posted.  I am baffled after looking at Dyson Japan and comparing the DDM vs. carbon motored DC22.

This site does not look at all finished, an example is a reference to the DC22 having the Root6 technology as well as phone home capabilities.

I looked hard, and per Dyson Japan the only difference is the warrantees and pricing.  But if you look close to the DDM has an outer ring at

the power button that lights green - clean filter and red for clogged pre filter.  The carbon brush motor DC22 does not have this feature.

 

Re:  Dyson copies.

The Bissell “Healthy Home”, the Dirt Devil “Spinnergy:, the Vax “Zero” are ALL near exact copies.  Claim #7 in one of Dyson’s multi-cyclone

patents narrowly defines the patent and these wonderful companies have exploited and built vacuums around this.  Claim #7 says

"at least 1/2" of the high efficient tapered cone sits inside of bin. - Another Dyson patent claims "cyclone projects into collector" see Claim#10.

Bissell, Dirt Devil and Vax exploited this narrow definition and have just simply put the cyclones on top on the bin! - Ta-da!

Below are Dyson and LG patents.

Dyson patent filing date:  14.09.2001 patent here	LG patent filing date: 17.08.2005  patent here

 

My money is on Dyson.

DIB

Hello DIB

Thanks for posting the patent links to both.  My money is on Dyson too.  I do prefer the new motorhead on the DC22 to the DC21 like Motorhead says it looks slimmer.  Looks like it

has one long brush bar on the picture unlike the DC21 motorhead where the 2 brush bars attach to the geared mountings either side.  I will be interesting to see this Core Seperation

in the new uprights from Dyson.  Although the DC17 with its level 3 sort of answers that question as to how they may go about it!?  I would like them to use something simular to the

DC22 Motorhead on a new upright giving a slimmer cleaner head/body.

Onr thing looking at different pictures and the Dyson Japan Website of the DC22 it doesn't look much bigger than the DC12!  After all they prefer smaller vacuums because of the

limited space they have over there! 

DC18

Hi,

Nobody asked me but . . .

Online shoppers, Sears has a nice price drop AND a discount for those who just must have a Dyson DC21.  However, 9:00  p.m. today is the end of the line.

The price on the DC21 is $474.99 with an additional 10% off "Cyber Monday" discount (-$47.50) AND shipping is free as the order is over $49.00. 
Final cost, not including local sales tax, is about $427.00.  Check it out if your of a mind.

This is not a recommendation of Dyson. It's just that God knows I love a good sale.

Happy shopping and no I don't work for Sears,

Venson

My neighbor was kind enough to translate (best as possible) the wording on this DC22 packaging (below).        DIB

 

1)      30 times better (filtering) than any cyclone vacuum.

2)      Motorhead does not slow down vs.a turbine nozzle.

3)      Updated Root with Core separator.

4)      “About” 7 years, you do not have to touch filter for 7 years.

5)      2 yr. warrantee.

 < This and other DC22 pics from a Japanese blog (while on blog, click pics to enlarge).  Here. 

I had a look at the DC22, its similar size to Dysons previous DC05.  I don't like the DC22 as it has PLASTIC for its telescopic wand not the usual alluminium  (though I never liked the aluminium) I wish Dyson would go back to the steel they used for the first model, seemed better quality.

The plastic finish  the telescope 'handle' looks like poor with some 'flash'