Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Inside an R-Tek engine

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jrtrebor

Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Inside an R-Tek engine
Original Message Feb 15, 2012 6:05 pm

Well I got the bolt stud welded, new old flywheel on, air gap set, good spark. Put everything else back on the engine.
Still don't have the gov. vane so I just used the spring to keep the throttle at the idle position and used the idle screw
to bump up the idle up a little. Put the engine back in the housing and it start on the third pull.
Was idling and running well, then I heard a knock, couple seconds later heard another one then another one.
So I shut it down. Was one of those sounds you know isn't good, kind of a deep sounding clank.
It only made the sound maybe 3-4 times in about 20 maybe 30 seconds or run time.
Pull the engine back out and decided to take it apart to check the rod cap.
When I took the flywheel back off found that the new key I put in was sheared.
( could have had something to do with the knock)
Was really clean inside.

Intake port I believe

Exhaust port. The two ports on the side run down into the crankcase. Which is up in the photo.

Rod end on crank. You can see the roller bearings
Rod cap was tight.

Roller bearings in the cap. Most of them stayed in place when I lifted it off.

I decided to put in the old crank I had from another R-Tek. Same part numbers.
I put a few drops of oil on the crank journal so the bearings would stay in place.
There is enough space for one more bearing, but that's all that came out.
I guess once they all get spaced that's the way it should be.

A few photos of the difference between the two cranks. Same part numbers.
Top one is the older one out of a CCR2400
The ends of the counter weights are clipped off on the newer crank. (bottom photo)
and the casting itself is a lot rougher.

New crank on the left. If I remember to I'd like to weight them both.

Just for comparison. Honda 11Hp crank on top.

Key way slot on the replacement crank.
Things were going well until I cracked a ring. Hate when that happens. There is an alignment pin in the
piston ring groove for both rings. It keeps the end gap space of both of them aligned right above each other. Which normally you don't do.
Unfortunately I didn't see the pins at first, pushed on the ring when it was on top of the pin not aligned in the end gap and.... snap.

This message was modified Feb 15, 2012 by jrtrebor

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jrtrebor

Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Inside an R-Tek engine
Reply #10 Feb 16, 2012 10:02 am

trouts2 - I agree, Bumping up the RPM on these engines does seem to be the only difference I've been able to find that explains the increase in HP.
And as borat's video clearly showed. Higher RPM does make a difference the blowers performance. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who has made the
mistake with the ring. Bugs me when I do things like that, but sometimes that's how you learn. Trial and error. Don't mind the trials, don't like the errors.

borat - I always amazes me what some people end up paying for repairs. As you said most problems are fuel / carb. related and not a big deal.
Other issues are simple part swap fixes. I love being able to fix things for someone and feel fortunate to have the knowledge and ability to be able to do so.
Been working on all kinds of things for many years. Guess that is why I kind of enjoy trying to figuring out things like the problems with this engine.
It's a challenge, unlike a lot of other no-brainer repairs.

I just ran across an ad on CL where a guy is selling his Toro 3650 because it needs a new flywheel. Hmmmm, Maybe there is a problem Toro isn't talking
much about. Thought this was curious as well. Note: On page 32 of the R-tek engine manual, it states: " NOTE: Replace crankshaft and/or flywheel if keyway is distorted or cracked in any way."

I looked and the B&S engine manual link you posted (thank you). Read that the crank / rod needle bearing count is 33. You were close.
I know, it's usually not the cost of the part it's the delay. Although the rings are going to cost me about $20.00 unless I can find a junk engine somewhere.
Either way, it's money well spent if I can get things running correctly again, the blowers in great shape.

jrtrebor

Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Inside an R-Tek engine
Reply #11 Feb 16, 2012 10:25 am

RedOctobyr wrote:

Now I'm curious- would you consider buying a new crank for the engine? If I could confirm that the crank is *definitely* bad, then I might consider that. But it also needs a flywheel. Barring some really cheap source for those,

Well actually I did have a crankshaft and flywheel from another R-Tek. It was in a CCR2400 that I parted out.
I sold a few parts (carb, ign. coil) to get back what I had paid for the blower and make a little. Then kept the rest for spare parts. I don't do a whole lot of repairs on other people's blowers
I mainly buy used blowers. Repair them for resale, or keep and upgrade / replace my personal use blowers. This 210R will be a big upgrade, it will replace my CCR2450.
I'll be going from a 2001 model year blower to a 2010 model. I'll probably ask $200.00 for the 2450 but will take less (considering the lack of snow winter we've had).
Only have $25.00 in the 2450 and a few hours time. I'll probably have about $65.00 total in the 210R barring any other problems.
So doing the math, the 2010 Toro 210R will cost me nothing. And I'll have made $110.00 for the time I spent in both blowers.

jrtrebor

Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Inside an R-Tek engine
Reply #12 Feb 16, 2012 11:00 am

Another thing that just dawned on me about this Toro. I got all of the manuals for the blower. And it states the it has a "2 year full coverage warranty".
The sticker on the engine has a manufacture date of 04/2010. So the blower is no more than 1 year 10 month old.
Wonder why the previous owner didn't take it in for a warranty repair? Never owned a new blower so have no idea how that works.

But if Toro knows they have a problem with bad cranks and or flywheels maybe they just replace the entire blower.
And the owners are told they can just keep the old ones if they choose to. I have no idea.

RedOctobyr

Location: Lowell area, MA
Joined: Nov 5, 2011
Points: 282

Re: Inside an R-Tek engine
Reply #13 Feb 16, 2012 12:58 pm

As nice as it would be of Toro to let people keep an old one, I have to expect they wouldn't want to do that. There must be better things they can do than give out additional free machines to the market, while leaving the old ones to be re-sold or something. When Cash For Clunkers happened, you didn't get to keep your old car

This would have been Blowers For Broken.

borat

Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Inside an R-Tek engine
Reply #14 Feb 16, 2012 1:44 pm

"Can you spin up a crank on a lathe to check for imbalance, though? I'd expect the crank, by itself, *should* not be balanced, since isn't it also trying to help reduce the imbalance due to the connecting rod and piston going back and forth?"

That makes sense.

Turning the crank on the lathe to watch to see if the threaded end wobbles would be more productive. But then, so would a dial indicator.

JRT:

From page 23 of the manual:

"If a new needle bearing set (32 needles) is being installed, the set will come on strip of paper and the needles will be coated with wax on one side. "

Don't drive yourself nuts looking for no. 33.

This message was modified Feb 16, 2012 by borat

RedOctobyr

Location: Lowell area, MA
Joined: Nov 5, 2011
Points: 282

Re: Inside an R-Tek engine
Reply #15 Feb 16, 2012 1:59 pm

I have to say, it's always cool to get to see the inside of an engine that's been torn apart. I'm somewhat inspired.

I have a 2-stroke weedwhacker that I'm hoping to replace with something better. It stopped running over the summer, seemed like a fuel delivery problem; I replaced the diaphragm in the carb, then it ran fine. Until the next time, and now it's tough to get running, or to keep running. It's just a cheap machine (was free to me), missing the guard, whose main redeeming quality was that it ran. Now it doesn't even have that

Really don't have the desire to spend a bunch of time to try and get it back on its feet, so perhaps I'll open the engine up instead. That would be interesting. I've never gone deeper into an engine than taking the head off (well, except for a tiny nitro-powered R/C engine which blew a conrod, and had surgery to install a new one). I'm always impressed when someone just dives deep into an engine (even better when the rest of us also get to see pics). It's one of those things I've just never had to do, so I've never tried it.

jrtrebor

Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Inside an R-Tek engine
Reply #16 Feb 16, 2012 2:46 pm

borat wrote:

From page 23 of the manual:

"If a new needle bearing set (32 needles) is being installed, the set will come on strip of paper and the needles will be coated with wax on one side. "

Don't drive yourself nuts looking for no. 33.

Interesting, on page 30 of the "2 Cycle Engines Service and Repair Instructions".
(I downloaded the PDF from the link you posted)
It says "When reusing needles, coat crank pin with a thin coat of grease. Install needles (33 to a set) Fig. 13
So which is it guys 32 or 33 ?

A few photos of the difference between the 1999 - CCR2400 R-Tek flywheel and the 2010 - 210R R-Tek flywheel. Same part #
I guess aluminum must be expensive. Because they sure cut out a lot.

New cable routing for the tension pulley, much better. They have also replaced the lower steel cross tube
with a cast aluminum piece.
This Toro is much easier to work on than the earlier models.

Large access hole for the carb. upper right

This message was modified Feb 16, 2012 by jrtrebor

borat

Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Inside an R-Tek engine
Reply #17 Feb 16, 2012 3:07 pm

I counted 32 on the image and read 32 needles on page 23 of the manual. Do you think you can put 16 needles on one side of the crank journal and 17 needles on the other? Have you actually counted your needles? If you have 32, I'd go with 32.

jrtrebor

Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Inside an R-Tek engine
Reply #18 Feb 16, 2012 3:23 pm

No I haven't pulled the rod back off the crank yet to count them. I counted 32 in the image as well.

RedOctobyr

Location: Lowell area, MA
Joined: Nov 5, 2011
Points: 282

Re: Inside an R-Tek engine
Reply #19 Feb 16, 2012 3:34 pm

This is more of a question than a statement, but might you be better off with 1-too-few than 1-too-many? Being 1 short won't significantly increase the loading on the rest. But being over by 1 could conceivably pack them tightly enough that they are forced to rub against their neighbors. And since the adjacent bearing surfaces (one vs its neighbor) are rotating in opposite directions, that would seem to be a bad thing.

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