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newtonian


Location: Windsor CT
Joined: Dec 12, 2004
Points: 86

Misery from not properly storing a new Ariens....
Original Message   Dec 5, 2012 1:11 pm
(thread updated 12/15/13, same problem!)


I was negligent last year and never put my new 11.5HP Platinum Ariens into storage.  It sat with 1/2 tank of fuel from the dealer, was never used during that remarkable winter and now.... when I tried starting it not a thing happened.  The motor turned over without a sputter.

Having learned a few things from reading this board (thank you) I found the carb and cleaned out the not surprisingly clogged jet with a single strand of wire from lamp cord.  The bottom of the bowl was clean, I reused the bowl gaskets tightening things enough that it didn't leak.  I didn't want to overdo it.  It started immediatly

I then added 1/2 tank of fresh gas to the 1/2 tank of old gas that came with it, some Stabil, and inflated the tires to 18PSI.

Some questions:
1)  Should I check on or clean anything else? 

2)  Is there a service manual for the engine?  Just looking at it, I didn't know which cover to remove to find the carb and still don't know which cover the spark plug is hiding under.  I see generic instructions for operating the engine, but not for service.

3)  The inside of the bowl was uniform all around, and there's a tail of sorts molded into the exterior underside.  Does it matter which direction it's installed?  I know with the older carbs it does, but it didn't seem to matter with this one.

Of interest, I had an older 9526DLE stored next to it, under similar circumstances, and it started instantly. 
This message was modified Dec 26, 2013 by a moderator


2012 Ariens ST24DLE
Semi Retired Ariens 9526 in active reserve
Unknown vintage 5HP Ariens to restore

Replies: 20 - 29 of 29Next page of topicsPreviousAllView as Outline
sscotsman


Joined: Dec 3, 2009
Points: 56

Re: Misery from not properly storing a new Ariens....
Reply #20   Dec 19, 2012 10:09 am
borat wrote:


Can't explain what happened with your carb for sure,  but if I were to guess, I'd bet that the float needle seat was contaminated from old fuel sitting in the carb.  Float needle couldn't seat properly allowing excess fuel to overfill the float bowl causing the leak.   When you started to use the machine and added fresh gas, over time, fresh fuel finally dissolved the varnish contamination allowing the float needle to finally seat properly.  



That would make sense..if the needle was sticky when I first bought the machine, but that wasnt the case..
I had already been using the machine for a month or so, used it several times, all was well..So it already had "fresh gas" in its system *before* the carb leak started..
then the leak started, then the leak stopped after using the seafoam..
So Im still convinced the sea foam did clear things up..

and I remember those "expirements" with sea foam..
many people thought they were completely invalid, because the product was being used in a way, during the experiments,
that it would never be used in real life..So those tests dont necessarily prove, or disprove, anything..

Borat, you could be right!
but its just as likely I am right..

Scot
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Misery from not properly storing a new Ariens....
Reply #21   Dec 19, 2012 10:37 am
Could have simply been a small particle between the float needle and the seat as well.  Engine operation, vibration, fuel flow may have dislodged it. 

You may be right, but, from my experience with fuel additives, I'd lean toward the alternative.  

Here's a suggestion.  Try not using fuel additives for a few years.  Be vigilant with your fuel handling practices (clean fuel, clean, sealed containers kept as full as possible, drained carburetors and fuel tanks).  See what happens.  You might be pleasantly surprised.
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1289

Re: Misery from not properly storing a new Ariens....
Reply #22   Dec 20, 2012 9:32 am
>>many people thought they were completely invalid, because the product was being used in a way, during the experiments, that it would never be used in real life..So those tests don't necesairly prove, or disprove, anything.

   That issue was addressed in the post with the factory, you missed it.   The experiment was gone over with the rep who claimed to be a funny car mechanic and in fact used Sea Foam in the same way as done in my experiments.   He gave the ok to what I had done and also said when he did them he had completely different results, that the product worked perfectly.   I did my experiments several times over a few years and never had any success.    

>>Dealer Friend makes a killing on ethanol related small engine problems

>>Shops love the ethanol for all the problems it causes.

    Many do.  It's a great line.   I've come across a bunch who fault ethanol.  I've have not had one problem I can blame on ethanol over the years with hundreds of pieces of equipment, mostly blowers, but including, wackers, chainsaws, mowers, and blowers so two strokes, four strokes, float carbs, diaphrams, pulser jets, fuel pumps, or anything else.  There are probably shoddy aftermarket parts or sub quality parts that can't deal with ethanol but I have not come across any. 

>>it cleaned a carb and fixed a gas leak

    Worked as claimed??  Even Sea Foam would not be that nutty to claim it fixed leaks.  This is a new high for the marvels of Sea Foam, "the mechanic in a can".    Few know that the Great Sage Alfred E Newman who coined "What me worry?" also coined, "Hay, it works for me".

Posted from the crypt.

newtonian


Location: Windsor CT
Joined: Dec 12, 2004
Points: 86

Re: Misery from not properly storing a new Ariens....
Reply #23   Dec 15, 2013 5:44 pm
Wow..  Same darned thing the next year (almost to the day!) and I thought I did it right.

Last fall I added Stabil to 1/2 tank of fuel and let the carb run dry and stall the engine before storing it.

This year, it started right up and thought I was set to go, but it stalled as soon as there was a load.  Repeatedly.  Then after idling a long time tried again and it went a bit further and died under load.  Impossible to start again.

Took off the plastic shroud covers, removed the spark plug and it was dry.  Removed the fuel line at the carb and it flowed well.  Removed bowl and found a little soggy rice like crud.  Cleaned the small orifices in the bowl nut I think that was the problem), ran some fuel through the bowl-less carb to check flow, put it back together and it started right up and went to work.

Thankful for boards like this that teach the average Joe what to do at times like that. 



I do want to give the carb a deeper cleaning, but haven't been able to find a model number to guide me along.  It's this exact engine:

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/us/en/engines/snow-blower-engines/1150-series-pf
I believe the part number for the engine is 08200811.

Any help identifying the carb appreciated, along with advice for anything I should be doing at this time.  I never did find the service manual for this engine, either.  Does one exist?



Should the bowl be removed and cleaned in the spring after it's run dry and before it goes into summer storage?

Its one great machine when it's running!
This message was modified Dec 15, 2013 by newtonian


2012 Ariens ST24DLE
Semi Retired Ariens 9526 in active reserve
Unknown vintage 5HP Ariens to restore

PACKO


Joined: Nov 19, 2008
Points: 63

Re: Misery from not properly storing a new Ariens....
Reply #24   Dec 16, 2013 8:10 am
To add to the ethanol situation,  I belong to a motorcycle club that can be quite anal about things like oil and fuel.  In the monthly magazine they did an article on ethanol.  basicly it was proven that gas will collect moisture (water) which will fall to the bottom of the container.  Alcohol will go towards the water and fall out of suspension therefore collecting at the bottom of the tank.    The cylinders get washed of lubrication form the initial alcohol at the bottom of the tank.  That is why ethanol gas is hard on two strokes.  The artical went so far as showing how to remove the ethanol from the gas by adding a calibrated amount of water and leting it set then drain it off taking the alcohol with it.  I dont remember the moth or year of the magazine to go back for the details or referral.
This is where Sea Foam comes in handy.  I do use it as a stabilizer in both motorcycles and both snowblowers.
jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 535

Re: Misery from not properly storing a new Ariens....
Reply #25   Dec 16, 2013 8:52 am
newtonian wrote:
I do want to give the carb a deeper cleaning, but haven't been able to find a model number to guide me along.  It's this exact engine:


The debris you found in the float bowl probably came out of the tank the first
time you opened the shut off valve.  That's assuming you don't have a fuel filter.
If in fact you don't.  I would try and find a place in the line to install one.

IF the engine is running fine. I wouldn't worry about doing a deep cleaning.
If it needed it, it wouldn't be running fine.
You could though, run some Sea Foam in your fuel for a tank or two.
newtonian


Location: Windsor CT
Joined: Dec 12, 2004
Points: 86

Re: Misery from not properly storing a new Ariens....
Reply #26   Dec 16, 2013 1:10 pm
You're probably right about the gunk coming from the fuel valve area.  It was run dry last spring, but the tank had some fuel.

I would like to clean the carb up a bit in case there's more crud in there I missed.  It's nothing more than an ounce of prevention.  The carb is either a 590907 or 798918 Ruixing.  Been looking online for guidance cleaning that specific model... does it exist?

Also, the fuel bowl has a tail on the outside that lined up with the fuel inlet.  The inside of the bowl is uniform all around.  On the Tecumseh bowl alignment is important, is it on the Ruixing?

Techron, SeaFoam or Stabil?

2012 Ariens ST24DLE
Semi Retired Ariens 9526 in active reserve
Unknown vintage 5HP Ariens to restore

borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Misery from not properly storing a new Ariens....
Reply #27   Dec 17, 2013 4:55 pm
If the engine is running, don't sweat the deep carb clean.  As JRT said, if it runs well, be happy with that.  If and when you think you need to get into the carb in a bigger way, just run that thin copper wire into every tiny little orifice, hole, jet, gallery, passage that you can see.  The tiniest are the ones in the carb throat/venturi.  They're almost invisible, particularly if you have tired eyes like a lot of us. 

In the spring, drain all fuel from the fuel tank and run the carb dry.  You shouldn't have problems the next season.  Also, I agree with adding an inline fuel filter.
niper99


Location: London Ont
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Points: 338

Re: Misery from not properly storing a new Ariens....
Reply #28   Dec 18, 2013 10:00 pm
newtonian wrote:
Wow..  Same darned thing the next year (almost to the day!) and I thought I did it right. <BR><BR>Last fall I added Stabil to 1/2 tank of fuel and let the carb run dry and stall the engine before storing it.<BR><BR>This year, it started right up and thought I was set to go, but it stalled as soon as there was a load.  Repeatedly.  Then after idling a long time tried again and it went a bit further and died under load.  Impossible to start again.<BR><BR>Took off the plastic shroud covers, removed the spark plug and it was dry.  Removed the fuel line at the carb and it flowed well.  Removed bowl and found a little soggy rice like crud.  Cleaned the small orifices in the bowl nut I think that was the problem), ran some fuel through the bowl-less carb to check flow, put it back together and it started right up and went to work.<BR><BR>Thankful for boards like this that teach the average Joe what to do at times like that.  <BR><BR><BR><BR>I do want to give the carb a deeper cleaning, but haven't been able to find a model number to guide me along.  It's this exact engine:<BR><BR>http://www.briggsandstratton.com/us/en/engines/snow-blower-engines/1150-series-pf<BR>I believe the part number for the engine is 08200811.<BR><BR>Any help identifying the carb appreciated, along with advice for anything I should be doing at this time.  I never did find the service manual for this engine, either.  Does one exist?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Should the bowl be removed and cleaned in the spring after it's run dry and before it goes into summer storage?<BR><BR>Its one great machine when it's running!

Nice diagnostics skills!!!
friiy


Location: Las Vegas, The Desert
Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Points: 600

Re: Misery from not properly storing a new Ariens....
Reply #29   Dec 28, 2013 11:30 pm
About ethanol, just my two cents. Ethanol should not be a problem with newer carbs or lines, older equipment had "natural rubber" parts that could not hold up to ethanol, everything for years has been made with synthetic rubber that holds up to ethanol. Problems with ethanol is its ability to mix with water, real gasoline is fairly good dielectric, meaning it does not conduct electricty. Ethanol collects humidity and can contain water concentrates.. The connductive mixture can cause dissimilar metal corrosion (meaning anode/ cathode situation) causing metals to powder into surface salts if exposed for long times.
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