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borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Murray in a Hurry
Original Message   Nov 23, 2012 2:45 pm
Well, we got our first dump of snow over night.  I'd say ten to twelve inches of moderately heavy, but not too wet snow.  Nice stuff for giving the new used Murray SS machine a trial.  Have to say, I'm very much happy with it.  It's actually a bit better than the Craftsman SS machine I've been using.  Probably because the 2006 Murray was virtually new and had very little time on it.  Everything on it is fresh compared to the old 1997 Craftsman. 

I had some thoughts about how well the TH139 series engine would stack up against the HSK850 engine (both 139cc two strokes).  Being that the TH139 was supposed to have been cleaned up (carb main jet change?), I figured it would be down on power but I was pleasantly surprised to see that it gives up nothing power-wise.  It actually feels stronger when running at stock rpms and is pretty much the same, if not a bit more powerful when cranked up.  One thing I did notice about the TH139 engine in the Murray is that it seems to use considerably more fuel than the Craftsman.  Haven't done any scientific study but, the Murray seemed to run out of fuel quicker.  One thing that I have to admit though, is that the Murray was working in 10 to 12 inches of fairly dense snow and that likely caused it to work harder.  Nonetheless, I'm very much pleased with this $30.00 investment.  I'll tell you, I cannot understand how people would dump something like that for $30.00.  When cranked up, it works better than machines 20 times the price. 

Due to my neighbour's husband being out of town, I volunteered to clear their driveway using their one year old 824 Ariens Deluxe two stage machine.  Plenty of gizmos on it and nice enough to use but I'm not particularly impressed with it's performance.   A couple times I had to tie down the auger drive to walk around to the front to see if both augers were working.  They were ,but for some reason, even at the slowest speed, it left a good 6" high ridge of snow on the cleared side on just about every pass.  In order to avoid that, I had to make half width passes.  It's like the machine couldn't process the snow effectively.  Everything else was fine, engine was running well, very nicely actually (Powermore brand).  Now that I think of it, I'm suspecting that the Impeller belt might need tightening because it wasn't impressing me with how far it was throwing the snow either.  The Murray, when cranked up was actually pitching snow a bit futher.  Something doesn't seem right there for an eight h.p. 24" Ariens?   What's a bit confusing is that it did a fairly good job on the 30" high slush/snow mix EOD deposit from the plow.  Nothing seemed to be slipping and I didn't smell any burnt rubber for the couple of hours I used it.  When the owner get's home, I'll have to tell him to check the belt tension.  I'm sure that machine should be more capable than that.  Compared to my 928 Simplicity,  the 824 Ariens looks pretty whimpy.  I have to conceed howerver, that the Simplicity 928 could very well be an 1128 if one takes in the variable h.p. ratings of the 305cc engine.

I took some videos of the Murray.  I'll upload one to Youtube and post in a while.

Here's a short video.  Nothing special.  Not high definition.  Just the Murray getting it done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWf6X1KsnRc
This message was modified Nov 23, 2012 by borat
Replies: 14 - 23 of 23Next page of topicsPreviousAllView as Outline
aa335


Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2391

Re: Murray in a Hurry
Reply #14   Nov 29, 2012 1:25 pm
borat wrote:
There were a series of Toros that came with the 139cc engine.  Now that would be a find!   If I could get my hand on one of those, I'd most certainly string it up.  The combination of Toro's superior design and a jacked up Tecumseh two stroke, would be something I'd like to see.  I'm certain that it would out-perform any SS machine I presently have. 

Yeah.  Those seems to be rare.  I think those were in production for one year.  It was in between phasing out the Suzuki engine and the current R-tek.

Although I think the TH139 and current 221Q/621Q chassis would work.  There's a lot more room in these new chassis. 
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Murray in a Hurry
Reply #15   Nov 29, 2012 2:31 pm
From what I could find, the HSK8xx was used in Toros manufactured in 1997. 

The crankshaft length of the Toro is very close to that used in Craftsman/Murray.   The Toro crank protrudes 3-3/8" past the mounting surface, the Craftsman/Murray protruded 3-7/32.  So, it appears that the Toro crank is 5/16" longer.  In addition to that, the end of the cranks are not machined the same.  The Murray crank is stepped down to 5/8" for approx. 13/16".  The toro shaft is 39/64".  Both cranks are tapped/threaded with 5/16-24.  Also, the Murray crank appears to have a 13/16" long by 3/16" wide keyway.   The Toro crank also has a keyway but it's 1-9/16th long. 

I guess one could use the crank and  pulley combination from a Murray and see how it lines up with the Toro drive system.  If I had a Toro machine that could receive a TH139, I'd give it a shot.   It would be a very interesting project.  A jacked up TH139 engine in a state of the art chassis......Sweet. 
This message was modified Nov 29, 2012 by borat
Loblolly77


Location: southern MD / DE
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Points: 30

Re: Murray in a Hurry
Reply #16   Nov 29, 2012 3:37 pm
Cool video, thanks. I'm jealous, we have nothing here at all for snow and my Powerclear 221QR is restless

I have a tv085 85cc tecumseh on my HOFFCO earth auger, thats a torquey one, have to really hang on.

borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Murray in a Hurry
Reply #17   Nov 29, 2012 4:14 pm
Loblolly77 wrote:
Cool video, thanks. I'm jealous, we have nothing here at all for snow and my Powerclear 221QR is restless

I have a tv085 85cc tecumseh on my HOFFCO earth auger, thats a torquey one, have to really hang on.


You're going to really appreciate the 221QR.  Excellent machine.  Make sure you have the rpms set at 4100 give or take 200.  You'd be surprised how much extra power a few hundred rpm will give you.  If I recall correctly, my machine was set around 3700 or so when I bought it. 

I've got a 1980's Jiffy ice auger with an 85cc Tecumseh two cycle engine.  Still running strong.  Great little engine.

However, an ice auger engine lives a very easy life compared to most equipment.  Anything with enough weight and power to fatigue the operator in short order doesn't see a whole lot of service unless there's multiple operators.   Even when I was half the age I am now, I recall trudging through snow, digging the snow away from the ice, drilling the hole clearing the ice/slush from each hole, repeat as required.  Wasn't long before the heavy clothing would come off to keep it from getting wet from perspiration.   A few holes, no big deal.  Cut twenty or so and you'll know you're working. 
This message was modified Nov 29, 2012 by borat
Loblolly77


Location: southern MD / DE
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Points: 30

Re: Murray in a Hurry
Reply #18   Nov 30, 2012 8:29 am
Yes, I love that 85cc Tec, I use it for planting landscape bushes and trees and fence posts. I do take many breaks as it wears me out pretty quickly. Very high quality engine, I was lucky to buy that new. Got an 8" and 2" auger for it.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Murray in a Hurry - Chute Cracking
Reply #19   Nov 30, 2012 4:33 pm
Just to let you know, that the Chinese aspect of the Murray seems to be coming through.  Cheap plastic used for the chute and housing.

Got some snow today and was clearing my driveway this morning when I noticed excessive wobbling of the chute.  I checked it out and it had a four in long crack on the left side of the chute running vertically from the bottom upward.  So I hauled it down stairs, found a piece of Krazy Karpet to make a patch, got out the JB Weld and some rivets.  Patched it up pretty good.   Took it out for a test and the patch is holding up well.  Saw the neighbour's wife out struggling with their driveway again so I went over and started working on it.  I hit a few pieces of ice under the snow and noticed that the deflector suffered a large Y shaped crack in the centre of it and snow was sifting through.  Finished their driveway, took the machine into the garage, cut a piece of 1 mm thick stainless steel plate, big enough to cover the bottom of the horizontal piece of the deflector, drilled it and riveted into position.   Solid fix.  Hope that's it for cracking.

I know the Craftsman chute is made of much better material.  It's been punished far more than the Murray and hasn't cracked anywhere.  I also notice that the Murray had a crack on the corner of the housing near the hole for fuel opening.  I drill stopped it.  Seems that the Chinese plastic isn't made for cold temperatures and believe it or not, it isn't that cold here.  It's only around 20 degrees F.  Hate to see what happens when it gets to -20F.  
GtWtNorth


Location: Montreal area, QC, Canada
Joined: Nov 16, 2008
Points: 260

Re: Murray in a Hurry
Reply #20   Dec 13, 2012 3:54 pm
Borat, got a line on a Mastercraft 5hp 21" today, and wondering if the paddles are the same as your Craftsman or Murray? I think Mastercraft is usually made by MTD & could have a Tecumseh on board so might be a candidate for boratification?


borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Murray in a Hurry
Reply #21   Dec 13, 2012 4:50 pm
That machine looks more like my MTD Yard Machine. 

It also seems to have the  same style paddles as the as the Craftsman, Murray and MTD.  Should also have a Tecumseh 139cc engine in it.   Can't really see the condition of the paddles.  What I do see, kind of look a bit worn.  The chute and deflector on the Mastercraft looks like a good solid design.  Similar to the Murray/Craftsman but looks like it's built better.   if you can get it cheap, go for it.  Might need a carb cleaning and a new belt and that's probably it if the paddles aren't too worn.  Check NAPA for belts.  I bought one there for the Craftsman for around $7.00 vs. $53.00 that Uber Gouger Sears wanted.
GtWtNorth


Location: Montreal area, QC, Canada
Joined: Nov 16, 2008
Points: 260

Re: Murray in a Hurry
Reply #22   Dec 14, 2012 12:54 pm
Thanks Borat.
On the phone the guy says it has an HSK850 # 8327C (circa 1995-2000) with electric start (that doesn't work). Wants $100 which is about the asking around here for one in that condition. Only problem is that it's about 45 minutes from here. Also it has no model number from chinadian tire which makes getting a manual more difficult.

Cheers
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Murray in a Hurry
Reply #23   Dec 14, 2012 2:09 pm
Do a compression check if you go for it.  Compression of around 110 is OK.  If it's up around 120 psi. it's a fairly fresh engine.  Don't sweat the manual.  There's not much to these things.  Basically an engine, a couple pulleys, a belt and the paddles.   Very easy to work on.  Anything that matters is visible by removing the housing or cover.  

The engine is another matter.  Hard to get good info on it.  Partstree.com has diagrams etc.  You can find an "operator's manual" on line for the engine but I've never come across an actual repair manual for it.   However, that's not really an issue.  Two cycle engines are simple enough to understand and repair. 

Let us know if you go for it. 
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