Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hi guys,

Called Briggs with the spec # on the Simplicity I am looking at . The guy was very nice!! Called me back and spent a lot of time  but couldn't find the exact # I gave him. He said he was 90% sure the spec# I gave him  is an aluminum bore engine. What he was able to give me was the Phone # for Simplicity which I couldn't get on Friday. For you Simplicity fans the #is (262)284-8669.Hit 2 on your phone after you get through to get to the tech dept. Real interesting conversation with that gentleman.

1)All the engines in the large frame line are the same except for the 13hp unit."If you buy the the 9560E,1060DLXE,1170Eor 1280E you get the same engine."

When I asked him why he said it's more cost effective to power everything with the 12hp engine than to buy different engines for each model. He was very specific about saying the engine is the 12. The stickers are different.

2)" All the engines are aluminum bore models because they are the same engine" Simplicity chose to go with aluminum bore because they run cooler and in an environment absent of dust and dirt the cast iron isn't necessary.Today"s Aluminum alloys wear very well under winter conditions according to their tests."

3)"I should consider using the Briggs synthetic oil because it doubles  the life of the warranty. There is a chemical dye in the oil that colors the internal parts of the engine. If you have a failure they check for the color and you get a replacement." Sounds like a good deal to me.

4)He suggested using Simplicity part #1704636 to lubricate the gearbox. Infomed me that it is really a Snapper lubricant and that when Simplicity bought Snapper they found it worked very well. Said it doesen't thicken in the cold as much as other gear oils.

I pressed him a little on the aluminum bore issue reminding him that Simplicity used cast iron bore Tecumsehs before Briggs bought the company. He said that the purchase by Briggs had nothing to do with it.Simplicity started using Briggs three years ago when the Snow Intek first came out. He reminded me this was before Simplicity was bought by Briggs.When I asked him why the change he said there were too many issues with the Tecumseh carburetors .

 I went to the Briggs web site and spent some time looking at their replacement engine spec. book. Sure enough there are 9,10 and 11 hp. engines of the same displacement. To further confuse/enlighten me they listed engines of the same horse power that have different displacements.And to further confuse the issue Briggs does not list a 12 hp engine. 

I have a headache,

Marc

Marc,

Great info!

Personally I think too much is made about OPE engines in general, whether it's snow, lawn, pressure washers, etc. I've learned to be most concerned with the build quality of the machines themselves, the way the decks are designed on mowers, etc. Maybe it would relate to how the augers, blades, impellers, etc. are made on snowblowers, I don't know?

I don't think there is a terrible engine made today between the major brands. Over all of the years I have been associated with this forum the one thing that stands out to me about engine performance and reliability is, maintenance and gas. I can count on one hand how many times I have read where someone lost an engine and not use all my fingers doing so. On the other hand, I have to use all of my fingers plus all of my toes to count the times I have heard people complaining about any certain engines and it turns out to be poor maintenance or bad fuel from neglect.

Point being, as long as the user has purchased an engine of appropriate size for the jobs it's used for and maintains the engine as well as the fuel, I'm willing to bet you would be hard pressed to actually document which brand is best, using breakdown alone as the criteria. I think it would take going many years down the road to get much of a difference in results. That said, there are other criteria that someone may find that separates the engines when choosing one.

I will say that with the heat of summer and dirty conditions of lawn mowing, I would want a cast iron liner though. I can honestly say that it would not be a deciding factor to me in a snowblower decision.

mml4 wrote:

Marc   Fantastic research there.  Sorry about the headache.  But you got hard copy and verbal proof that the machines are being badged falsly.  I am sure as you know that has been coming up in many threads, by a few people.  I t has been met with. Can't be happening as there is a specific regulated test., Mechanically impossable,  don't really care as long as it runs and does the job,  just buy more and don't worry about it. 

Fact is they are doing it and it is a highly fraudulent process.  It should not be allowed to be happening.  It is also the give them an inch and what is to stop them from going further. 

To answer some of the above, it can be done despite the test,  use a general disclaimer,  It definately is mechanically possable,

don't really care as long as it does the job,  I really don't mind that one because that is personal preference.  If you want to turn a blind eye and rely on reputation and other peoples experiences, that is fine as there are a lot of things keeping everyone busy and impossable to look at everything under a microscope,   but the problem is the other reputations, and experiences are going to find and have a problem with the situation sooner or later.  The just buy more and don't worry about it, is the real riot here, don't get me wrong it is a decent strategy if things are on the up and up.( but the fact is when you are noticing things to be falsly advertized  you can now try to buy more and not get it,  same as throwing your money in the garbach can.  What really puts the icing on the cake is in this case the truth is when you  buy less is when you  actually get more.  

So the next rebuttal will be ok it's happening, but here is an example of how it can benefits me.  It's just too bad the guy buying more is helping to pay for mine.

This is a definate riot...  now I got a headache as i'm, lmaorof

Ben07 

 

 

Ben07 wrote:

Hi Ben,

So, let me get this strait. You guys saying that you believe the 13HP has no more power than the 8HP?

"When I asked him why he said it's more cost effective to power everything with the 12hp engine than to buy different engines for each model. He was very specific about saying the engine is the 12. The stickers are different."

Marshall,

I thought the Simplicity Representative over the phone that Marc spoke with made the above statement to him.  Actually the 13 HP was not included in the statement, my mistake.  But it did refer to the 9,10,11, and 12 HP models actually being the same engine just re-labeled

 Richie,

If Briggs/ Simplicity is using the same engine size, just relabeled, do you think Tecumseh is doing the same?

Tec's 8 to 11Hp all have same displacement, just as you mentioned on the Briggs.

I think, maybe  they are just changing cams and carbs to make the difference in engine HP.

                                                                        Fred  

Marshall wrote:

Actually Marshall I believe that the rep said in essence the 9 was the same as the 12 and all inbetween were 12's also.

Hi guys!

One of the things I have learned from my research into the engines is how to decode the spec #. I assume if the spec # is the same then the engine is the same. I went to the simplicity dealer this am and looked at the two large frame units he had on the floor. One was the 9.5hp 960E and the other was the 10hp 1060E. Both engines had the EXACT same spec #20G414011E1. I did not have the opportunity to see the 11hp or the 12hp as they were not in stock but for these two units the info from the Simplicity tech guy checks out.Same engine!!!

Marc

Hi there Marc,

That was great you were actually able to check the spec numbers.  That number is everything and says it all.  It's also pretty amazing and settles any doubt.   

P.S. "I did not have the opportunity to see the 11hp or the 12hp as they were not in stock"

Just goes to show you why they were out of stock.  The consumer is lead to believe they have to have a very high horse power snowblower and go for the one marked 11 or 12 HP.  I know Simplicity snowblowers are not cheap to buy.  I'd hate to see how much extra those people paid when they could have gotten basically the same thing for hundreds less.  The OPE industry has no shame