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mml4


Snow is good,
Deep snow is better!


Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Points: 544

Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Original Message   Feb 5, 2005 8:17 am
These are the sounds issued forth from my beloved Tecumseh engines equipped with fixed Jets. I don't own one but my friend does on a machine I recomended and he constantly rags me about it. In an effort to get him off my back I have researched the following and these are the results:

1) The replacement carb for a medium frame Tecumseh is 632334A ( this is a part # that replaces a disontinued part but the blow up diagram of the replacement shows an adjustable main jet. Therefore I ASSUME it is adjustable.

2) The carburetor repair kit for this model is 632347 

I was able to secure a blowup diagram of this carb and the list of parts in the repair kit. It APPEARS all of the main jet parts are present in the kit.I NEED VERIFICATION If this includes the needle and the jet. 

If one were to remove the fixed jet from the current carb which I believe is the green plastic tube held in by O-rings and replace it with the adjustable jet and needle from the #632347 repair kit would it work? Could you retrofit the new bowl with the adjustable assembly or would you have to buy a new bowl?

If anybody could verify or correct my assumptions I would be most appreciative.

Marc

Just for the record -theHonda GX series engine on my power washer made the same spit, sputter,cough,blemph sounds due to it's fixed jet carb. Honda has addressed this problem by producing a line of altitude related jets. Another words if you want to richen up a Honda fixed jet carb parts are available. The carb will still be fixed jet but at a richer setting.

This message was modified Feb 5, 2005 by mml4


SnapperV210P,Toro22177,TroyBilt42010Snowthrower,Craftsman Shredder,American Turbo Pressure Washer HondaGX200,Stihl011Saw,EchoPas260Trimmer Edger,EchoPB602Blower,EchoHCR150Hedge Clipper
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Ben07


The more you know about something, the more you find there is to know.

Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Points: 178

Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #31   Feb 12, 2005 12:41 pm
Richie wrote:
Hi there Ben,
 I figured I might be able to pick at Chris's food while he is busy studying the Microfiche cards trying to answer all our HP/torque questions.  . 



Yeah Chris thanks for doing that  I appreciate it.  (it's a guy thing,  by the way are girls allowed to run SB)  na  !!!

(powder-puff Snow blowin,  don sound right)

anonymous

This message was modified Feb 12, 2005 by Ben07


Ariens 8524LE, Toro CCR2000, Jacobsen S-B S-blowers, Generac 10hp Gen-convt. to N.G., 5 L-boys(D's F's &Dura( 74,77,80,88,00), Antiq. 1960 AYP 20 in. mag w 3.5 Tech mower. Ryan/Ryobi gas Trim. AYP 205 gas blwr. Mac c-saw,Toro E-blwr, 2 Weed-E e. stg. trims. outboards, boats, util trail, 2 Jeeps 
Ben07


The more you know about something, the more you find there is to know.

Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Points: 178

Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #32   Feb 12, 2005 3:33 pm
Richie Chris  while you are on the HP carb thing,  why the He-- does my Tech on my ariens claim it is 8.5 hp.  I went into Tech. sites last year and could find nothing.  it has a model number the same as the standard snow king 8 hp.  Ariens specs say 8.5 but no marking on the engine ..  Model 8524 in this case is synonimous with 8.5hp with a 24 inch width snow box.  (i know u know that but for someone unfamiliar, figured I would make it clearer.

Ben07

P.s.  Richie, no you cannot trade me carbs.

by the way looked at a toro think it was an 82?le, might be diff than yours, (i can't look to long, I get attached)

750 on sale HD.  quite impressive machine  (that joy stick worked well, couldn,t find any of those traction unlock things though,   but i was only there for a sec.

This message was modified Feb 12, 2005 by Ben07


Ariens 8524LE, Toro CCR2000, Jacobsen S-B S-blowers, Generac 10hp Gen-convt. to N.G., 5 L-boys(D's F's &Dura( 74,77,80,88,00), Antiq. 1960 AYP 20 in. mag w 3.5 Tech mower. Ryan/Ryobi gas Trim. AYP 205 gas blwr. Mac c-saw,Toro E-blwr, 2 Weed-E e. stg. trims. outboards, boats, util trail, 2 Jeeps 
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #33   Feb 13, 2005 4:46 pm
Ben07 wrote:
Richie Chris  while you are on the HP carb thing,  why the He-- does my Tech on my ariens claim it is 8.5 hp.  I went into Tech. sites last year and could find nothing.  it has a model number the same as the standard snow king 8 hp.  Ariens specs say 8.5 but no marking on the engine ..  Model 8524 in this case is synonimous with 8.5hp with a 24 inch width snow box.  (i know u know that but for someone unfamiliar, figured I would make it clearer.

Ben07

P.s.  Richie, no you cannot trade me carbs.

by the way looked at a toro think it was an 82?le, might be diff than yours, (i can't look to long, I get attached)

750 on sale HD.  quite impressive machine  (that joy stick worked well, couldn,t find any of those traction unlock things though,   but i was only there for a sec.


Hi Ben,

Your question regarding your Tecumseh engine is basically the same I had when doing research on my engine.  All OPE engine ratings are all fudged and you can't take them at face value.  If you look at the power curve charts on these engines, you'll notice none run close to their maximum HP rated RPM.  Even my engine was 300 RPM's below it.  Depending on the RPM the factory sets the engine at, impacts on the actual HP it delivers.  There is usually a low side and a high side that would be considered operating RPM for any given engine, and the difference can easily be 300 RPM's.  If you look at the power charts, this RPM variation can easily equal 3/4 in either direction or more.  I actually have a Brigg's & Stratton 8.5 HP engine on my Chipper/Shredder.  I can tell you that this engine screams when run at operating RPM.  When the weather warms up a bit, I'm going to tach it and see how fast they have it running at.  I can tell you one thing, my ears never lie and it is running way higher than 3,300 RPM's. 

If I'm not mistaken, I've learned that Briggs & Stratton is involved in a class action lawsuit because of this engine rating practice.  In fact, if I was able to find someone that could Dyno my Tecumseh engine and was able to prove my engine isn't putting out what it should, I would go right to an attorney about it.  Contacting the engine manufacturers only seemed to raise more questions than it answered.  Believe me, there is a dirty little secret going on behind the scene not only with the engine companies, but with the OPE manufacturers that place them on their equipment.



Richie
jubol


Location: Dover, De
Joined: Oct 3, 2003
Points: 1558

Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #34   Feb 13, 2005 5:00 pm
 Richie,

      You remind me of what a good knife is!!

You go right to the heart and your "SHARP" ! !

I think the OPE makers on HP are blowing smoke also!!!

                                                                 Fred    

Husqvarna STE927(11.5HP) snowblower,  MTD Pro Series 18/42 Lawnmower, MTD 6.5 HP  Self Prop Lawn Mower,  Weedeater 1500 Blower, Web Gensis  2000 
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #35   Feb 13, 2005 5:49 pm
jubol wrote:
 Richie,

      You remind me of what a good knife is!!

You go right to the heart and your "SHARP" ! !

I think the OPE makers on HP are blowing smoke also!!!

                                                                 Fred    

Hi Fred,

I appreciate that comment, thank you.  I'm no different than anyone else on this forum.  I spend good money on OPE and when I come across these engine output power curve charts only to find that my 8 HP engine is not putting out that much HP, which in my mind I paid for an 8 HP, well, I've got a problem with that.  Add to the fact, as Ben mentioned, he tried to find specifications for his 8.5 HP Tecumseh engine, yet his research determines it's an 8 HP.  Well, I say these engine companies are really pushing their luck these days.  They had better get it into their little heads that the consumer is armed with the internet, not to mention forums such as this where we can all compare notes. 

What good is it for an engine to be rated at a certain HP if they are NEVER run that high.  Snowblowers and tractors and such are designed to run at a fixed RPM or operating RPM.  THAT is the RPM the engines should be rated, real world conditions and RPM and NOT some fictitious off the scale RPM that is determined under laboratory conditions.  I'm really getting sick of these manufacturers selling the same engine yet rate it at numerous different HP ratings and prices.  I think Sears/Craftman is the worst of all, and I call that fraud at some level.   When I see walk-behind lawn mowers rated at something like 7 HP, it really makes you wonder how out of control it has gotten.  A doubt a single blade mower actually requires more than 3 HP to do the job.  They are always trying to find better ways to pull the wool over our eyes with their marketing and hype crap. 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that we are reliving decades ago, back when the automotive manufacturers were in the HP race between each other.  You are now seeing it in the OPE industry. 

This message was modified Feb 13, 2005 by Richie


Richie
Marshall


As Long As There Are Tests, There Will Be Prayer In Public Schools. ;- )

Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 7730

Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #36   Feb 13, 2005 6:04 pm
"I'm really getting sick of these manufacturers selling the same engine yet rate it at numerous different HP ratings and prices.  I think Sears/Craftman is the worst of all"

No doubt about this statement, they have been doing that for years. I'm waiting for their 8.9HP reel mower to arrive, you know, the kind with no engine.
TheKneebiter


Joined: Oct 22, 2004
Points: 233

Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #37   Feb 13, 2005 7:04 pm
there was a class action against a well known compressor maker a year or so ago. this co. made craftsman compressors also. they were rating the compressors at peak hp not hp at there regular cycle. a friend of mine received a letter in the mail and was awarded a choice of 1 of 5 differents tools from this co. or a small cash refund. if enough people complain about the engines there will be a similar type thing i bet

Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #38   Feb 13, 2005 8:27 pm
TheKneebiter wrote:
there was a class action against a well known compressor maker a year or so ago. this co. made craftsman compressors also. they were rating the compressors at peak hp not hp at there regular cycle. a friend of mine received a letter in the mail and was awarded a choice of 1 of 5 differents tools from this co. or a small cash refund. if enough people complain about the engines there will be a similar type thing i bet

Well, I really don't require a dynamometer to tell me that none of the engines on my OPE are producing the rated HP at the factory set engine speed.  Those engine performance charts show that without question, no matter what brand engine you have.  Whether it be Briggs, Tecumseh, even Honda.  It amazes me they even have the "brass" to put it in writing for all to see.  If the manufacturers want to sell you a piece of OPE with a 9 HP sticker on it, it should be putting out the rated HP at the governed factory set RPM.  If they want to start selling them by the rated torque, do so as previously stated.

Richie
boblloyd


"Forty-two," said Deep Thought, with infinite majesty and calm.

Location: MA
Joined: Dec 2, 2002
Points: 424

Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #39   Feb 13, 2005 9:45 pm
Richie,   You are quite right about actual horsepower in service being less than rated horsepower.  However, I believe all manufacturers test the same way in accordance with SAE J1940 (Small Engine Power and Torque Rating Procedure) so one should be able to compare motors fairly.  If anyone cheats on this they would expose themselves to a huge class action suit.    -Bob
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #40   Feb 13, 2005 10:59 pm
Hi there Bob,

Yes, you are correct and thank you for bringing that important point up.  Still, I consider it a despicable advertising practice.  Using this LawnBoy ad to make my point, and why I'm making such a big deal about all of this, the consumer believes they are buying a 6.5 hp lawnmower and paying good money for it.  If you take the time to read the fine print, well, it's as you pointed out.  From this ad, it appears LawnBoy plays on both sides of the fence.  On one side they are telling you you're getting a very potent walk-behind mower, yet they are stating in the fine print it's a farce.  I don't recall seeing this disclaimer on any of my higher hp OPE with a Tecumseh engine on it.  LawnBoy has a slight conscience.

.

.

.

Insight SeriesMSRP:
$339.00 - $459.00

Models:
Model 10683
Model 10684
Model 10685
Model 10686
Compare All Models
6.5 hp Easy Start Tecumseh® Engine*
Push, Variable Speed, and Sens-a-Speed™ Self-Propel System
21" Steel Deck
Compact Storage
Exclusive Features Designed to Fit You
Outstanding Ease of Use Features
3-n-1 System
2-Year Complete Coverage Warranty

* This engine was manufactured and laboratory rated by the Tecumseh Power Company at 6.5 gross horsepower in accordance with SAE J1940. As configured to meet safety, emission, and operating requirements, the actual horsepower on this class of lawn mower will be significantly lower.

This message was modified Feb 13, 2005 by Richie


Richie
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