Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Took the wife to the Deere dealer. The 1330SE is quite a machine. Electric adjustment of the chute for both direction and deflection; a very easily controlled and fast movement without any movement of your hand from the grip. However my wife complained it was hard for her to handle; I couldn't understand why.

Our Ariens dealer had closed by then, so we stopped by Home Depot. My wife found the Deluxe 30 easier to handle. Why? The weight, 250 vs. 260, couldn't be the issue. With its cast iron gear case, the Deere/Simplicity may have had a little more weight forward. However, I think these pictures tell the story, although it is a little hard with the Ariens.

Look at the handlebars. On the Deere/Simplicity they bend up right behind the motor. On the Ariens, they stretch out further to the rear. The bars may also be a little stiffer on the Ariens. However, the key is leverage. The bars further behind the wheels allow the operator to balance the weight of the machine relative to the wheels with less effort.

The Deere and the Ariens both have 342cc Briggs engines and Hillard AutoLok differentials. Now the Deere/Simplicity has a cast iron gear case that looks like it came from heavy construction equipment, electric chute controls, standard drift bars, 16" tires (vs. 15" on the Ariens). While the Ariens impeller is 14" vs the Deere/Simplicity's 12", the one on the Deere/Simplicity is mounted on a large thick plate and overall looks like armor plate. The blades are also different, with the Deere Simplicity having a shorter scoop. Net; the dynamics of the two impellers are probably a bit different in ways that a straight size difference doesn't account for. Both use the same 342 and impeller in machines up to 36" at Ariens, 38" at Simplicity. Net, they both probably work.

Oh, the Deere is $100 less than the Ariens Platinum, a little more if you count the drift bars.

The handlebar design wasn't a factor we were expecting to be a major factor. It may turn out to be.

Briggs and Stratton have pitched most of the legacy Simplicity and Snapper designs. The only things left are the blower housings on the "large" units, and the Simplicity Signature Pro platform (the Snapper XL and JD Pro's are derivatives of this platform). The rest of the units and subsystems are derivatives of the old Murray platforms. The 1330SE John Deere uses a Murray derived drive system and handlebar design along with a Simplicity style housing. That said, the handlebar geometry and frame (w/relative axle position) were designed to be used with the much smaller Murray blower heads (12" augers, aluminum gear case, light duty construction). When you put the "large" Simplicity blower head on with the larger augers (and hence longer housing, CG), with a cast iron gear case and beefier construction, the unit gets very front heavy. This is true of the "large" Simplicity and Snapper platforms that are similar to the Deere. This is why the balance of these machines are greatly different than most others. They would be more difficult for a smaller person to maneuver due to the difficulty in raising the blower head off the ground during transport mode.

Oddly, Murray doesn't seem to have a product website. The Pro Signature Simplicitys do seem to have a much more significant handlebar:

However, the rest of it seems be similar to the pro models. That explains the 'wobble' in the handlebars. We checked the bolts, all seemed tight, but pushing into turns caused significant deflection. The impeller and auger also seemed similar, as did the cast iron gear case.  Are we saying the non-Pro Simiplicities have other things that puts them in a non-premium class? If so, are we saying all the Briggs and Stratton brands (Snapper, Simiplcity, Murray, Deere), the MTD brands (Club Cadet, Yardmaster, Troy-bilt), and the Sears models are just not premium machines? Are the Toros, Ariens, and Husqvarna's (at least the Crowns) premium machines?

Suddenly that Czech machine is looking better and better. Who needs parts and service anyway? :-)

Honda, it's the real thing!

aa335 wrote:

Honda once was an interesting company. That ship has long since sailed.

However, if you have an good explanation what advantage a hydrostatic drive is in a snowblower, I'd love to hear it.

It's still here. Manufacturing and assembly for the US market is still here. Designed in the US, made in the US. Can't say that for Chrysler or other US branded automakers.

Foreign names plates have more domestic content than domestic branded name plates. Check out the window sticker the next time you get out. Go figure.

DavidNJ wrote:

Infinitely variable ratio forward speed, easy to dial in exact speeds you need. Shift on the fly from reverse/forward and vica versa, without disengaging the transmission. It has enough torque in either direction to pin you against the wall or pull you up a slippery incline. Infinitely variable reverse speeds, versus 2 on friction disc. Don't have to try to keep grease and water out of the friction disc. Maintenance? Check fluid reservoir level and top off if necessary. Adjustment? If you haven't messed with it, leave it alone. Hydrostatic is perfectly matched to scraper mode. When the snow condition is at its worse, this snowblower is at its best. Ask people who have Honda's and have learned to adapt to its idiosyncrasies and you will find out why.

With a snow blower you don't need infinitely adjustable speeds. No maintence vs. expensive component with expensive maintence. Shifting on a snow blower is so infrequent that isn't an issue. With wheels, I don't recall using reverse after the first week or so.

The deeps hard snow stuff may or may not be an accurate comparison. It may be that the hydrostatic drive lets it go slower. In the absolute worst stuff that may be an advantage, the rest of the time it isn't. What I've noticed with wheeled units speed 1 sometimes doesn't seem slow enough, speed 3 is too fast except for the a light 1-2". and speed 6 is too fast even for transport, it is like running with the dog. That would indicate a poor choice of gearing that may be because common parts are used and packaging limitiations.

If so, the Husqvarna Crown 30 with hydrostatic drive would have the same feature. However, reviews of Husqvarna Crowns are so rare the dealers never even sold one.

On lawnmowers the hydrostatic drives are used to create independent power to the left and right wheels from a vertical motor. Typically the two pumps are on either side of the motor and drive remote hydraulic motors in the wheels. As a result, the hydrostatic drive give them 'zero turn' steering and handles an awkward power transmission route. Neither is the case with the snow blowers however I'm very surprised that dual hydrostatic drives haven't been used with tracked snow blowers to provide steering. I could see taking a zero steer mower, changing the rear wheels to tracks and using a gear drive off the motor to the impeller/auger.

Note: with the zero turn mowers, the hydrostatic drive often leads to burnt grass in turns. Reducing the speed increases the torque and that often becomes more than the wheel has traction for.

There is really no maintenance on hydrostatic other than to take a peek at the fluid reservoir. What's so expensive?

Thanks for the dissertation on lawn mower, distantly related, but irrelevant.

The Deere catalog lists the 28 inch model as weighing 255#, the 30 inch model as weighing 260#, and the 32 inch model as weighing 265#. These are Simplicity models; and the simplicity listings are even funnier. Simplicity lists their 28 inch large frame as 255#and their 28 inch professional model with their huge C – channel handlebar as weighing the same 255#.

I called the Deere technical line today because the owners manual was not online. It turns out that the 30 inch dear snowblower weighs 323#, not 260#. That makes it 73# heavier then the Ariens Deluxe 30 inch. That would account for some of the perceived higher weight: it is heavier!

Another difference it the location of the axle. On the Deere, the wheels seem to be centered near the leading edge of the engine; on the Deere, toward the middle of the engine. The Deere clearly has more nose weight holding it down; what isn't clear is which has more wheel weight, improving traction.

The combination clearly shows why the Ariens is easier to manage from the handle bars. However, when the temps are low, the wind is blowing, and the snow thick and heavy, traction and holding the nose down count for alot.

DavidNJ wrote:

After using the hydrostatic on my mower I would definitely have to reconsider that option had I thought about it in 2008 and bought my Sears Husky.  I change my speeds all the time and find my blower sometimes goes too fast in forward.  I would love to be able to crawl really slow.  Husky has had hydros for several years in their snow line.  IIRC 2008 was the first year for that option in their lineup.  My snow throwing application at my cabin possibly differs considerably than what your needs are.

I think that is the big hydrostatic advantage: low speed. I estimated to go 1mph you would need a 170:1 reduction at 3600rpm. I just took a rough estimate of my MTD: about 95:1.

The hydrostatic would have allowed any ratio by sizing the pump and hydraulic motor appropriately. That is the advantage. While maybe 60-80% efficient, a belt, a friction disc running on a very small radius, and a big reduction gear or chain have losses too.

I would agree it is a big advantage. Probably for tracked units especially where their high traction makes the appropriate against high resistance snow and the open top to their scoops let them absorb snow taller than the scoop.