Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

After one snow storm the chute on my 3650 is very hard to turn.

I took everything apart thinking that sand and salt must be the problem but everything is clean.  With the top shroud off the chute turns easily.  With the shroud on it becomes hard to turn.  I believe the problem is the friction of the chute turning against the rubber gasket on the top shroud.  The gasket is probably there to keep snow from entering the engine area.

I tried using a silicone stick lubricant on the gasket and this helped a little but it is still very hard to turn.

Any ideas?

Tom, I unfortunately don't have any corrective advice other than I bought my 3650 this year and have about 6 hours on it. During use I did use the adjustment frequently and haven't notice it becoming stiffer. When I got mine the through bushing in the rod support plate (mounted to the handle cross bar) was not in correctly. Although a very long shot maybe your stiffness is coming from there. I think this is definately a question for Buttlint. Best regards, Walt

Sorry Tom.........Like Walt, I only have 4-5 hours on mine so far and No probs.  Lint probably sees a lot of these and can enlighten us if this is a common problem.

Emmo, I haven't told you before, but great review on the 3650. I will right one to but need to download software so my paragraphs break first. Great machine though!, (kind of like the rice-rocket of snowblowers!) Walt

Does it make a difference if you lossen the shroud bolts/nuts a tad? Maybe the in the cold the shroud tightens up a little bit too much?

Just a guess?

Hey guys.
Just a heads up too let you know that you can download the service manuals for your machines..both body and r-tek engine manuals. If you havent already.
Manuals

There are some adjustments that can be made....but its a little difficult too describe what goes where and what does what.


This what the thing looks like. One thing too watch out for is the mounting bracket (A) isnt loose. (That is that whole bracket, that holds together the worm and gears that rotate the chute ring.) Some were shipped with the bolts not tightened. That caused the control too bind up and make noise when cranking.
You see the 4 bolts that hold down the chute ring? Those can be loosened....and the 2 at the top of the photo go into slotted holes. You can adjust there how tight that chute ring is held.
I know that those are very poor instructions....but once you take the top cover off....you will have some reference too what I am talking about. And if you have any problems you have my number.

Buttlint, A very good instructor you are! Thank you greatly for your ongoing help and patience. I greatly appreciate all of your advice and dedication to helping us. -Walt P.S.(Do we need a "driveway pass" to go blow snow during class times?!) -TOMP, I just read your review too. Great stuff. I wish that kind of info was out there when I was researching, but it seems as though the 3650 was better for me than the Commander would have been. Again, Thanks...

Walt wrote:
Thanks Walt!

Yeah I think for those of us that don't get killer snows, they're awesome!

Looking forward to your review.

I know that this doesnt relate too Toms chute problem...but I thought that as long as all of you 3650 owners and gathered in one place, I would update you on the freeze-up problem.
What Toro did too eleviate the problem in the 2005 model, was too add a heat retainer. (No. 20:1:3) That was supposed too keep it warm around the carb area. (It didnt work very well, obviously.)


On the models previous too this year...they had a rubber flap that went over choke arm. (No.34 below) and the back cover didnt have the heat shield.
That was supposed too stop the cold air and moisture from entering into the carb thru the opening in the back cover.
But when they went too new model with the heat shield.....they omitted the rubber flap on the choke arm.
So....when the last storm hit....they told us too put the rubber flap on the new models with the heat shields.
And told us too put the new covers on the old models that only had the flap.
Now that was all real nice of them....but I doubt it is going too cure many problems. (It might help the carb issue) But...it isnt going too solve the other problems. (Starter pawls and starter motor pinions from freezing.)
What really bothers me...Is another issue I ran into the other day.....The ice holding the throttle plate in the wide open position. (Kabooom!) And I know that it happens. It happened too me the other day when a piece of ice shot up from the bottom of the blower housing and wedged itself between the block and the throttle link. I shut it down right away...but some consumers may not know what too do, if they notice at all.
Toro admits that it is a possibilty...they even say so in thier update maual. I was even authorized 3 shortblocks last week...where it looks like overreving was the cause of failure.
I dont want you guys freaking over this.....but I do want too make you aware of what is going on.
As far as the issue of retrofitting new covers on older units....and old flaps on new models...Im not sure what they are going too set as policy. They havent called a recall on them yet, so I dont know if you are going too be able too walk into your dealer this summer...and have them throw one on as warrenty. The book says do it on a "as needed basis". I am not exactly sure what that means...but every one I see...is going too get the treatment. I am pretty sure that once they get the midwest damage reports from that storm, and see how many shortblocks they are shipping and start paying out the dealer warrenty claims...it will get thier attention.
Again...I still have faith in Toro products...and I wouldnt set mine out on the curb over this....just a heads up on what's going on with them.

Lint, that very kind of you to put this out here for everyone, thank you.

Lint,

Again many thanks.  I have not yet taken mine apart, but I think I will soon, just to see the realtionship of the parts and problems (carbcup location etc.)

The information you have posted is very valuable and helpful

Best regards,

Walt

Lint:

Although you did not say it directly, it sounded like you were telling me to do a gear lash adjustment.  I remember this procedure from the Snow Commander service manual.  The 3650 manual glosses over this so I didn't even think it was possible on it. 

I set the adjustment to 1/16 of an inch (as I would have on the snow commander) and also sprayed the bottom of the chute with WD40.  Smooth as silk now.

I still don't understand why this was the problem but I was sure glad you pointed me in the right direction.  If I brought it to the shop I may not have seen it for a month or more.  Thanks for your time and effort.  Maybe you will make mechanics out of us yet.

Marshall, Emmo and Walt I also appreciate you coming to my time in need. 

Yes there is good reason I frequent this site several times a day.  Everyone tries to help each other as friends would and have a good time in the process.

Tom,
I notice you have 4 snowblowers. That might need a thread of it's own, but your cr20, have you ever experienced anything like this with that one?

I have and friends, relatives, and neighbors have had CCR XXX of various years between 1996 an 2000. Not one single issue.

What in the world is going on with Toro and Ariens? Are they trying too hard to keep up with the appetite or the orange box, and letting quality or R&D slip?

Good thing they are both good companies that will stand behind their stuff.

robmints:

My first snow thrower was a Toro 521.  That little blower was my favorite.  Did little in terms of maintenance but it always got the job done.

Once we had the driveway restoned the Toro kept bending the shaft when stones were pinned between the auger and housing.  It probably did not have shear pins.  The hardware store said my choices were to pave the driveway or buy a single stage with rubber paddles.  That is when the CR20 was purchased.  I keep the CR20 because it has saved my rear many times.  Although designed for some 6-8 inches of snow I have pushed it through 18 inches. Keep in mind the CR20 went for $429 in 1987.  Today that would be well over $1000.  Compare that with the 3650 which came in at $570. 

My Snow Commander appears to be very well built.  The 3650 has had a bunch of problems.  The first one I bought, put int the back of the SUV and two miles down the road all I could smell was gas.  The carb was leaking very bad and I needed to return it.  Number two came home.  The garage smelled of gas.  The carb was not leaking badly but seeping.  Back to the shop.  New gasket didn't do it so they replaced the carb under the warranty.

Now I am faced with the reluctant chute.  Lint saved me here.

I can't say I see huge changes from the design of the CR20 vs. todays models.  Much stronger engines but that is about it.  Definitely hear alot more problems though.  As long as the consumer wants a cheaper throw away model quality doesn't need to be a high requirement.

robmints wrote:

How in the world did you understand that sentence?

Thanks lint for all of this great info!

So far I have had nothing but good luck with my 3650, but its' great to know I've got a bud in the know if I have a prob!

Thanks for being willing to share!

Hey Tom, guess whats wrong with my machine??!

Yep, stiff as a board.  Your sand description fits to a T.

It cranks, gets stiff, breaks free, gets stiff again, like there is sand or dirt in the collar.

I last used it about 10 days ago and it was smooth then.  Guess I'll have to open her up and see what gives.

Thanks lint for laying out the ground work, this will be much easier now.

Emmo:

I don't understand why the drag didn't appear for a few days in both of our cases but it sounds like the same issue.  Dr. Lints diagnosis was right on and seemed to solve the problem.

Hope your 3650 makes a speedy recovery.

I have been meaning to ask about the 3650..  I think I own its predacessor/clone.  A 1988/1989 toro ccr2000.  I think it is the first year they came out with the power curve auger  etc   4.5  either suzi or kaw engine.  Not sure as I have never had to touch it cept for putting in a plug or two.  Have prob over 500 hours on it.  The thing will not quit,  throws like a small two stage, (not unlikely to get 35 feet  throw in powder) still looks new.  i was going to disassemble last year for a refurb etc.  didn't get to it.   It does 4 or five properties every snowfall.   

So I will need a new one soon as my 15 yr old uses this one to do neighborhood.

I  am sure the 3650 is a much better machine,  but can I assume they are both built on the same platform.  A better way to say that is are they almost alike.  15 years is a long time so if they made a good thing better then I will be more inclined to buy one before mine gets beyond repair or if a lot of the basics are the same and most ccr2000's were dependable like mine, I will search harded for a used one.  I have seen a couple on e-bay but they usually seem to get a real high price.  Last two went for like 275plus 50 shipping, (at a dealer in 89 they went for 425, I paid 350 end of year price)  one of which said was only 8 yrs old. so guess I can assume they made them for at least 8 years.  

Ben07

Hate to bring this one back but another snow storm and the chute is again binding!   

The gear lash adjustment and some spray lube on the chute seems to work fine; until I actually throw some snow. 

Its not like I am turning the crank that often based on the way I clear the drive.  Maybe 5 times max while doing the EOD.  Aside from this symptom the blower is great.

Since I have had the blower for about 2 months seems like a trip to the dealer is a good idea before the warranty slips away.

Anyone else seeing the same thing?

 TomP

If that blower is still under warrenty, I would take it to the dealer (when winter blowing is over) and let Toro fix it !!!

                                                              Fred

Tom,

It still hasn't happened to me.  I will get another run tonight, had one earlier this week, and maybe if we get a storm on monday.  I do use the crank often when doing my drive.

I'll keep you posted.

Regards,

Walt

By all means guys,
Bring them in too the dealer and have them checked out if you are having a problem.
This is a good time too do it.....things are slow in the shops (unless we have another big storm) and there is usually a quick turn-around at this time of year.
We are all stilled geared into snowblowers and looking for excuses too write warrenty claims.
You will get much better service now...than you will in mid-July.
Why?......Because in the middle of mower season all memories of snowblowers will have been deleted from our memory banks and the blower will be shoved off into a corner, much like lawnmowers are at this time of year.