Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hi guys,

Called Briggs with the spec # on the Simplicity I am looking at . The guy was very nice!! Called me back and spent a lot of time  but couldn't find the exact # I gave him. He said he was 90% sure the spec# I gave him  is an aluminum bore engine. What he was able to give me was the Phone # for Simplicity which I couldn't get on Friday. For you Simplicity fans the #is (262)284-8669.Hit 2 on your phone after you get through to get to the tech dept. Real interesting conversation with that gentleman.

1)All the engines in the large frame line are the same except for the 13hp unit."If you buy the the 9560E,1060DLXE,1170Eor 1280E you get the same engine."

When I asked him why he said it's more cost effective to power everything with the 12hp engine than to buy different engines for each model. He was very specific about saying the engine is the 12. The stickers are different.

2)" All the engines are aluminum bore models because they are the same engine" Simplicity chose to go with aluminum bore because they run cooler and in an environment absent of dust and dirt the cast iron isn't necessary.Today"s Aluminum alloys wear very well under winter conditions according to their tests."

3)"I should consider using the Briggs synthetic oil because it doubles  the life of the warranty. There is a chemical dye in the oil that colors the internal parts of the engine. If you have a failure they check for the color and you get a replacement." Sounds like a good deal to me.

4)He suggested using Simplicity part #1704636 to lubricate the gearbox. Infomed me that it is really a Snapper lubricant and that when Simplicity bought Snapper they found it worked very well. Said it doesen't thicken in the cold as much as other gear oils.

I pressed him a little on the aluminum bore issue reminding him that Simplicity used cast iron bore Tecumsehs before Briggs bought the company. He said that the purchase by Briggs had nothing to do with it.Simplicity started using Briggs three years ago when the Snow Intek first came out. He reminded me this was before Simplicity was bought by Briggs.When I asked him why the change he said there were too many issues with the Tecumseh carburetors .

 I went to the Briggs web site and spent some time looking at their replacement engine spec. book. Sure enough there are 9,10 and 11 hp. engines of the same displacement. To further confuse/enlighten me they listed engines of the same horse power that have different displacements.And to further confuse the issue Briggs does not list a 12 hp engine. 

I have a headache,

Marc

mml4 wrote:

In the Tecumseh type thing I was using that as a reference to show how easy it was to change hp with very little effort or as they would put a switch of a number or two.  As there is no different numbers in the Snapper/Simplicity line, Tecumseh was the next best thing.

I also know that there is no comparison in L heads and OHV.  I do work around these engines everyday and would prefer to see the OHV anyday.  It's hard for me to sit here and explain it - I can show it to you if I have several books spread across to point to the different numbers or even the micro fiche (yeah those are still around) all the resources we have at work - and still no answers.  Nobody's numbers are the same.

With that being said - I'm going to nurse my headache - tomorrow's going to be a long day.

Sherri

Just a Thought.   You all are doing  well in the HP research pls keep going and Thanks much,  But I was thinking of maybe another avenue to gain some Info.  Does anybody know of anyone who races go-carts, clubs, organizations.  I am just figuring that they may put a lot of those youngins by the rules out there in horsepower brackets.  Obviously you couldn,t put one of them out there in something that could be dangerous.  and it may be go-carts, but it would be competitive and you couldn' be out there in an 8hp an under bracket, and all of a sudden one of the newer maybe misbadged engines get on the track with 50 percent actual more HP and starts blowing every one off the road.  This could be much more noticable than on say a snowblower, cause those cart motors are running through the whole operating range of RPM.  So maybe they have already went thru some of this and they would maybe of had to at least partially solve some of it to keep it regulated better in their sport 

Just a thought

Ben07

Ben, good thinking.

I don't know anyone today that is doing it. I wonder if they use the following engines though? If so, it wouldn't help out cause much.

Briggs Racing engines.

Hi there Ben,

MissSnowshoveler wrote:
I don't think you can "pick up" HP in a gear box unless your referring to losses due to friction. A gear box doesn't change the amount of energy per time ( HP, KWH, joules per second, whatever) it changes the speed and the torque. One goes up the other goes down.

What are the main things that affect HP?

1. displacement
2. compression
3. fuel

Anything else?

BTW here's the expalnation of the B&S numbering scheme. http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?DocID=65324

Add "Air" to the equation.

 Marshall,

Make that "Density" of air.

Colder air is more dense than warm.

Atmospheric pressure and altitude affect HP.

At 18,000 feet above sea  level, pressure is 1/2 of what it is at sea level.

Therefor an engine ,8HP at sea level only produces 4 HP at 18,000 feet of altitude.

That is why recip engines need superchargers for high altitude flying.

                     Fred  

Carburetion, compression, ignition, and muffler.  

jubol wrote: Correct Fred but, air still produces HP, just that denser air helps produce more HP.

Is denser a word?

nibbler wrote:

Hi Nibbler .. There are a lot of things that can affect HP as you know.  But one aspect I want to add to the pot of stew just to caution, as trying to figure it out if there is small differences like the thickness of a head gasket  (assuming that it is not a lot  ) It may not change the peak aspect of the HP drastic enough on a 1 cyl small engine.  I will give you a litleblurb on that in a second, cause that is my secondary point.  But it can very well alter the  torque and or HP curve somewhere in the graph .  Example just to make it relative.  The gasket may take a 9 to a say 9.1 at 4000 rpm   however the application to the whole engine may make it peak 300 rpm sooner etc.  So maybe  amost same HP at peak but developed at diff speeds. So the question  is can they change an 8 HP to a 9HP with the head gasket thickness.  The way they seem to be allowed to use the test ratings, as in sometimes within operating range of the machine and sometimes over and above the operating range of the machine however within the limits of the operating range of the engine,   then they definately can change horsepower  on paper.

gpCan the head gasket give it 13% more hp on a 1 cyl engine.  There would have to be a big differ in thickness after the installation crush.  A lot of people are use to like auto's going (pre- Emission)  from a 9 to 1  up to a 12 to 1 ratio and gaining an overall 10 percent hp. like asy 30 hp gain in a v8.  But when you shave the heads on a v* you are shaving 8 cylinders  .not just one   so the figure sounds a bit higher.  So you can still investigate it,  but it could turn out that there are so many overlapping factors, you might drive yourself crazy.

Didn't mean to get complicated just trying to help

 

Ben07