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Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Original Message   Feb 16, 2005 12:40 pm

At least Briggs has all this in writing on their website it you know enough to look for it.  Obviously Tecumseh and any other engine manufacturer follows this same rating procedure.  Pretty lousy numbers when you think about gross HP as opposed to BHP that we are really concerned with.  Still, they don't mention if this rating system takes into account the very lean EPA carburetors, so I'd have to say no, which means its even worse.  If you look at the last paragraph that I highlighted in RED, this supposedly 8 hp engine I have that is run in ACTUAL conditions and NOT in optimum laboratory conditions, has a pitiful rating, as do all of our engines.

Horsepower Ratings

The power ratings shown with the individual engine series on the preceding pages are established in accordance with SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) code J1940 (Small Engine Power & Torque Rating Procedure) (Proposed Revision 2001-09). Power curve and engine performance data are obtained in accordance with SAE J1349 (Net) or J1995 (Gross) Engine Power Test Codes.

In accordance with SAE J1349 (Net) or J1995 (Gross) Engine Power Test Codes, power curves are developed from laboratory test engines and are corrected to standard conditions which are:

Altitude: 100 meters (328 ft)
Ambient Temperature: 77 F (25 C)

If the engine will be operated under ambient conditions different from above standard conditions, the following factors should be accounted for in estimating "on site" power output:

Engine power will decrease 3.5% for each 1000 ft (300 m) above sea level and 1% for each 10 F (5.6 C) above standard temperature of 60 F (15.6 C).

The actual "on site" power output will also vary depending on other factors including the manner in which the engine is operated, the fuel that is used, and the application in which it is installed.

The "Maximum BHP" curve represents maximum performance output of optimum laboratory test engines of a particular model. A statistical mean of production engines, with 95% confidence, will develop no less than 85% of the Maximum BHP when tested after run-in to reduce friction and after clean-out of combustion chamber, with valves, carburetor and ignition systems adjusted to laboratory standards.

The "Recommended Maximum Operating BHP" is a calculated curve and represents 85% of the maximum BHP curve. For practical operation, BHP load and speed should be within the limits shown in the "Recommended Maximum Operating BHP" curve.

If the maximum speed of the engine specified for a given application is governed to a speed less than the speed at which the Maximum BHP occurs, the engine will not achieve the Maximum BHP in that application. For applications requiring operation at other than the recommended engine speeds, complete details of the proposed engine installation should be referred to the factory for evaluation.

Source:  Briggs & Stratton Technical/Warranty
http://www.commercialpower.com/display/router.asp?DOCID=76491

This message was modified Feb 16, 2005 by Richie


Richie
Replies: 10 - 19 of 23Next page of topicsPreviousNextNext page of topicsAllView as Outline
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #10   Feb 16, 2005 8:39 pm
MissSnowshoveler wrote:
Well believe me, if the Boss fired everyone for disagreeing with him, I'd be out of a job along, long time ago...


Hey Sherri,

That's good to know, thanks.  Hey, I love working on the old stuff, I'll get that Saw and Generator working in no time.

BTW...I'm actually buried under all that stuff.  The other day, while kneeling down trying to clean the place up, someone rolled a big heavy snowblower over my back and pinned me there.  I wish someone would come and help me, the tire chains are still digging into the back of my head

Richie
MountainMan


Overpowered is Usually Adequate


Location: Connecticut
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Points: 1564

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #11   Feb 16, 2005 9:14 pm
Richie wrote:
* This engine was manufactured and laboratory rated by the Tecumseh Power Company at 6.5 gross horsepower in accordance with SAE J1940. As configured to meet safety, emission, and operating requirements, the actual horsepower on this class of lawn mower will be significantly lower.


All the more reason for " OVER-POWERED IS USUALLY ADEQUATE"

Ariens 1128PRO- Honda Generator_ Husky 480-257 Jonsered 2050Turbo- Shindiawa T2500 SCAG Mower -little wonder blower-Sears track blower-Coleman Generator- Bombadier ATV-Stihl HS-45 Etc-Etc-Etc
snowshoveler


tides in dirts out surfs up

Location: bridgewater nova scotia...aka the swamp
Joined: Jan 3, 2003
Points: 1261

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #12   Feb 16, 2005 9:15 pm
Richie...

the lawnmower is a bit of a different story,your gonna love this.

the engine is capable of its 6.5 horsepower.however the blade is the limiting factor.

there is a certain rpm allowed for the length of blade installed on the mower.

basically it amounts to how many feet per minute the tips of the blade travels.

so in a sense you are CORRECT the numbers are crappy.

they take a high horse motor and slap it on a mower and then wind the throttle speed so far down that it can barley get out of its own way.

remember when we had those little 3.5 or even 2.75 horse 19 inch cut mowers.they would turn up like a racecar and would mow down anything you could push it through.

its all about the blade tip speed  and that even changed,i think it was 21000 feet per minute and now its 19000 .not positive on the actual number but you get the idea.

longer blade ,slower its allowed to go ...or it will break up and thats not pretty especially if you wear sandals.

ps i hope you get your butt out from that pile of junk...i have a bunch of work to get done .

later chris

craftsman 10/28 snowblower with tracks   husky 372xpg chainsaw   sachs dolmar bc212 bushsaw   mondo trimmer   monster tractor with trailer    cheep wheelbarro and couple shovels and a partridge in a pear tree 
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #13   Feb 16, 2005 9:41 pm
MountainMan wrote:
All the more reason for " OVER-POWERED IS USUALLY ADEQUATE"


Mountain,

I have to agree with you on that one  The problem is that over-powered or purchasing more engine than you may need is really expensive.  I suppose the way things are, it's a no win situation for the consumer.

Richie
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #14   Feb 16, 2005 9:56 pm
snowshoveler wrote:
the lawnmower is a bit of a different story,your gonna love this.
the engine is capable of its 6.5 horsepower.however the blade is the limiting factor.
there is a certain rpm allowed for the length of blade installed on the mower.

Chris,

I actually read something about that recently, so I'm back to full agreement with you    What got to me about it was the more I kept digging around on this subject, more and more instances I found that clearly show how rampant one dirty little secret after another exists in the OPE engine industry.

.     

Richie
Marshall


As Long As There Are Tests, There Will Be Prayer In Public Schools. ;- )

Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 7730

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #15   Feb 16, 2005 9:58 pm
"I suppose the way things are, it's a no win situation for the consumer."

Well, that might be taking it a tad too far. LOL 

When you get down to the nut cutting, if you bought an engine that will throw your snow how you imagined it to be thrown with the HP you thought you bought, regardless of what the sticker says on the cowling, you're winning.




But, I know what you're saying.
MountainMan


Overpowered is Usually Adequate


Location: Connecticut
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Points: 1564

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #16   Feb 16, 2005 10:41 pm
Richie wrote:


Mountain,

I have to agree with you on that one  The problem is that over-powered or purchasing more engine than you may need is really expensive.  I suppose the way things are, it's a no win situation for the consumer.



Not much different than getting the upgraded larger motor in a truck.  I couldove bought the 9 HP 24", but went to a 1128. Noty like i was doubling the price.

On my 48" mower, price diff between a single cylinder and the Kawasaki twin was negligible, a worthwhile investment. The 15 HP is there when you need it, and if I ever selll it, will hold its value.

Ariens 1128PRO- Honda Generator_ Husky 480-257 Jonsered 2050Turbo- Shindiawa T2500 SCAG Mower -little wonder blower-Sears track blower-Coleman Generator- Bombadier ATV-Stihl HS-45 Etc-Etc-Etc
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #17   Feb 17, 2005 7:47 am
MountainMan wrote:


Not much different than getting the upgraded larger motor in a truck.  I couldove bought the 9 HP 24", but went to a 1128. Noty like i was doubling the price.

Mountain,

I certainly understand your point, and it would have more resale value than say purchasing the same snowblower as an 8 HP as opposed to getting an 11 or 13 HP.  Getting the top HP rated machine would always be far easier to sell later on, no question about that

But in my case, I didn't want to go for the 11hp OHV engine that raised the purchase cost another $400.00.  The ultimate cost would have been $1,649.00 rather than $1,249.00.  The downside to purchasing a snowblower or any piece of OPE with the biggest engine is that it plays right into the manufacturers fraudulent advertising practices.  That is basically one of several points I was trying to make.

I would imagine since the average consumer is not aware of all these posts in here on this subject, I would have to say you're reasoning behind getting the top HP machine is definitely sound and makes sense.  In the end, you have a desirable machine that someone would certainly want to take off your hands.

I'm just happy there are many on this forum that at least have had a chance to read all of this and are one up on the average consumer.



Richie
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #18   Feb 17, 2005 11:00 am
MountainMan wrote:

All the more reason for " OVER-POWERED IS USUALLY ADEQUATE"



Hey Mountain,

I think this qualifies in that area  Here is a really great way to make any OPE engine come to life.  It just goes to show you that no matter what size engine you have, you can always find a company that produces high performance products for it.  Too bad a snowblower would be difficult to modify for this type of thing.  Sure looks real cool and it could make a Briggs 5 HP or larger OPE engine scream

 http://www.hscsupercharger.com/

Richie
Marshall


As Long As There Are Tests, There Will Be Prayer In Public Schools. ;- )

Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 7730

Re: Briggs & Stratton Engine HP Disclaimer
Reply #19   Feb 17, 2005 11:33 am
That would make a Go Cart a screamer!
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