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Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Tecumseh Engine Horse Power Rating Discovery
Original Message   Jan 24, 2005 3:47 pm
Recently I installed a tach/hour meter on my Toro 828 LXE and found theat the maximum operating governed engine speed was 3,300 RPM spiking to 3,330 RPM's.  I actually felt it was running a bit slowly but decided to use it, as is,  immediately after it stopped snowing on Sunday.  Well, we had about a foot of snow on the driveway with some 18" drifts, and the EOD was about 21", thanks to the snow plows.  The machine handled it perfectly until I got to the  EOD.  While blowing through it, the Tecumseh engine wanted to stall.  Nobody can tell me this is normal on a high end snowblower like this.  It was 15 degrees and it was freshly plowed loose snow.  If it had been wet, I would have been able to look past it.

With all the research I've done in the last 24 hours, I am nearly convinced that the governed RPM set by the manufacurer may have much to do with the horse power rating they give them.  The Tecumseh 9hp-11hp Snowking engines all vary greatly in governed RPM, as low as 3,350 up to 3,700 on the 11hp OHV version.  When I see that the Tecumseh 9hp is 318cc's and the 11hp is also 318cc's, where are they getting these horse power ratings from. Making an engine OHV gives you that much more power?

Well, I wasn't able to find the governed operating RPM for my Tec 8hp L-head engine, and given the wide margin of RPM's on their engines, I decided to raise the operating speed of mine to what I felt it should be.  Initially I raised it to 3,600 as it was suggested to me to do, but I felt this was too fast by the way it sounded.  So I then reduced it to 3,400 spiking to 3,430.  Roughly 80-100 RPM's higher than what it was. 

The result of this, I took it out into the street to the 28" high, five foot across snow drifts left on the side of the street from the snowplows.  These drifts are 8" higher than my auger housing.  The sun was out and the snow was nice and moist, perfect for making snowballs.  I raised the throttle to operating RPM, put it in 1st gear and off I sent it into the drift.  The chute started to toss the snow some 40 feet across the road and you could now hear the engine under a load.  The difference this time is that the engine was maintained speed and not a hint of it wanting to stall.  In fact, the tires actually broke loose and I started pushing it into the drift to the point it began tunneling.  The entire time the engine didn't faulter for a second and I actually felt I had a 10 hp engine on this great machine.

What a difference a very small increase in governed engine RPM makes.  At one point on Sunday I was upset with myself for not shelling out the extra money for Toro's top of the line 11 hp OHV version for over $1,600.00.  Well, after how this experiment worked out, now I feel I just saved myself over $400.00 because this snowblower can go through anything now.

Richie
Replies: 34 - 43 of 75Next page of topicsPreviousNextNext page of topicsAllView as Outline
Emmo


Joined: May 22, 2003
Points: 1065

Re: Tecumseh Engine Horse Power Rating Discovery
Reply #34   Jan 25, 2005 6:25 pm
jubol wrote:
  Richie,

            I know Tec makes the engine. But is Toro paying $100.00 more for the engine?

No way!  Maybe $5.00 more. Still a RIP OFF by Toro and the Rest!!

                                                                            Fred   


Pretty close Fred,  at Tulsa Engine Warehouse, the difference between the Tec 9hp and 11hp L-heads is about $6!

Tulsa Engine Warehouse
Dave___in___CT


Deliberate often...
...decide once...


Location: West-Central Connecticut
Joined: Sep 17, 2002
Points: 3159

Re: Tecumseh Engine Horse Power Rating Discovery
Reply #35   Jan 25, 2005 6:30 pm
Yep...

Sounds like the corporation marketing and money makin' machine at work...

Same engine... different inexpensive/same-priced carburator jets... a lot of profit for a different HP sticker...



Buyer beware !  



Dave...


Whether you think you can or you can't... you're right.
Henry Ford

   BCS Tractor & snowblower

snowshoveler


tides in dirts out surfs up

Location: bridgewater nova scotia...aka the swamp
Joined: Jan 3, 2003
Points: 1261

Re: Tecumseh Engine Horse Power Rating Discovery
Reply #36   Jan 25, 2005 8:14 pm
you may get the bowl nut with your kit but the main nozzle is a special order deal.i have replaced them but only when rebuilding a green carb.thats one that had gas in it for a while.

and we all know that gas will rot in one of those real fast.

seems that the more different metals you put in a carb the faster it goes sour ,then things get messy.

im still unsure of the horsepower difference,i think its more than just the carb.

im betting there is a bore and stroke change.

ill know tomorrow,soon as i get to the microfiche cards.

hmmm i feel like a secret agent...

later chris 

craftsman 10/28 snowblower with tracks   husky 372xpg chainsaw   sachs dolmar bc212 bushsaw   mondo trimmer   monster tractor with trailer    cheep wheelbarro and couple shovels and a partridge in a pear tree 
snowshoveler


tides in dirts out surfs up

Location: bridgewater nova scotia...aka the swamp
Joined: Jan 3, 2003
Points: 1261

Re: Tecumseh Engine Horse Power Rating Discovery
Reply #37   Jan 26, 2005 9:11 pm
okay here is the info that i found on the tecumseh engines.

the 8,8.5,9, 10, 10.5,11L heads all have the same piston... part # 35776a

the 10,11,12,12.5,13 ohv all have the same piston...part #40011

only differences i could find (and i might add i was on my lunch break) was in the carb.

the bowl nut (aka high speed)  part #s 640005 ,640024 ,640012 ,640137. sells for6.56 to 11.46

and main nozzle (aka plastic tube) part # 640005 ,640013.sells for 1.73 to 3.53

all prices are canadian and subject to change without notice bla bla bla ha ha

so it would seem that there is little difference between the engines.

next i went to the service manual and found that the l head engines all have the same bore and stroke but there are 2 different

cubic inch displacements .

didnt get to look for the dislacement info on the ohv engines.

so far its kinda interesting

later chris.

ps i dont know which carb takes which nozzle or bowl nut...i will need engine spec numbers for that.

craftsman 10/28 snowblower with tracks   husky 372xpg chainsaw   sachs dolmar bc212 bushsaw   mondo trimmer   monster tractor with trailer    cheep wheelbarro and couple shovels and a partridge in a pear tree 
Marshall


As Long As There Are Tests, There Will Be Prayer In Public Schools. ;- )

Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 7730

Re: Tecumseh Engine Horse Power Rating Discovery
Reply #38   Jan 26, 2005 9:14 pm
Shoveler, small blocks and big blocks huh? LOL

Thanks for you efforts and time!
mml4


Snow is good,
Deep snow is better!


Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Points: 544

Re: Tecumseh Engine Horse Power Rating Discovery
Reply #39   Jan 26, 2005 9:23 pm
I assume we are talking about the newer non adjustable jet engines. What about the older engines with the adjustable jets? We would also like to get a few inexpensive "horses" under our air boxes!

Marc 

This message was modified Jan 26, 2005 by mml4


SnapperV210P,Toro22177,TroyBilt42010Snowthrower,Craftsman Shredder,American Turbo Pressure Washer HondaGX200,Stihl011Saw,EchoPas260Trimmer Edger,EchoPB602Blower,EchoHCR150Hedge Clipper
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Tecumseh Engine Horse Power Rating Discovery
Reply #40   Jan 26, 2005 9:29 pm
Hi there Chris,

I was thinking about this today and was actually hoping the Tecumseh representative was pulling my chain on the phone the other day.  From your preliminary findings, its looking like you may have helped uncover something disturbing, to say the least.  Although I am familiar with carburetion and how important it is to performance with these engines, (from my racing days) this really makes me sit back and scratch my head.  I'd really have been ticked off if I had paid the extra money for the 10 hp version of my snowblower.  In fact, if it was an OHV 10 hp, I would have.  Thanks for going to the trouble of helping out on this one.  I would like to find the actual jetting or main nozzle for my engine and toss it in for kicks.  It might make me feel better knowing I beat them at their own game 


Richie
18Degrees


Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Points: 111

Re: Tecumseh Engine Horse Power Rating Discovery
Reply #41   Jan 26, 2005 11:51 pm
If someone would make a aftermarket high horsepower carb with an hour meter and Pri-G injector, they could sell it for $247.97 to each one of us!

                                                                                                      18 Degrees

18 Degree driveway - 928 Honda track drive - Fertilizer spreader for dispensing salt
AJace


I have an Ariens 926 Pro because I like Orange



Location: Near Gettysburg
Joined:
Points: 969

Re: Tecumseh Engine Horse Power Rating Discovery
Reply #42   Jan 27, 2005 12:28 am
Sounding more like a dirty secret.    Here I was going to pay $400 for 3 more horses.  Now I only have to pay $4-$14. 

Degrees, I'd second that carb. 

Ariens 926 DLE Professional; Toro S200; Craftsman LT1000, Echo ES-230;

Majorxlr8n


Location: Freehold NJ
Joined: Aug 6, 2003
Points: 1092

Re: Tecumseh Engine Horse Power Rating Discovery
Reply #43   Jan 27, 2005 2:02 am
I covered this very subject in depth on the WTB Lawnmower forum...

I too searched & found out that there WERE different head/piston/connecting rod/carb combinations. That line the Tecumseh rep gave about jetting is HOGWASH. You guys are too quick to "jump on the bandwagon". Chris (Snowshoveller) is the only one besides me that realizes this. On a single cylinder, small cubic inch (15 ci?) OPE engine, you just aren't going to pick up TWO or THREE HORSEPOWER by a jetting change. NO WAY. I've changed jetting on automotive engines & dynoed them - I have found that I never gained more than 10-15hp on a properly carburated engine. These engines were all in excess of 400 cubic inches, mostly Pontiacs (400, 406, 428, 434, 440, 455, 462, 473, 480, 496ci) powerplants. Those "odd numbered" ci displacements are different rod/stroke/piston height/crankshafts to obtain some LARGE displacements, and better rod/stroke ratios for high RPM drag engines (6500 RPM+). These Tecumseh's have about 15 cubic inches, so I want someone to provide me with PROOF that a jetting change can yield 2 or 3 more HP on such a small engine. Its done by changing a COMBINATION of other engine components that will change: compression ratio, head flow, higher CFM carb (CFM=cubic feet per minute, a measurement of airflow). These items will provide a small, believable hp increase. Carb jetting alone on a one-lunged engine will not.

Mods - if you can go back (if possible) to WTB & obtain the thread where I posted my findings, it may shed some light here. I spent quite a bit of time researching this & wish not to "reinvent the wheel".

Nuff said...

Marty

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