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SnowRemover


Toro 828LXE

Location: Near Albany, NY
Joined: Jan 12, 2005
Points: 139

Toro vs Craftsman
Original Message   Jan 14, 2005 10:52 am
Here are the facts I can find:

 

Model    

Toro

Craftsman

 

Price      

$1,294

$1,190

(all taxes, extended warranties included)

Warranty

2 yrs

5 yrs

(both in-home / in-home pickup)

CR rated

# 1

# 4

 

Free wheel steering

Y

Y

 

Horsepower

8 hp

9 hp

 

Wheel Size

15 “

16 “

 

 

Everything else (clearing path, etc) seem equal.  Normally I would jump on the Toro, based on its superior rating, not only for this model, but for many of their other models that have consistently done well in CR ratings.  The only caveat is, in a big storm (15” or more) does anyone think the extra 1 hp of the Craftsman will make a difference.  Two people I work with have Ariens (hard to believe I don’t disclose everything about my life in one post so this fact might shock some people).  One loves his 8.5hp Ariens and says it is more than adequate even in 15” storms, the other disagreed and traded in the 8.5 hp Ariens for an 11hp Ariens.  The “end of the driveway” was the argument for the latter co-worker getting a bigger machine.  Both co-workers say their wives could not use their Ariens due to handling is difficult (especially getting it out and in the garage where the pavement is dry).  So for me, the Ariens is not a product I want to consider.

 

I’m curious as to your opinions specifically about the hp between the Toro and the Craftsman.  Is it necessary to get a bigger machine (I live in upstate NY, but not in Syracuse or Buffalo – near Albany, where we get about 60” year in total snowfall). 


This message was modified Jan 14, 2005 by SnowRemover


It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!
--Friedrich Nietzsche
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SnowRemover


Toro 828LXE

Location: Near Albany, NY
Joined: Jan 12, 2005
Points: 139

Re: Toro vs Craftsman
Reply #4   Jan 14, 2005 11:18 am
The Sears website specifies the unit is using a Tecumseh 9hp engine.

I've read others recommend the Murray over the MTD, but I don't think Murray is making Craftsman any more - they are in Chapter 11.

Do you think the Toro 8hp is close enough in power to the Tecumseh?  While it's only 1hp, the difference is 12%.

Thanks.

It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!
--Friedrich Nietzsche
SnowRemover


Toro 828LXE

Location: Near Albany, NY
Joined: Jan 12, 2005
Points: 139

Re: Toro vs Craftsman
Reply #5   Jan 14, 2005 11:20 am
robmints wrote:
SR,

You have some problems with your chart. Check your facts.


Could you be more specific?  I rechecked it, but don't see a mistake.

It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!
--Friedrich Nietzsche
Jonathan


I am a marvelous housekeeper. Every time I leave a man I keep his house. -Zsa Zsa

Location: Near Albany NY
Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Points: 320

Re: Toro vs Craftsman
Reply #6   Jan 14, 2005 11:59 am
I don't think the difference in horsepower between the two machines you have listed is significant. The Toro might take a bit longer to complete the job, but I don't know for sure. In my case I went with an 11.5 HP vs. 8HP because of the length of my drive and having to deal with two EODs (have rental property next door). I didn't go with the more expensive differential (professional series) because of budget. The machine turns on a dime with one wheel unlocked.

This morning I spoke with someone at work who has had a side business for many years doing repairs to mowers, snowblowers, and rototillers. Without mentioning this forum I asked him if in his experience he has seen any difference in quality between the Ariens, Toros, and Simplicities vs. the machines made by MTD, Murray, and AYP. He said he would go with the first group.
This message was modified Jan 14, 2005 by Jonathan


2004 Ariens 11528LE, Troybilt Horse "Big Red" Tiller (original), Troybilt Tuffy Tiller (original), Sears LT1000 mower, Lawn Boy 7073 21" mower, Stihl FS55 RC trimmer, Poulan Countervibe 3400 chainsaw
lland


Joined: Sep 17, 2002
Points: 605

Re: Toro vs Craftsman
Reply #7   Jan 14, 2005 12:12 pm
"...but I don't think Murray is making Craftsman any more - they are in Chapter 11."

From the article: "We will operate the business as usual, ensuring a seamless transition for our customers,..."

United Arilies is in chapter 11 and still flying
US Airways is in chapter 11 and still flying (for now)
K Mart continued to operate "as ususal" through chapter 11

Most companies that file for chapter 11 protection continue to operate and many come out of it stronger than when they went in (they are allowed to unload alot of obligations).

The concern is WILL they come out of chapter 11 or will MTD buy the name?

LL

2001 Toro 20023 Personal Pace
2002 John Deere Trimmer/Edger/Blower
2003 Craftsman DYT 4000 - 25HP/48" w/bagger
2003 Toro 826LE Snowblower
2004 Mantis Tiller/Dethatcher/Aerator/Edger
2005 Husqvarna 145BT Backpack Blower
Rubbermaid 10CF Trailer
Craftsman 40" Plug Aerator
SnowRemover


Toro 828LXE

Location: Near Albany, NY
Joined: Jan 12, 2005
Points: 139

Re: Toro vs Craftsman
Reply #8   Jan 14, 2005 12:19 pm
lland wrote:
K Mart continued to operate "as ususal" through chapter 11

Didn't they just "buy" Sears? 

But I did a little more digging on Murray, and it doesn't look good.  As of Jan. 6 "Briggs & Stratton is in negotiations to acquire most of the assets of bankrupt Murray Inc., a consumer lawn and garden equipment manufacturer that owes Briggs about $40 million."

One really interesting point in the article was this: "On January 4, the Wall Street Journal published an analysis of the potential deal. In that article, some industry observers speculated that Briggs may be looking to enter the consumer market with Briggs-branded equipment."
Click here for article.


It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!
--Friedrich Nietzsche
Dave___in___CT


Deliberate often...
...decide once...


Location: West-Central Connecticut
Joined: Sep 17, 2002
Points: 3159

Re: Toro vs Craftsman
Reply #9   Jan 14, 2005 12:29 pm
Hi...


..."
The only caveat is, in a big storm (15” or more) does anyone think the extra 1 hp of the Craftsman will make a difference.  "...

Can't say without using both side-by-side in the same snow...

It's not just the HP that affects performance... this is only one part of it...
A lot of the machine's design and components used can/do affect it a lot...

For example...
Quote from BCS AMERICA:

"WHY INVEST IN BCS

 I. PERFORMANCE In virtually all outdoor, walk behind, power equipment sold in the US, power is transferred from the engine to the transmission by a belt. At its best, a belt loses 15% of the engine’s power in the transfer. In reality, the percentage is much higher. Every BCS tractor, by contrast, utilizes a spring-loaded, double cone clutch to transfer the engine’s power. The clutch loses less than 3% of the engine’s power. Because it is self-adjusting, the clutch maintains this high degree of efficiency through decades of use. Many manufacturers couple their belt(s) to transmissions that are nothing more than more belts and/or chain drive mechanisms. BCS combines its clutch with super-efficient transmissions of shafts and gears. "...


Dave...
This message was modified Jan 14, 2005 by Dave___in___CT


Whether you think you can or you can't... you're right.
Henry Ford

   BCS Tractor & snowblower

SnowRemover


Toro 828LXE

Location: Near Albany, NY
Joined: Jan 12, 2005
Points: 139

Re: Toro vs Craftsman
Reply #10   Jan 14, 2005 12:36 pm
Dave_in_CT,

Does BCS make snow throwers for anyone?

   


It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!
--Friedrich Nietzsche
Dave___in___CT


Deliberate often...
...decide once...


Location: West-Central Connecticut
Joined: Sep 17, 2002
Points: 3159

Re: Toro vs Craftsman
Reply #11   Jan 14, 2005 12:58 pm
I don't know if BCS manufactures for anyone else...
I really really doubt a standalone snowblower would be one if they did...

They make professional grade 2-wheel tractors that use a variety of attachments...
like...
rototiller...
snowthrower...
brush cutter...
chipper/shredder...
and lots more available from them & other manufacturers...

I have an older BCS 8 HP 2-wheel tractor...
...the single-stage snowthrower attachment... and other attachments...
Here it is in action...






Their website is www.bcsamerica.com

Be ready for "price sticker shock"...   


Dave...

Hmmmm.... the picture was here... gone now...
This message was modified Jan 14, 2005 by Dave___in___CT


Whether you think you can or you can't... you're right.
Henry Ford

   BCS Tractor & snowblower

Jerry944T


Toro 8/26 LE
Love the joystick!


Location: Haverford PA
Joined: Sep 2, 2003
Points: 148

Re: Toro vs Craftsman
Reply #12   Jan 14, 2005 1:40 pm
Buy the Toro and don't look back. My toro, with 8HP, threw more snow much further than a neighbor's Arien that had 11HP.

The Joystick alone is worth the difference in price not to mention the re sale if that ever becomes an issue.

Remember though, my opinion is worth what you paid for it.

Jerry
SnowPro


Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
Points: 395

Re: Toro vs Craftsman
Reply #13   Jan 14, 2005 2:09 pm
SnowRemover wrote:
The Sears website specifies the unit is using a<BR>Tecumseh 9hp engine
Do you think the Toro 8hp is close enough in power to the Tecumseh?  While it's only 1hp, the difference is 12%.Thanks.


The difference is quite literally nothing. They are the SAME Tecumseh engine. It is all marketing and stickers.

For example: The engine in question has a dyno rating of say 8.4 horsepower. So, Toro looks at it and says "let's call it 8 hp". Ariens says " close to 8.5 so that is what we will call it". Sears looks at it and says " well it is more than 8 hp and we know that horsepower sells so lets order the 9.0 hp stickers." Same engine. Different perspectives. Bottom line....... look at the other features NOT the horsepower rating of similar machines.

Ken
:)
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