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jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Original Message   Feb 23, 2013 10:22 pm
Well I couldn't let it go.
It was just bugging me why the thing was so pitiful when it came to it's throwing distance.
So a few days ago I removed the steel that formed the center hub around the auger shaft.
Then made plates to support the center of the paddles and welded them in place.
Now it looks like most of the other Toro SS blowers out there.

Tried it out, and it really didn't make much if any difference in the distance.
And it had no effect on the engine performance.
So back into the garage we went.
Decided there was only one more thing to modify.
So I removed the stock pulley and replaced it with a stock pulley from another Toro SS.
Most of the pulley's are the same. But I think it may have come off a CCR 2000.
The stock SC pulley is 7 1/2" in diameter.
The replacement one is just a little less than 6" call it 5 7/8"
So a full 1 1/2" smaller.

Now the blower is set up just like most other Toros out there and the impeller
will be running at the same RPM as those blowers.

The really good news was that after I measured what new belt length I was going to need.
I found a great and helpful belt supplier on line.
vbeltsupply.com
I gave them the measurements told them what I needed and they said no problem.
$21.00 ($10 for the belt $11 shipping) and four hours later it was on it's way.
I should get it Monday afternoon.  So by Monday night I should know something.
It will be interesting to see how the added auger RPM directly effects the throwing distance.
And how the engine responds.  Removing the center hub steel plates probably dropped off
about 6 or seven pounds.  We'll see!

 


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sboricic


Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Points: 5

Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #5   Feb 25, 2013 7:11 am
Have you looked into "Clarence Impeller Kit"? http://smllengns.tripod.com/ I made my own with some old rubber from an assembly line and it works great. There are videos on You Tube of others that have installed the kit to show how it works.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #6   Feb 25, 2013 8:45 am
sboricic wrote:
Have you looked into "Clarence Impeller Kit"? http://smllengns.tripod.com/ I made my own with some old rubber from an assembly line and it works great. There are videos on You Tube of others that have installed the kit to show how it works.

Does he make kits for single stage machines?

That's what we're talking about here, single stage Toro Snow Commander.
sboricic


Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Points: 5

Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #7   Feb 25, 2013 8:53 am
This is the info I got from the website. The only snowblowers it will not fit are the smaller single stage ( the ones with the rubber on the auger ) and is not recommended for 2 stage snowblowers with the plastic impeller. More info is available on the website. http://smllengns.tripod.com/index.html
GtWtNorth


https://t.me/pump_upp

Location: https://t.me/pump_upp
Joined: Nov 16, 2008
Points: 264

Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #8   Feb 25, 2013 9:19 am
your photo reminded me of a question I have about my CCR2000, & I wonder if it affects your machine as well. The "flat" on the impeller seems to be wider than the exit opening for the chute.



That means snow would be thrown out the front instead of out the chute. Could that be affecting performance?

Borat, would you look at your best ss machine(s) and see how those impellers are shaped & let us know. Thanks

https://t.me/pump_upp
jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #9   Feb 25, 2013 11:24 am
GtWtNorth wrote:
your photo reminded me of a question I have about my CCR2000, & I wonder if it affects your machine as well. The "flat" on the impeller seems to be wider than the exit opening for the chute.
That means snow would be thrown out the front instead of out the chute. Could that be affecting performance?
Borat, would you look at your best ss machine(s) and see how those impellers are shaped & let us know. Thanks

The center area of the paddle is wider than the chute opening.

But the upper interior portion of the blower housing itself, just below the
chute opening is funnel shaped.
That shape is what allows the snow to flow up and out of the chute.
This message was modified Feb 25, 2013 by jrtrebor
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #10   Feb 25, 2013 4:51 pm
The Craftsman/Murray/MTD paddles are very much different than the Toro paddles. 

Here's a link with a pic I posted a while back:

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/63067-0-1.html
jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #11   Feb 25, 2013 7:42 pm

Well received the new belt this afternoon.
Put it on, and gave the blower a try.
It's better, but not enough to say "oh boy look at that".
Not enough to get out my video camera.

After trying out the SC I sat it side by side with my 210R.
So.... here are my thoughts up to this point.
The interior of the blower housings are the same design and shape.
The chute angles are the same. The chute holes are the same diameter.
The width of the blower mouth on the 210 is 21"
The width of the blower mouth on the SC is right at 23 1/4"
So the SC cuts a path that is only about, let say 2 1/4" wider than the 210.
 But lets say 2 1/2 or 3" wider.
The 210 has the 141cc R-tek which is let say putting out 5.5 hp.
The SC has the 141cc R-Tek with the ported piston and cyl walls.
Supposedly putting out 7hp.
I changed the center paddle supports so it is like most any other Toro SS including my 210.
The pulley is now the same size as most other Toro SS.

Granted the SC cuts a little wider path buts it's got 1 1/2 to 2 more HP than my 210.
With that added power it should have no problem with taking in a little more snow.
But the question is, why does it throw so poorly compared to my 210.  And most other
Toro SS in the 5hp range? The CCR 2000 with a 4.5hp throws better.
Same auger design same pulley size.

There is only one thing left that I can think of.
Maybe it's that third paddle.  Maybe that third paddle is bringing in snow to often.
Maybe it's in some way disrupting the flow of snow in the housing, who knows.
I honestly don't know what else it could be. The third auger is the only design element that is different between the SC and the 210.
It's the only thing that is different than any other Toro.  And most any other SS I've ever seen.
I would love to know what the engineers thoughts were behind thinking there was a need for a third paddle.
Maybe I'm missing something, but it just make no sense to me.
That a 7hp taking a 2 1/2" wider cut.  Can't throw snow at least as well as a 5hp
cutting a slightly smaller cut.
Especially when blowing only 2 or 3 inches of snow.
What do you think, pull the third paddle?



This message was modified Feb 25, 2013 by jrtrebor
MN_Runner


Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Joined: Dec 5, 2010
Points: 622

Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #12   Feb 25, 2013 8:43 pm
jrtrebor wrote:

Well received the new belt this afternoon.
Put it on, and gave the blower a try.
It's better, but not enough to say "oh boy look at that".
Not enough to get out my video camera.

After trying out the SC I sat it side by side with my 210R.
So.... here are my thoughts up to this point.
The interior of the blower housings are the same design and shape.
The chute angles are the same. The chute holes are the same diameter.
The width of the blower mouth on the 210 is 21"
The width of the blower mouth on the SC is right at 23 1/4"
So the SC cuts a path that is only about, let say 2 1/4" wider than the 210.
 But lets say 2 1/2 or 3" wider.
The 210 has the 141cc R-tek which is let say putting out 5.5 hp.
The SC has the 141cc R-Tek with the ported piston and cyl walls.
Supposedly putting out 7hp.
I changed the center paddle supports so it is like most any other Toro SS including my 210.
The pulley is now the same size as most other Toro SS.

Granted the SC cuts a little wider path buts it's got 1 1/2 to 2 more HP than my 210.
With that added power it should have no problem with taking in a little more snow.
But the question is, why does it throw so poorly compared to my 210.  And most other
Toro SS in the 5hp range? The CCR 2000 with a 4.5hp throws better.
Same auger design same pulley size.

There is only one thing left that I can think of.
Maybe it's that third paddle.  Maybe that third paddle is bringing in snow to often.
Maybe it's in some way disrupting the flow of snow in the housing, who knows.
I honestly don't know what else it could be. The third auger is the only design element that is different between the SC and the 210.
It's the only thing that is different than any other Toro.  And most any other SS I've ever seen.
I would love to know what the engineers thoughts were behind thinking there was a need for a third paddle.
Maybe I'm missing something, but it just make no sense to me.
That a 7hp taking a 2 1/2" wider cut.  Can't throw snow at least as well as a 5hp
cutting a slightly smaller cut.
Especially when blowing only 2 or 3 inches of snow.
What do you think, pull the third paddle?




Is it possible to measure the wind speed coming out of the chute?  2 1/2" (volume is much bigger - you have to consider WxLXH) maybe enough to affect the aerodynamcs and not creating enough lift for the snow to shoot out. I doubt Toro designer looked into aerodyanmics. Can you change the opening size just above the auger?
This message was modified Feb 25, 2013 by MN_Runner
Bill_H


Location: Maine
Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Points: 354

Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #13   Feb 25, 2013 9:17 pm
Some things to consider:

How much snow can it throw compared to the other one? A manufacturer/designer can trade off distance for volume. Did it bog down less going into deep heavy snow than the other one? Are the torque curves the same for both engines? Are the tip speeds the same?

Who the hell let all the morning people run things?
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #14   Feb 25, 2013 10:09 pm
I have to agree  that it's likely the three paddle system being designed to move volume vs. velocity/distance.   It makes me think of smaller bites being taken by each of the three paddles not having the benefit of rotational speed to achieve the same kind of kinetic energy as that's achieved by a two paddle system.  The trade off would be that the three paddle system would likely be able to sustain a higher volume rate, (particularly with heavier snow) than a two paddle system would.   That's my assumption.     

If you pull a paddle, won't that throw the balance off?  You'll have to reconfigure the paddle placement if you go with just two. 

I'd be willing to venture that you'll get the distance with a two paddle arrangement.
This message was modified Feb 26, 2013 by borat
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