Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

  I’ve got a few questions on rebuilding a small engine.  The engine is a Tecumseh HSSK50 67366S.   I think the model year is 1998.  It came off an MTD Gold 526 snowblower and had a broken rod.  The exploded parts view is here:

 

http://www.outdoordistributors.com/pdf/Tecumseh/TECUMSEH-MODEL-HSSK50-67366S-PARTS-LIST.pdf

 

   I’m just experimenting to see what’s involved with doing some repair on engines and this engine was broken and free so a good candidate.  If I mess it up in learning it won’t be much of a loss. 

 

Question 1:

  After taking off the head I tried to move the piston back and forth with my fingers.  It seemed tight and did not move from side to side.  The reading I’ve done says to measure the space at the wall.  I assume they meant the ring to wall distance and not the piston to wall distance. 

    They mentioned taking a reading of the gap but did not say how to do that.  How do you take a measurement of that distance? You can’t use thin flat sparkplug feelers as they’re too stiff to bend with the wall shape.  They would press out so not give an accurate feel.  How do you measure the ring to wall gap?

 

Question 2:

   What are acceptable limits for the gap?

 

Question 3.

   I don’t have a dial gauge that can take an inside reading of the cylinder.  I have dial calipers but I don’t think they would be accurate enough.  There may or may not be a ridge at the top of the wall so the calipers would read the ridge and not be able to get deeper.  Is there a way around this without having a special gauge for taking the reading?

 

Question 4:

   Given that I don’t have gauges for an inside wall measure would it be unreasonable to assume a 10 year old motor would be worn and just put in .010 oversized rings?  Lightly hone out the cylinder wall and go with .010 rings? 

   Just say the motor was lightly used and the wall in excellent shape.  Would putting in .010 rings cause problems by being too tight?

 

Question 5.

   On opening up the case I looked for timing marks.  I think one is a hole in the cam gear.  I did not move anything before taking out the crank and cam.  I could not find another mark on the crank gear to mate with the hole in the cam gear. 

   I should have made some scratches but did not for some reason.  I think I got a phone call and forgot when I got back.  Does anyone know the marks on this engine?  My reading said to look for a raised dash or one of the teeth on the crank gear to be beveled.  I could not find either or any other mark.  How can I get the alignment right?  I could put it back together with the case open and hand turn the crank and watch the valves but I think I might be off a tooth or two doing it that way. ??

 

Question 6:

    The crank journal (the place where the piston gets bolted to the crankshaft) looks shiny and without scratches.  The piston and rings look undamaged.  The valves and tappets look fine.  There is no place inside that seems to have gotten hit by the broken rod end or the broken bottom part.  The only place that got scratched was on the crank.  That was big bulging part I think is a counter weight for the crank.  It got scrapped quite a bit over a few inches but I don’t think there’s been enough metal removed to make a difference in weight so seems like that damage would not factor in. 

   Given that all the parts seem ok if I were to bypass putting in rings the minimum repair would be putting in a new rod and at least cleaning and lapping the valves.  The minimum job would be doing that and putting everything back in and torque what ever needs to be touqued.   Does that sound right?

 

trouts

I have never seen a head warped to care about.  

Do you have a piece of the old gasket stuck on the edge somewhere?

Are all the bolts for the head the same size?  Sometimes there are three or more bolts longer around the exhaust valve too draw and dissipate heat in the block.. If these bolts are installed in the wrong spot they may bottom out before tightening the head.  Also are your threads clean in the block?  Maybe you are trying to drive these bolts into dirty packed treads  (  burned up oil grissle)  not really seating against the block with the gasket...

Are you using a old gasket?  The lead plate head gaskets seal great, but are one use only,  ridgid Gaskets with the tin sometimes burn through..

The new gasket sould be able ,I imagine, to take up .025 " easy,   they are very thick..

All I ever did was clean the head and block surface with scochbrite to take the carbon/ old gasket pieces off... I never cared to even too see one warped,  (it never mattered,  the gasket always held...)

Later, Good Luck ...   I gotta go back to work,   Gotta broke RB211,  need to look up parts.

Friiy 

   The flywheel key was broken and the flywheel at exactly 180 out.  After testing since it was 180 out I figured I had the cam in wrong.  On starting to unbutton the engine I found the broken key. 

 

   After putting in a new key it starts, runs and seems to be fine except it runs away.  The governor is not kicking in.  I don’t know how that can be as there’s only an arm and I think it just butts up against the wheel weights. 

   The arm is toward the inside of the case which I think when under spring tension would snug the arm against the governor wheel on the side towards the back of the case.  ?? So I’ll have to check what up there. 

 

   It seems like the arm is not being moved so possibly on installing the cam the arm got out of place and toward the cover side of the engine but if that were the case the outside part of the arm would almost hit the carb the way things are setup on this motor.   It could be I have the linkage positions wrong.  I have a couple of similar motors so will check the linkage on those.  So it runs away but I could test it by working the throttle.

 

Niper99 – I took a compression reading before I tried starting the engine and it was about 115 so the leak a puzzle i.e. decent compression with a leak.  But that has happened to me with a leaking sparkplug.  I got 90psi but could not start the engine due to the plug threads leaking.  I don’t know how I could get 90 unless the rubber from the tester was enough to seal the leak. 

 

   The talcum powder test was false.  The muffler gasket broke and I did not have a replacement.  It was causing the talc to blow around.  What I thought was a line of talc removed from the head gasket seam was just talk that fell off in a line from the joint so misleading.  

 

   After a few short runs the engine tests at 115 psi.  With new rings and valve lapping I was expecting at least 130-150.  The cylinder was honed with a medium stone so possibly the psi might improve with wear.

 

   Because I thought the timing gear was wrong and going to unbutton the engine I drained the oil.  Up to that point the engine had not run and was only hand cranked many times.  The oil was loaded with very opaque gray color and the first oil to come out filled with fine suspended crud.  I’ll save that oil and tank it for later use as the first oil in another rebuild. 

 

   I’m a bit disappointed by the governor not working but that should be fixed with either getting the linkage right or opening the case again and getting the governor arm in the right position.  It sucks but minor.

 

   All in all I’m pretty happy that I made this much progress and learned quite a bit.  The next engine will go much smoother.  Thanks for all the help.  It’s really appreciated.

trouts

  The glue I mentioned in other posts broke down so tiny spots of oil started showing up on the tires.  The epoxy turned to soft gum and let go so a few holes were exposed.  (The holes were from drilling into the hair line crack).  So muxh for the 3600lbs and 250 degrees rating.

 

   Since the holes and crack have to be cleaned and re-epoxy’ed  I drained the oil to unbutton the engine.  In the dregs of the oil was  what looked like a white tooth from the governor gear.  It makes sense as the governor was running away and very touchy to set.

 

    The drained oil is again very gray.  ??  Possibly something is wearing and it’s fine aluminum suspended in the oil.

If it is metal it should settle out of the oil,  maybe put it into a glass jar and watch it...

it is not part of a ground up governor gear is it (plastic)?

You can always take it apart and check for chafing,  or wear in diffrent spots.

Could your piston pin clip have come aprt and beat a little metal off your piston or cyclinder?

?????

Friiy

  Opened up the engine. Three teeth were off the governor gear and intact at the bottom of the case.  There were also a few small chunks which were I think were epoxy which melted and fell off the case side.  They broke up pretty easily with a knife.

 

   The oil was changed after a few minutes of running and put in a glass jar.  It sat overnight.  That one had the small chunks, gray, and with microscopic pieces of metal which shine when put to a light. 

   The second batch of oil had about 10 minutes of run time and sat overnight in a jar.  It did not have any chunks but did have microscopic pieces of metal but fewer.  It was darker than the first batch. 

   It could be the small flecks are from the cylinder scoring.  I did not score it much but it was with a medium stone so it could be the flecks are from that.  It might also be that there’s some normal leaking past the rings due to the scoring making the oil gray. 

  

   The cylinder wall still had the scoring but looks like it’s wearing in.  The wall seems very smooth.  There’s no missing metal like chunks broken off the cylinder skirt so possibly the flecks are normal remnants of the scoring.

 

   When the engine was running it seemed overly noisy.  I had it mounted on a snowblower frame but pretty sure all the noise was from the motor.  I listened to it with long screwdriver and could not hear any grinding inside. 

 

    The governor gear assembly is about 10 dollars so cheap enough to give it another go.

trouts

  Got the second motor finished and running today.  An older 7hp Tecumseh and it ran fine.

    The oil from this one was like the 5hp mentioned above.  After several minutes of run time I took out the oil and it was about the same as the oil from the 5hp.  The color must be normal and a result of scoring and blowby.   It definitely was not due to particles or crud left in the case as I steam cleaned the inside.

 

    Just looking at the dipstick there’s a slightly noticeable tint but seems clear with so little oil.  When all the oil is in a jar the oil is opaque.  I ran the oil through a few layers of cloth and only trapped a few minute specs of flashy stuff which must have been metal.  The grayish stuff that’s trapped is hardly noticeable other than it’s color in the cloth.

 

   It may be that the medium stones I used for scoring leaves the wall surface too rough. Next time I’ll score less and with fine stones.  One of the guys at the local dealer said I could skip scoring on an aluminum block but not case iron.  He said the aluminum was soft enough that particles of stone get imbedded into the wall.  ??

   Thanks again for all the help.  It was appreciated.

trouts

If your oil has a greyish hue to it, that is normally an indicator or moisture (water) in the oil.   The best solution for this is to flush your crank case.  Some people use diesel fuel or kerosene to do this.  It seems to aid in getting water out of the tight spots. 

Not sure what you're trying to glue but anything on an engine's metal parts is best repaired with JB Weld.  This stuff is close to miraculous.   If you don't have any, get some.  It's simply amazing.  

I read an account of a guy on a dirt bike riding out in the desert when he punched a small hole in his crank case.  As a result, he lost all of his engine oil.  Being twenty miles from his vehicle and not having enough water to get himself out alive on foot, he set out to repair his crank case with some JB Weld Quick that he luckily had with him.   He repaired the hole and while the JB Weld Quick was curing, he drained the oil out of his fork.  He poured it into his engine and cautiously rode back to his vehicle.  With no oil in the fork,  and the engine with barely enough oil to keep it running, It was a  slow and rough ride.  Now that dude deserves the "McGyver of the year" award.        

Borat,

    I had used PC-7 on the second attempt to plug the holes before you posed your comments.  The local dealer said it would hold through the high temps and should be strong enough.  Actually given the holes I think strength won't be an issue but ability to stand hot oil important.  The dried epoxy does not see all that strong so I'll probably get another shot at filling the holes.

   The governor gear which was stripped came in.  On looking at removing the assembly I'm a little puzzled about getting it out.  The gear assembly seems to just sit on a post - the governor shaft.  There's a metal coller stopping the gear from riding up so it will not slip off.  I looked under the assmebly with a mirror and there's nothing to unbutton so it seems like a press fit.  The governor assembly must slip onto the governor shaft with the coller on top of the gear.  The shaft seems like it would then be inserted into the gear case.  Is that right it's just a press fit?  I tried to move the pin with pliars with a cloth wrapped around the governor shaft but could not get the shaft to move.  The pliars even dug into the shaft.  How do you get the governor shaft removed?   Since I think the collar does not come off it seems the shaft must pull out but if not and I use a lot of force I might crack the case.  ??

trouts

Followup on the rebuilds.

   The 5hp with the cracked block is finished and running very well.  Currently there is PC-7 in the cracked area with about 20 minutes of run time with the glue holding under heat so far so good on that part.  The motor is running very smoothly.  This motor had broken governor which I missed during the initial buttoning up.  The rod or a piece of the rod hit the flyweight and teeth on the governor assemble breaking the plastic governor gear.  There were long delays getting the assembly off it's post and getting a new one.   So the 5hp is running very well and the glue holding so far.  If it fails I'll take it apart again, clean everything and re-glue with I think it's JB-Weld.  The big deal for me is the rebuild part went very well.

  During the delay a 7hp Toro that was pushing oil was rebuilt and that one went very well.  It got rings and a valve job.  All the internal tolerances were to spec with the Tecumseh L-Head manual except the cylinder bore which I can't measure. 

   Also finished after delays was a Tecumseh 8hp which got rings, rod and a valve job.  The governor arm was not moving and controlling high speed so I took it apart and inspected everything.   Everything was ok in there and on putting it back together the governor responded properly so a mystery.  I don’t see how that was possible because there’s no room in there for the governor gear to be anyplace but in it’s proper place and weight able to move.  ??  Anyway I put the cover back with just a slit of an open space and a flashlight shining in to verify the govern gear meshed properly and then buttoned it up. 

   This all has been a great experience for me and very enjoyable.  I’ve had a lot of questions on this thread and a couple of others with related questions and appreciate the all the helpful advice.  When I started out I never had a concept of rings (plural) and the function of the distinct ring types.  By the way, Friiy, I never got a paper with the ring sets until the third set of rings cam in which explained the ring types and groves which by that time I was aware of.  If that paper came with the first set it would have solved a lot of questions I had. 

   The rebuilding was enjoyable, done in the cellar on my spare time watching TV and will give a few snowblowers an extension on life.  I’ve got two more motors with problems and will be doing those in the cellar during the Olympics.   As a note Harbor Freight opened an outlet close by and offering a 6.5 hp OHV engine with a cast iron bore for $129.  These motors have fantastic reports  on the net and an alternative to rebuilding. 

Thanks for the help:

Trouts2

Sounds like a lot of good news.  Before you buy one of the Harbour Freight engines make sure you can get parts for it...

Now Harbour Freight  also sells some models of Briggs and also Robins. (both good).   But the Chen  Wen, or what ever is...  IS from what I hear impossible to get parts for..  the Robin is hard to get parts for..   It looks like Honda, part for part but is made cheaply in China and they rattle apart over time.

Good Luck,

Friiy