Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I was looking at the Ariens site while researching the answer to another posting and noticed they have the 2007 offerings up.

My initial, admittedly picky,  impressions are:

1. They now have a line of tracked blowers, I suspect that they use a pin lock out system but it is not clear, there is a description on some models of an axle mounted lockout. the "Features" section then says it has smooth maneuverability but doe not explicitly state what type of traction control is in use. This must be a new meaning to the word "smooth" if its in reference to a system that requires you to stop, move around to the side, engage/disengage the axle lock out and then move back to the operator position. If its trigger operated it doesn't mention it. These are the most expensive of the offerings and I would expect them to use the differential drive system with remote locking;
2. The differences between the "Pro" line and the "Deluxe" line are more obvious. Swath widths,  engine type ( L-Head, OHV), auger gear case and engine HP ratings are all different, see below for the probable traction control differences;
3. The tracked versions use the B&S Intek Snow engine, all others are Tecumseh
   
4. The "Pro" description mentions in passing "automatic traction control, which used to mean a differential. It is not listed in the "Features" section and the pictures don't seem to have triggers.
5. The fact that I am looking at pictures to deduce a major feature says something about the Marketing decisions being made;
6. I have not been able to find a reference in the "Deluxe" descriptions as to what sort of traction control is used. For all we know its a solid axle and the the thing just goes in a straight line. I suspect its a remote locking axle but can't say for sure;
7. The FAQ says that the "Pro" line uses "traction control" ( a.k.a. differential) while the "Deluxe" uses remote lock out, unfortunately the "Deluxe" line includes the 1130 DLE, the "D" is supposed to mean Differential. It looks like the FAQ wasn't changed from last year since there is no mention of the tracked models;
8. "Chute Turning Radius" is listed as 200°. Degrees are used to measure angles, radii are measured in units of length ( inches, centimeters, furlongs ...);
9. Chute turning is generally listed as remote control from the operator console yet the feature uses a picture of a manually controlled chute.

Thoughts

I am obviously upset with the lack of traction system descriptions. Since this was always a major differentiator between the "Pro" and "Deluxe" lines the omission from this year's descriptions is frustrating and confusing.

Last year the "Pro" and "Deluxe" lines were almost identical except for the traction systems and its was hard in my mind to justify the extra expense for the Pro when the trigger axle lock out seemed to work just fine. I have a hunch that a lot of Deluxes were sold instead of Pros because of this. The reaction has been to change the lineups so they are less "comparable". The effort has muddied things up a bit, I personally find it frustrating.

The inclusion of the 1130DLE in the Deluxe line up may have been driven by the aluminum auger gear case, either that or the "D" is a typo.

I suspect there will be a lot of discussion about this.

Nibbler,

Sorry about the website. I'll see what I can do to get it corrected. If you have questions I can answer them.

The differentials are all new this year. No triggers or lockouts are required. It is fully automatic. All non-track Pro models have this as well as the ST1130DLE Deluxe.

The exception is the track models. They use the old style lockout knob at the axle. The remote trigger system and automatic differential did not work well with these units. Most usage of a track model is done with the tracks locked (this could be why Honda and Yanmar do not have differentials). When in differential mode the units turn much better than the Honda, but at the expense of pure traction. When locked, they are equivalent.

The Deluxes for 2007/2008 use a different platform than the Pros (last year they used the same 926,XXX platform).

PK

Snowman

Thanks for the reply. I try to be brief:

1. Do the tracked models have a differential or not? If I remember correctly the hub lockout was used on the axle lock as well as earlier differential models. Since you said "when in differential mode" I'm assuming they do. I consider a differential to be a major selling point so highlighting it on the web site would be good.
2. I take it that by "fully automatic" differentials you mean always on with no axle lock option. To me it sounds like a downgrade of last year's offerings. I remember comments that indicated that if you had differential you hardly ever locked the axle so it may not be as big a deal as I think. I do tend to like having the option but if its something that never gets used and causes complexity then it does make sense to eliminate it.
3. Why don't triggers work with tracks? Given that they would be the hardest to turn without either a differential or an axle release I would think that making it easy to use with a trigger system would be a "Good Thing" (tm).
4. What are the major differences in the platforms used by the Pros ( 926XXX ) and the Deluxes ( ??????)? Thicker metal, better bearings, better belts, whatever? The only difference that I can see from this year's specs is that the Pros are Tecumseh OHV while the Deluxes are Tecumseh L-Heads and I don't think that is a platform issue.
5. Why are the tracked units powered by the B&S Intek Snow while all the others are Tecumseh Snow King? I would have thought that the tracked units would also be Tecumseh Snow King OHV powered, just to keep your engine inventory simpler.

Thanks for taking the time to look in on us.

nibbler wrote:
1. Yes the track models have a differential.
2. The fully automatic differentials unlock and lock automatically as traction requirements dictate.
3. The track models have a different axle load and wheel slippage proposition that didn't play nice with the dog clutches in the differential (on the trigger diff). The auto differential also does not work well with the track models because it requires a minimum differential wheel load to unlock for turning that could not be accommodated on the tracks without an exaggerated lateral wheelbase.
4. The (new for 2007/2008) 921,XXX series Deluxes are scaled slightly smaller than the Pros and are now more comparable to competing models. There were some complaints that the large mainstream consumer models were too imposing for some and presented a maneuverability disadvantage for those without a heavy hand so to speak. 21" housing height (vs 23.5 on Pros), 14" rakes (vs 16 on Pros), etc. The 14" fan, high flow impeller housing, and long throw discharge chute were retained to ensure there would be no performance drop. The photo on the Ariens main web page shows one of these Deluxes blowing against Cub and Simplicity's large models. The performance delta is very significant and should still closely emulate Pro performance..
5. The track models use B&S engines due to the fact that they have half the sound level of the comparable Tecumseh's. Many of the track models will be used in commercial venues. Low sound levels can be useful for being less intrusive to those nearby (i.e. customers at ski resorts, etc.).

Snowmann wrote:

Paul, I expect to be picking up a Leftover 2007  8526DLE ( 926013) very shortly. Is there any issue that I should reconsider not buying this unit?  Was the differential unreliable?

I was looking for similar performance to my 1128PRo in a smaller unit.

This unit should do the trick. It is only an 8.5hp L-head, but the flow improvements made since your Pro were made are more than enough to offset that.

How much are you paying for it MM?

Two things to note...

The 926013 will have the older trigger style remote differential. If you plan on needing to constantly require the lockout or use the unit in locked mode often, the new automatic differential is definitely an upgrade. With the trigger differential, the trigger must be held down to keep the differential locked out. This is acceptable to the majority as most times the unit is used in differential mode (the lockout is usually only needed at the EOD when wheels start to slip out). However, in very heavy snow areas there are some  who want the differential locked out most of the time for traction. This requires the trigger to be held down. Myself, if the differential is to be locked out the majority of the time, why pay the premium for a feature that isn't used much? The remote axle lock is a much better choice for such usage, but lacks a true differential drive. Hence the new automatic differential. This is available on all non-track Pros and the ST1130DLE Deluxe. It is very slick operationally.

Also, the new 2007/2008 units have a dual belt auger drive (all Deluxes and Pros). This dual belt drive provides that the unit will likely never require an auger belt adjustment. While this isn't really a big deal for some, there is a majority that have no interest in maintenance.

For the nearly same money you might be able to get into a ST1130DLE Deluxe (handwarmers, automatic differential, 11hp).

Note both the automatic differential and dual belt drive are available as accessories should you purchase a unit that has neither or simply wish to upgrade (926,XXX units only). If you want part numbers and costs PM me and I'll see what I can do. I don't believe these accessory kits are created yet, but they should be on Monday.

PK

1st thing, Im still keeping my Pro model. This smaller unit if for my fater, replacing a 1970 Vintage ariens, that still kicks butt, and runs better than some of todays cheaper brands.

As I understand it, you must squeeze the trigger to lock the two wheels together. Thats what im looking for. In 3 years with my pro, and decades with the old unit, ive used the wheel hub lock maybe 10 times, usually for the worst blizzards. Justr want it too steer easily, and not use those pins that always are tough to work with in the snow.

I understand the 08 model has a nicer diff, but want to keep the price down, and really dont like the width over 26". A few inches makes a huge difference in storage and moving around parked cars. The 824E is too basic. 1130DLE is too large.

Snowman

Thanks for the info, especially on the tracked differentials. Its nice to here some of the technical reasons as opposed to the marketing descriptions

Are there any differences in the speeds at which the tracked versus wheeled versions travel? I.E. If I'm in 6th on a tracked version am I running at about the same speed as the wheeled version?

If I read the descriptions correctly the Pro line uses the Tecumseh OHV while the tracked versions use the B&S OHV.  Are the noise levels that different when comparing OHV to OHV? Are there any other significant differences in the engines? I would think that both are used in the same venues since they're both "Pro" although I suppose you can argue that the wheeled ones are more likely to be bought by non-commercial users who just want the best.

Thanks again for your input, I find it very enlightening.

Nibbler,

Good question. The tracked models are 40% slower. This was more to accomodate a very low first gear more than anything. This is the most important gear for a track drive model.

Yeah, even OHV for OHV the Briggs is 50% quieter.

PK

So the B&S is 3db less than the Tecumseh OHV. How come we don't have B&S on the Pro models? Aren't they used in the same venues by people who want to travel faster ( like me)?

BTW If you need anyone to test any or all of the new beasts my rates are reasonable.

Snowmann wrote:

Hi Paul, I have a 2004/2005 11528LE (926 chassis). Would either of these accessory kits work on my older model?

Chris

CFoote wrote:
The 926,XXX series chassis was new in 2005/2006. What is your model number (on the lest side of the frame)? If it is a 924,XXX model, then these will not fit, if it is a 926,XXX then yes.

Snowmann wrote:

I'm sorry, you are right, it's a 924,XXX model. Shucks! Oh well, thank you for responding anyway.

Chris